P4 550 3.4GHz Running Too Hot, Looking For A Better Solution

Cooling Processors quietly

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schu
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P4 550 3.4GHz Running Too Hot, Looking For A Better Solution

Post by schu » Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:46 am

I'm running a P4 550 (3.4 GHz) on an Intel 915PBL motherboard with a Zalman CNPS7000B-ALCU cooler using Arctic Silver Ceramique. The cpu fan is turned up to its maximum speed on the control pod that comes with it and shows a reading of 2327RPM in the Intel hardware monitor program. It's all housed in an Antec P160 case with a Antec 120mm fan in the front and an Antec 120mm fan in the back with an Antec 480W power supply. The case fans are not connected to a fanbus, they are connected to the "fan only" connectors on my Antec power supply.

The case temps are fine but the processor is running between 50-53c with WinXP loaded, around 60c with some load, and around 69-71c if I run Seti@Home maxing out the CPU at 100%.

The other two motherboard temp sensors show 35c and the sensor on the video card (BFG 6800GT OC PCI-E) is around 63c.


As an experiement I ran Seti and I watched the temp go from 54C to 71C in 2 minutes. The two system zone temps went from 35C to 40C and my temp probes on the case read 41 near the processor and 31 by the video card. The processor fan did not change its speed, it stayed around 2327RPM. Turning SETI off sent the temps back to normal in about 1 minute. The power supply fan did ramp up when the temp went up, but the two 120mm case fans aren't running through the motherboard so I'm not sure if they changed speed.


It's no hotter than 70F in my room... I have an IR temp reader from work and I checked around the intake and it reads 69F even when the heating vent in my room was blowing. The vent is in the ceiling and is not by the computer (the computer is by the window so it's a little cooler near it).


The original thread I posted in is here:
http://www.maximumpc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12581

I posted this message here mainly for a second opinion and to get more advice on my problem.


Anyway, now I'm looking for a new/better cooling solution so I'd like advice on the best heatsink/fan combo for a P4 550 3.4GHz. I'd like it to be at least as quiet as a Zalman with its fan set to max speed...

sthayashi
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Post by sthayashi » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:01 pm

Look into using the harware mentioned in this article.

schu
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Post by schu » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:15 pm

Just a few questions...

A) Will the XP-120 fit on this motherboard:

Specs
http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bl/index.htm

Giant Pic
http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bl ... PBL_lg.jpg


B) What is the best way to throttle the fan down to 5v? Do I need a fanbus to do that, and if so, which one do you recommend?


Thanks....

direavenger
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Post by direavenger » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:22 pm

Ducting your CPU might be another viable option. Either cut a hole in the side of your case, or build an air channel from the front intake to your CPU. If the other temps in your case are ok, this should help.

sthayashi
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Post by sthayashi » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:46 pm

schu wrote:Just a few questions...

A) Will the XP-120 fit on this motherboard:

Specs
http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bl/index.htm

Giant Pic
http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/bl ... PBL_lg.jpg


B) What is the best way to throttle the fan down to 5v? Do I need a fanbus to do that, and if so, which one do you recommend?


Thanks....
a) Yes (you could have saved me the trouble of looking on the manufacturer's site for that information. Sorry, but we're trying to encourage that sort of thing).

b) If you have a 3-pin fan, I'd suggest using the fanmate that came with your Zalman-7000.

schu
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Post by schu » Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:52 pm

sthayashi wrote:a) Yes (you could have saved me the trouble of looking on the manufacturer's site for that information. Sorry, but we're trying to encourage that sort of thing).
:) sorry, didn't see it on their standard compatibility list so wanted to make sure

frankgehry
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P4

Post by frankgehry » Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:13 pm

schu,

Did you read the article on the P4 570? I've haven't done a lot of testing with cpburn becasue my temps at idle and light use have been around 30 and when I have run 2xcpburn I get around 50. Of course I've always heard that asus boards give low numbers.

I would undervolt. Search for articles here.
Then I would get an xp-120.

