Scythe Ninja Rev B and Asus P5B-Deluxe don't play well

Cooling Processors quietly

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pandb
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Post by pandb » Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:18 am

The Scythe recommended method of rotating the mounting clip by 90 degrees to avoid the capacitors does not work for the P5B. It all just depends on the manufacturing tolerance on your mobo.

I took the effort last night to take the ninja out of my case and to check how I have mounted it. The mounting clip is symmetrical so as predicted, changing the mounting by 90 degrees make no difference. Still hits the capacitors. Surely scythe can see that!

If clip always touches the capacitors then you might want it to mount the non-recommended way. The ninja copper base is non-symmetrical. You can make the extended base (and where the screws fastening the clip onto the heatsink) to be facing the further of the two rows of capacitors. Although the mount still touches the capacitors, the base might be in a slightly better contact with the cpu. I have seen 3 degrees drop since the remount and the AS5 has yet to cure.

p.s. to see how you have mounted the ninja without taking it off - if the heatsink (attached to copper base) is allowing air to flow towards your ports i.e. mouse, kb, etc then you have mounted the recommended way.

icepik
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Post by icepik » Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:40 am

Just thought I'd chime in. I installed a Scythe Ninja rev. B last night and it worked with no modding.

My parts are e6300 and Asus P5B-E. The mounting bracket cleared the capacitors on the mobo by a few millimeters. I was able to slide a couple of sheets of paper between the mounted heatsink bracket and the capacitors. I'll post pics later tonight.
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nick705
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Post by nick705 » Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:11 pm

pandb wrote:The Scythe recommended method of rotating the mounting clip by 90 degrees to avoid the capacitors does not work for the P5B. It all just depends on the manufacturing tolerance on your mobo.

I took the effort last night to take the ninja out of my case and to check how I have mounted it. The mounting clip is symmetrical so as predicted, changing the mounting by 90 degrees make no difference. Still hits the capacitors. Surely scythe can see that!
I'm entirely convinced that you're right, and it's purely luck of the draw as to whether the Ninja will just fit on your particular mobo (or not).

The last email I received from Scythe indicated that they're working on another modification of the mounting clip which will be released (according to them) in early 2007, so they clearly acknowledge there's a problem, notwithstanding their advice to rotate the bracket.

I suppose some might say it's no big deal, given it's apparently only a few seconds' work with a pair of tinsnips to fix the problem, but at the end of the day you've paid for the product sold as compatible with LGA775 mobos, and you really shouldn't *have* to do it...

panda-R
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Post by panda-R » Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:58 pm

DOH... I ordered a Scythe ninja a few days ago, and i'm pretty much settled on getting a P5B-deluxe...

well hope i don't get a bad one, will post results when everything is in.

panda-R
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Post by panda-R » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:10 am

confirmed, another Scythe Ninja + P5B Deluxe don't play well.

EDIT:

OOPS i may have jumped the gun a little... infact my Scythe ninja and P5B Deluxe get along just fine. pictures to come!
Last edited by panda-R on Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

paapaa
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Post by paapaa » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:28 am

Does it help to turn the mounting plate 90 degrees?

panda-R
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Post by panda-R » Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:22 pm

heres a pic of my Ninja on a P5B Deluxe. theres no touching and i'm pretty sure it's tight although one of those pushpins looks otherwise.

Image

Redwoood
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Post by Redwoood » Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:52 pm

On my P5b-Deluxe, the ninja bracket touched the capacitors no matter how I turned it. It still seemed to clamp down pretty tight.
I had a bad feeling about all of this so I filed some thickness off of the bracket when I mounted it the first time.
I still had a bad feeling so I took a dremel and cut away the part that was touching, that was.. uh.. the third time I mounted this thing ;)

Just out of curiosity, what kind of temperatures are you guys getting with your set-up ?

I have my 6400 oc'ed to 3.2 GHz at 1.425v vcore set (and 1.37v real) and am getting temperatures of around 57 C when running orthos.
ETA: Temperature readings from TAT.

Redwoood

allistar.m
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Post by allistar.m » Sun Feb 25, 2007 5:48 pm

Out of interest, did you install a fan on the northbridge heatsink after installing the Ninja?

I'm running a P5B deluxe with an Intel QX6700 and the Ninja Plus (rev B). I also installed the 120mm fan onto the Ninja.

