Zalman CNPS7700......... Very disappointed

Cooling Processors quietly

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Stew
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Zalman CNPS7700......... Very disappointed

Post by Stew » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:44 pm

I've just bought the afore mentioned fan for my cpu and am very disappointed with the results. I was under the impression that this fan would be all but inaudible in my antec case having listened to my friend's machine which is almost identical to mine.

It seems to make a low 'growling' sound for want of a better description. I was expecting to hear 'air'flow' noise but not any 'mechanical' type sounds.

Was I mislead about this product or does it make a reasonable amount of noise? My friend has an identical case to me and the previous model of zalman 'sunflower' fitted and his PC is definately quiter than mine while idle?! The only other potential source of noice that differs to my friend's machine would be my gfx card but I know that is silent.

Could it be that my fan is faulty? I know Zalman have a good reputation for build quality so wouldn't have expected that?!

burcakb
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Post by burcakb » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:18 pm

I'll venture several guesses. I'm guessing that your friend has the 7000 not the 7700. The 7000 has a 92mm fan not 120mm.

Second question. Did you attach the fanmate and turn it all the way down? Without the fanmate on low, a 120mm fan makes a lot more noise than a 92mm

And a likely explanation: Zalman fans are ball bearing. Ball bearing fans have longer life but are louder than sleeve bearing fans we all love. For warranty reasons, I've yet to see a company offer its products with sleeve bearing fans (maybe with the exception of Nexus).

There is of course always the possibility that you got a bad one.

PS: I never heard the 7700 yet, so I'm just guessing.
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Stew
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Post by Stew » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:30 pm

My friend does have the 7000 with the smaller fan, but I was led to believe the 7700 with its larger fan could operate at a lower speed and was therefore quieter?!

I installed the fanmate and turned it all the way down, that's how I've been running it. The only thing I thought it might possibly be is an issue with my motherboard. I have an Asus K8V SE Deluxe, I thought there was perhaps a setting that was making the lowest fan-speed achievable higher than it could be.

If I turn on the q-fan feature on that regulates the fan speed according to cpu activity it does go slower than normal when the system is idle, but after a bit it stops turning completely!! This must be due to the fact that you are not supposed to use this facility along with a fanmate type device.
burcakb wrote:I'll venture several guesses. I'm guessing that your friend has the 7000 not the 7700. The 7000 has a 92mm fan not 120mm.

Second question. Did you attach the fanmate and turn it all the way down? Without the fanmate on low, a 120mm fan makes a lot more noise than a 92mm

And a likely explanation: Zalman fans are ball bearing. Ball bearing fans have longer life but are louder than sleeve bearing fans we all love. For warranty reasons, I've yet to see a company offer its products with sleeve bearing fans (maybe with the exception of Nexus).

There is of course always the possibility that you got a bad one.

PS: I never heard the 7700 yet, so I'm just guessing.

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Post by teejay » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:19 pm

The motherboard headers use PWM to regulate the fan speed and that can cause resonance effects within fans similar to the growling you described. I'm not sure if turning off Q-fan will completely stop your mobo from using PWM so I would hook up the fan to a regular power lead, using your fanmate and see if that helps.

If that works, you can run the rpm wire from the fan back to the motherboard header and still have monitoring options.
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Shaft0rz
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Post by Shaft0rz » Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:52 am

I have the 7700 on an a8v deluxe, in an antec slk3000b. With the fanmate turned down, it's all but inaudible. It's definitely below the noise floor of my room/system. Even at full speed, the noise I hear is air moving, with very little mechanical grumble to it. Is it attached securely? If you don't use the zalman backplate, it can be kind of loose on the cpu, which might generate more noise.

Edit: And I forgot to mention-- CPU temps stay around 23C with a 3200+ winchester, and max out around 28C. On the lowest fan speed.

Stew
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Post by Stew » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:28 am

I haven't used the baack plate as i thought it'd be fine with those studs that are already on the motherboard. I couldn't be arsed to dismantle my PC as I bought the zalman after I built the PC. It seems pretty secure though, it moves a little bit laterally if i twist it but it seems pretty secure otherwise. It doesn't sound like the noise would be coming from that but perhaps I'll fit the back plate and see if it makes any difference.

As you say I've read other reviews all of which see to say its inaudible effectively on the lowest speed so there must be something amis.
Shaft0rz wrote:I have the 7700 on an a8v deluxe, in an antec slk3000b. With the fanmate turned down, it's all but inaudible. It's definitely below the noise floor of my room/system. Even at full speed, the noise I hear is air moving, with very little mechanical grumble to it. Is it attached securely? If you don't use the zalman backplate, it can be kind of loose on the cpu, which might generate more noise.

Edit: And I forgot to mention-- CPU temps stay around 23C with a 3200+ winchester, and max out around 28C. On the lowest fan speed.

Shaft0rz
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Post by Shaft0rz » Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:25 am

I think if it moves laterally at all, it's not tight enough... That's what mine did at first, until I installed the zalman backplate. That might not be it, but it's my best guess... Hope it helps.