You should be able to find the intel board on the thermalright web site. I can't believe it wouldn't fit intel. The other thing you can do is google xp-120 Intel model of your board. That's how I found a review of my board and xp-120. I can't really tell if it would fit by looking at the pictures. Your fans should be able to keep things cool running at < 1000 rpm since your case supposed to have really good cooling. - FG

I don't know too much about the zalman, but the xp-120 will let you change fans easily and it works really good.

The board has a lot of space around the cpu mount with low capacitors and a lot of distance to the memory banks so I think it should fit . Don't let anyone talk you into getting an xp-90 because you want a 120mm fan solution.

schu
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Post by schu » Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:06 pm

The link sthayashi posted actually indicates that it should be compatible...

What fan would you suggest for the XP-120 to keep the noise down?

Would it be worth it for me to install a fanbus?

Thanks for all the help :)

frankgehry
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fans

Post by frankgehry » Tue Mar 01, 2005 4:00 pm

S,

I would get something that can put out more air than a nexus, but is almost as quiet like a globe or tek-chain. The only place I know of to get a globe is coolcases.com and you can get a tek-chain at mnpctech.com.

A fan controller makes experimenting to find the best speeds a lot easier plus they don't really cost much. You probably want to let your mainboard control the cpu fan. Your antec probably has a speed sensor that connects to your mb. The mb reads the psu fan speed and adjusts the cpu fan. The tek chain has a built in manual speed control so you can fine tune speed. - FG

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... t=tekchain

schu
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Post by schu » Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:51 am

I think I'm going to go ahead and get the XP-120 and the Tek-Chain fan and see where that gets me...

If that works I might experiment with some different case fans to see if I can get the noise down more and still maintain a decent temperature...

What do you guys think of the Honeywell PCM45 Thermal Interface Pads?
http://www.ajigo-store.com/chomt7therin.html

I had a guy in another forum mention them and they sounded interesting:
Also, I would consider getting a phase change thermal interface. Best is if you can get hold of a piece of Honeywell PCM45. The advantage is that it applies a perfectly uniform layer that is the ideal thickness of the exact right material that Intel designed around. The are just over $1 each and one postage stamp is the cost of shipping up to 100 of them. http://www.ajigo-store.com/chomt7therin.html

All you do is lay them on the sink, or the chips heat spreader, put uniform pressure on it (I use the sink for that), wait an hour for it to adhere to the metal, then peel off the backing material. Don't rub it or it will stick to the backing material and you start over....

I'm ready for the inevitable chorus of "AS5 rocks," and I've used Arctic Silver since AS1 came out. But, my own comparisons show that Honeywell PCM45 will deliver the same temperature or lower than AS5 when both are correctly applied, but it's much easier to goober up AS5 just as you may have the Ceramique. With the PCM45 you know you have it perfect every time out. We call that verifiable qauality. The phase change material will also last much longer, not that most of us will still own our computers long enough to care.

schu
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Post by schu » Sat Mar 12, 2005 9:17 pm

Ok, I have the XP120 installed with the Tek-Chain fan and it seems to have cooled down quite a bit... At 1000RPM I can maintain 44C idle, if I turn the fan up a bit I can get it down lower... The highest temp the CPU hits when running SETI (100% CPU usage) is 54C (and once again, it's lower if I turn the fan up a bit)...

I also moved my two Antec fans over to regular power supply connectors, but the fan noise has gotten louder, so I ordered two more Tek-Chains for the front and back...

Now I just want to balance the noise and temperatures so I had a few questions:

1) What RPM do you think I should run the case fans and the fan on the CPU at?

2) What is a decent temp for a 3.4 GHz Prescott to idle at?

3) What's the max it should hit at 100% CPU usage?


Thanks for all the help...

Tibors
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Post by Tibors » Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:05 pm

1) What RPM do you think I should run the case fans and the fan on the CPU at?
You can't theorize this up front. The only way to find out is experiment.

2) What is a decent temp for a 3.4 GHz Prescott to idle at?
Don't know. My procs never idle. I run Folding@Home. Even if I didn't, I don't think this temp is important.