I'm concerned that the northbridge heatsink isn't getting adequate cooling now, and the fan for it specifically states not to use it if the CPU is actively cooled.

shawn122
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Post by shawn122 » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:21 pm

I have the ASUS p5B-deluxe wifi edition plue the Ninja Scythe (rev b)
e6600 @ 2.4 Ghz (no over clock)

I had no problems installing the heatsink with the motherboard still attached to my case. I am running this heatsink in passive mode so no fan is attached.

My temps under full load is around 60 degrees--mind you this was after running Orthos for 2 hours. My case is the p180 which makes a huge difference in cooling as the two case fans do a very good job in keeping everything cool. In fact I have those two fans revved down to about 650 RPM and my temps at idle are 36-37 and 60 at full load. System temps are at 35 degerees as I have a fan attached to the inside of the upper HDD case blowing directly on my motherboard. That fan is also undervolted and spins at about 700 RPM.

If I used the attached fan to the Ninja, I am sure I can bring down my cpu temps even more. I mounted the heatsink with no probs except for a scratch on my hands :D Those fins are sharp!

All in all, this heatsink works VERY well and am very pleased with the silence and cooling I am able to achieve. In fact the most noise now in my room is coming from my fluoresecnt lights and the darn buzzing!
http://www.shawnbinda.com

allistar.m
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Post by allistar.m » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:31 pm

I agree with the silence, I can hear one of my LCDs hum.

Under no load (in the BIOS and reported by lm_sensors) the CPU sits at about 40 deg (c). I stressed a few of th cores (3 at 100%) and the temperature rose to 60 deg. The Ninja heatsink felt quite hot to touch. As soon as I opened the case the temperature dropped to about 55. This implies to me that the hot air isn't getting out of the case fast enough.

I have no case fan, just the Ninja fan, the PSU fan and a fan on each of my nVidia graphics cards. I think I'll install a quiet 120mm case fan blowing the air out of the case. Would you agree with this approach?

I'm concerned about the northbridge heatsink, under load it felt quite hot.

Redwoood
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Post by Redwoood » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:50 am

Well, I overclock and overvolt the northbridge, so it runs quite hot.

But, if you take the Ninja fan and slide it down and towards the motherboard a little such that some of its airflow runs over the nb heatsink, everything's ok.

I have an additional fan hanging off my drive cage to add more directed air flow to memory , nb, and video card, but I don't think it's necessary.

btw, of course you need to remove this stupid Asus sticker from the heatsink. What where they thinking ??

Redwoood

thejamppa
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Post by thejamppa » Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:58 am

allistar.m wrote:I agree with the silence, I can hear one of my LCDs hum.

Under no load (in the BIOS and reported by lm_sensors) the CPU sits at about 40 deg (c). I stressed a few of th cores (3 at 100%) and the temperature rose to 60 deg. The Ninja heatsink felt quite hot to touch. As soon as I opened the case the temperature dropped to about 55. This implies to me that the hot air isn't getting out of the case fast enough.

I have no case fan, just the Ninja fan, the PSU fan and a fan on each of my nVidia graphics cards. I think I'll install a quiet 120mm case fan blowing the air out of the case. Would you agree with this approach?

I'm concerned about the northbridge heatsink, under load it felt quite hot.
Get Exhaust fan. I think Exhaust fan is one of the critical and over looked things in silent computing, when you're air cooling. I mean undervolted Noctua 120mm or 120mm Nexus ads good air flow without adding noise that much that you would actually here the fan. That should drop your overal temperatures over 7 degrees celsius.

Also it would cool off your north birdge significantly. I mean Case airflow is there for reason. Intake is optional, but I don't think Exhaust is optional fan if you want to run your hardware cooler and more stable. I personally suggest using undervolted exhaust fan even with Water cooling, if you do not have PSU helping case ventilation.