Currently my 7700 is missing a fan blade (long story....) so it's out of commision for now...

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Post by Skylined » Thu Dec 30, 2004 11:16 am

If you want something really silent you have to go with sleeve and not ball bearing.
But as it has already been said, ball bearing fans last longer.

A piece of advice, play a lilttle bit with your fanmate till you get a good balance between that noise and airflow noise. ;)

I have some 120x38 fans with ball bearings and if I drop too much the voltage they start making that kind of noise.

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Post by DGK » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:54 pm

I have the K8V Deluxe motherboard also, the backplate that comes with the zalman is different than the one that comes installed on the mb. I never tried to install the cooler on the asus backplate but I compared them after I took off the asus one. Also, with my 7000 I had to use two of the rubber space holders/washers to get a good tight fit even though the instructions indicated I only needed one. I connected mine directly to a PS header, never used the mb connections and have no complaints so far.
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Curvin
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Re: Zalman CNPS7700......... Very disappointed

Post by Curvin » Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:53 pm

Stew wrote:
It seems to make a low 'growling' sound for want of a better description. I was expecting to hear 'air'flow' noise but not any 'mechanical' type sounds.
!
Hey Stew,

That makes two of us :-)

I have experienced the exact same problem with the 7700 I purchased recently. ShaftOrz has reported that his does not suffer from the same behaviour, so it may well be we have a bad batch on our hands, I hope so !

I doubt motherboards, etc have anything to do with it, this is definately being generated by the fan itself. BTW: I'm using it on a P4P800, PIV 3.0.

Either way, I went back to my trusty 7000 AlCu... I'll be returning the 77000 ASAP

Very Disappointing !!!

jtcb
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Post by jtcb » Sat Jan 01, 2005 10:23 pm

Is it better to use Zalman's backplate or the motherboard's backplate? Which fits better?

Shaft0rz
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Post by Shaft0rz » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:30 am

Either I got really lucky, or I'm not as well attuned to the sounds... probably the latter :) . As I mentioned, a fin broke off of mine, so I'm probably going to work on taking off the zalman fan and using another, more quiet.

Another note- I do run the zalman at the lowest fanmate setting, if that makes a difference.

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Post by chiahaochang » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:04 pm

Shaft0rz wrote:As I mentioned, a fin broke off of mine, so I'm probably going to work on taking off the zalman fan and using another, more quiet.
How do you swap fans on the Zalman? I can see how to take the fan off the CNPS-7xxx. Do you have to cut apart the housing on a replacement fan?
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Post by Tephras » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:23 pm

chiahaochang wrote:Do you have to cut apart the housing on a replacement fan?
Yes, that's what you'll need to do. There is a thread in the forum concerning this - search and thou shall find.

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Post by davidstone28 » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:39 pm

Zalman fans aren't particularly quiet in my view, even at the lowest fanmate setting (though I have to say that I haven't tried the 7700).

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Post by vapb400 » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:36 pm

wierd my 7700 fin broke too, my 4 y/o sister stuck an action figure in it :x

I sent a repair request to Zalman, waiting for a reply. If it costs >15$ to fix it I might just throw a Nexus or Panaflo in there (would the nexus work?)

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Post by teejay » Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:54 pm

Check the review on the main site: it works like a charm with a Nexus...
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Post by StarfishChris » Tue Jan 18, 2005 1:53 am

Side topic when installing a HS similar to the 7000: how did you manage to remove the backplate on your K8V SE Deluxe? Mine was stuck on and couldn't get it off, so I had to cut the nipples and screws a little shorter to make it fit. It's firmly in place, but cutting the stuff was an inconvenience I could've done without.

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Post by Baker » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:16 am

Just to add my experience to the mix, I would agree that at the lowest fanmate setting it's not quiet enough... that low grumbling sound is fairly loud.

However, I hooked my fanmate into a zalman splitter 5V output, and put the fanmate dial at about 50%, and it is very very quiet now. I'd guess I'm feeding it 2.5 to 4 volts (no measurement tool available). It has no issues starting up at all, so apparently the fan doesn't mind such low voltage.

The best part is, even with the fan spinning so low my CPU temp has never went past 46C, even while leaving it running Counter-Strike:Source all night long.

Here's my setup (at least the parts that need to be quiet):

Athlon64 (90nm) 3000+ @ 2295 MHz (9x255)
Asus A8V rev. 2 (VDimm=2.8, memory timing on Auto, Cool 'N' Quiet enabled)
2x512MB Corsair XMS PC3200
BFG Geforce 6800 GT @ 398 MHz core, 1.04 GHz mem, w/Arctic Cooling silencer 5
Samsung Spinpoint 160 GB (PATA), mounted on sorbothane
Antec 3000B (That tri-cool 120mm is pretty darn quiet!)
Antec Phantom 350W

Far and away the loudest thing in my system is the Arctic Cooling NV Silencer 5. I have it off on a fanmate at about the lowest setting, but I had some video stability problems. I had to lower my overclock on the video card in order for it to run stably. I wish I could replace the fan on that thing...