3) What's the max it should hit at 100% CPU usage?
Install a program called Throttlewatch. Then push the CPU (e.g. with CPUburn) to somewhere above 70°C, until you see that the CPU starts throttling. Then you now it is too hot. (No damage can be done this way as the chip protects itself against overheating.)

Now set your cooling a bit better as when it got too hot. Lastly run Prime95 for 24 hours to see if the system is stable. Oh, and don't forget to leave some headroom for hot summer days.

burcakb
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Post by burcakb » Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:41 pm

My experience has been that Folding@Home produces just about the highest consistent load simulating my use. (read, not highest achievable but highest you're likely to encounter during normal daily use) If you don't have a totally passive graphics card, I doubt you'll ever exceed that temp, even when gaming heavily.

So if you adjust your CPU fan that FAH temps stay just below throttle threshold (I remember this being 70C?), you should be fine. Idle? Why idle? Run Folding@Home :)

Interesting note on the ajigo. I know those are as good as Arctic Silver but my experience has been that they don't last as long whereas that guy claims the opposite. Personally I find thermal pads too prone to misinstallation. Applying even pressure when mounting is something I can never manage :) Especially with something in the XP90/120 series.

frankgehry
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getting better

Post by frankgehry » Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:45 pm

S,

It sounds like things are getting alot better. My cpu idles at about 32C, but asus boards typically under report cpu temps plus I usually have the side off as I'm always changing things, and as Tibors said its probably not that important.

After running 2xcpburn for 30 - 45 mins. cpu temps will be about 50-52. My cpu fan is controlled by the mainboard but when I check it its usually around 900 rpm. If you get a few more tek-chains you should be able to adjust everything and if you still need more cooling you can add a side port over the cpu or try another mod. There are probably some p160's in the user gallery that have addressed different cooling problems. - FG

schu
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Post by schu » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:47 am

I guess the only other thing I was thinking about adding was a fan controller... Does anyone have any recommendations? I was looking at the Hardcano13, but I'm not entirely sold on it...

I was also wondering where exactly the temp probes that come with most of these fan controllers should be put and how they should be mounted... Obviously you can't put the probe between the CPU and the heatsink so where do you put it to get a reliable temperature?

nici
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Post by nici » Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:27 am

schu wrote:
I was also wondering where exactly the temp probes that come with most of these fan controllers should be put and how they should be mounted... Obviously you can't put the probe between the CPU and the heatsink so where do you put it to get a reliable temperature?
I have an idea wich may sound daft but should work, drill a few very small holes in the side of the heatsink bottom so you get a little slot in the base, then fill the hole with thermal goop and insert the probe :D I think this should get you pretty accurate readings if your probe is good quality. I dont need to do this though so i have not bothered, im happy when smartguardian reports idle temp as 30c and load temp as 35c 8) 3,5k+ Winnie stock voltage.

schu
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Post by schu » Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:15 am

Ideally, I wish the fan controllers came with a pass through connector, so you could connect your fans to the fan headers on the motherboard, and pass them through to the fan controller, that way the motherboard could still monitor fan speeds as well but the controller could adjust the speed... Wonder if that would even work..

frankgehry
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fan controller suggestions

Post by frankgehry » Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:01 pm

S,

If you are planning to get a fan controller you should consider a t-balancer. It cost about $100, which is a lot, but when you consider that you can get both digital and analog temp sensors (www.mcubed-tech.com), expansion modules with more sensors, create your own fan speed profiles with on screen software and lots of other fun things to play with its a good deal. I started with a hardcano 13 which I still use to double check the TBAL readouts, but you will quickly run into a dead end with most controllers. You may be happy with a couple of fanmates but if you dont want to be limited look at the TBAL. It is one of those products like the xp-120 that's really worth what you pay for. My hardcano cost $65 and there is no comparison. -FG

I have been testing the TBAL for several weeks now and I am convinced it is stable and ready to install permanently. Since in runs off of a usb port it does have the capability to shutdown you system if a fan locks up or the cpu gets too hot.

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