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Post by Baker » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:19 am

StarfishChris wrote:Side topic when installing a HS similar to the 7000: how did you manage to remove the backplate on your K8V SE Deluxe? Mine was stuck on and couldn't get it off, so I had to cut the nipples and screws a little shorter to make it fit. It's firmly in place, but cutting the stuff was an inconvenience I could've done without.
Oh yeah, removing the backplate from the A8V was a real pain. I had to use a small screwdriver and very gently (and gradually) remove the thing from the back. I really didn't think it was going to come off for a while there.

I forget where, but I saw a suggestion to use a hair dryer to head up the glue attaching the thing and then it peels off nicely, but I didn't have one available at the time.

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Post by direavenger » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:26 am

My CNPS 7700 is a real pain too. Whenever I undervolt it (PWM or direct), it makes an awful buzzing noise. But it is definately not quiet when running at 12V. I'd replace the fan if mine wasn't vertically mounted :(

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Post by vapb400 » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:12 pm

direavenger wrote:My CNPS 7700 is a real pain too. Whenever I undervolt it (PWM or direct), it makes an awful buzzing noise. But it is definately not quiet when running at 12V. I'd replace the fan if mine wasn't vertically mounted :(
what does vertically mounted have to do w/ it? Mine is vertically mounted in my BQE3700, will that not work?

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Post by wim » Tue Jan 18, 2005 7:00 pm

it doesn't really have anything to do with it. some people are unsure of the fanswap ...maybe scared of the fan whizzing off and decapitating someone.
mine (7000) has been vertically mounted with a bit of tape for yonks now (and it even bakes the sticky tape at 60C during divX encodes in the summertime). no sign of any problem and i've never heard of a fan falling off zalmans anywhere on the forums. the fear is, imo, thus far ungrounded..

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Post by direavenger » Tue Jan 18, 2005 9:07 pm

I was referring to this article:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article209-page5.html

where it states (at the bottom of the page) that the 7700 Fan mod is done with double sided tape, and is not suitable for vertical mounts. I was unaware of any other way to swap fans on it, though I must admit that I wasn't adventurous enough to try to pick apart my 7700...kind of a big investment to mess up :wink:


EDIT: What tape did you use, wim?
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Post by wim » Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:07 am

ah yes, i also saw where the article said it was not suitable. i think whichever author wrote that part may be jumping the gun?

i'm not sure 'what' tape i used is...it's just some double sided tape i found lying around the house :-) but you can see some pictures of it where i pimp the fanswap in this thread

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Post by direavenger » Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:33 am

nice, I think I'll give that a try this weekend with a Yate Loon D12SL-12 that I just picked up for cheap from http://www.isellsurplus.com

Thanks for the info, wim!
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Post by JanW » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:33 am

I would be careful about using double sided tape for this. It might just work (and for wim it appearently does), but I'm not sure there really is a way of knowing beforehand if the tape is up to the task on the long run, under high temperatures.
direavenger wrote:I was unaware of any other way to swap fans on it...
I have swapped the fan on my Z7000 for a 92mm Nexus, just cutting the new fan off the frame and drilling holes (1.5mm IIRC) in what I left of two of the plastic rods between frame and fan hub (don't know what to call those...). I then hardmounted my Nexus to the fan bracket using the original screws from the Zalman, but others have done a more sophisticated job (and taken pictures!): Of course all of this is assuming that the 7700 can be mounted the same way as the 7000.
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Post by Shaft0rz » Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:58 am

So by a freak accident and my own impatience, I have 2 7700's laying around. I also have 2 nexus 120mm fans arriving soon... I will be attempting a fan swap to the nexus, using double sided foam tape, in a vertically mounted case.

I will try to borrow a digital camera and get some pics, and let you guys know how it goes.

Peter L.

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Post by Ralf Hutter » Wed Jan 19, 2005 9:50 am

wim wrote:ah yes, i also saw where the article said it was not suitable. i think whichever author wrote that part may be jumping the gun?
I don't.

I'd be real careful about taping the fan to the bracket. Can you imagine what sort of damage it could do to your hardware if (or when) the glue gives up and it falls onto your vidcard?

My experience with typical "household" types of adhesives shows that they tend not to work too well in warm/hot, dry conditions. The glue seems to dry out and turn to dust, losing it's adhesive characteristics in the process. YMMV though!
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Post by Shaft0rz » Wed Jan 19, 2005 12:04 pm

I looked up the data sheet for some 3m double-sided foam tape (i don't know if this link will work http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs ... xEbMujkN7-).
temperature does not seem to be a problem. The long-term temperature resistance is rated at 70C, which no heatsink should be seeing long term (and 82C short-term). Additionally, the static shear, which seems most applicable for holding a fan on, is 500g for a week t 49C with only 0.5in square. With proper application, I think that number would be much much much much higher.

I'm not sure if static shear or peel adhesion would be most applicable for this, but I'm pretty sure that double sided tape could work pretty well.

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