I disabled my exhaust fan while I had Active Ninja, my CPU temps rose nearly 10 degrees Celsius during night it was on idle.
If seeing is believing, how can blind person believe in anything?
Maturity is just not experience in life but also ability to make compromises.

idiotekniQues
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Post by idiotekniQues » Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:01 pm

i added a fourth fan to my p180 - a 120mm in front of the middle hard drive cage.

i decided to turn it off after a few weeks to see if i noticed any difference in noise.

what i did notice is absolutely no difference in temps. what made a difference in my temps is kicking up the rpm's of the exhaust fans.
e6400, 2x 1gb ocz plat. pc6400, asus P5N-E SLI, 1950pro, P180, Corsair HX 620, Audigy 2 ZS, 4x WD hd, scythe ninja & TT NB Cooler.

allistar.m
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Post by allistar.m » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:28 pm

In reply to Redwood: The Ninja fan cannot be moved down very far as it's quite close to the installed memory (all 4 banks are full). There's less than 5mm gap between fan bottom and memory top.

I'll try and find a quiet 120mm fan to exhaust air out of the back of the case.

I'm surprises how quickly the CPU temperature drop when load stops. E.g. when compiling firefox, the temp rises to about 60 deg (c), when the compile stops it drops almost immediately to about 42 deg. Under no load it sits at about 35 deg. Does this sound normal for a QX6700 cooled by an Ninja plus with fan?

Once I can find a quiet enough case fan (any recommendations?) I'll install it and see what it does for temps.

allistar.m
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Post by allistar.m » Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:34 pm

Do you think an 800rpm 120mm exhaust fan will move the heat sufficiently? I've found one which is 16dBA - the quietest I can find, here:

http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecific ... mID=349586

800rpm is quite a bit slower than others, but being 120mm it should shift enough air. Do you agree?

idiotekniQues
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Post by idiotekniQues » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:23 pm

allistar.m wrote:Do you think an 800rpm 120mm exhaust fan will move the heat sufficiently? I've found one which is 16dBA - the quietest I can find, here:

http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecific ... mID=349586

800rpm is quite a bit slower than others, but being 120mm it should shift enough air. Do you agree?
well i was not very happy with my ninja temps at only 1.34volts too.

i had the scythe flex on the ninja and both antec tri-cools on low exhausting via the rear and the top. i am quite certain the antec on low is above 1000rpm

at 3.2ghz on load i would break 65c which is not for me. simply putting the fans on medium knocked down my temps by 6-9c. i put the scythe s-flex on the top exhaust blow hole and put the antec tri-cool on the ninja - this way the quieter fan is blowing noise right out the top, not the noisier one.

if you are going to OC that doesnt sound like enough pull for the exhaust.
e6400, 2x 1gb ocz plat. pc6400, asus P5N-E SLI, 1950pro, P180, Corsair HX 620, Audigy 2 ZS, 4x WD hd, scythe ninja & TT NB Cooler.

allistar.m
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Post by allistar.m » Mon Feb 26, 2007 3:33 pm

Thanks - I'll look for a faster fan. I have seen some in the 24dBA range. I'm unsure how noisy that actually is. My case is a "silent" case, with foam padding inside it, but the exhaust fan will be blowing straight out the back, so if anything will make a noise this fan will.

thejamppa
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Post by thejamppa » Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:38 pm

allistar.m wrote:Do you think an 800rpm 120mm exhaust fan will move the heat sufficiently? I've found one which is 16dBA - the quietest I can find, here:

http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecific ... mID=349586



800rpm is quite a bit slower than others, but being 120mm it should shift enough air. Do you agree?
800 rpm fan's effectiveness in cooling depends on manufactor. For instance scrthes S-Flex 800 RPM moves less air than Noctua's 800 RPM model. S-flex was around 32 CFM according SPCR measurements ~20 dBA ( @ 12v)while Noctua was around 41 CFM ~ dBA ( @ 12v ) when Nexus around same speed was 35 CFM ~19 dBA ( @ 9v )

What comes to 16 dBA ever cool markets, you're lucky if that is around 24 to 26 dBA For instance TT Big Typhoons stock fan was rated 16 dBA while its true noise was around 25 dBA ( still very quiet ) Noctua NF-S12 1200 RPM is rated 17 dBA when its closer 25 dBA ( still quiet ) And Noctua NF-S12 800 rpm is rated 7 dBA when its closer to 20 dBA (still virtually silent ). But you should not really believe what manufactors say. Nexus is however exception. They bran 120mm real silent case fan 22,8 dBA and acoustic measurements say its true.

Since many here use Nexus under volted dBA-CFM ratio favours Noctua. I personally have used all 3 models and I never really got Nexuses as silent as I would have wanted while keeping decent flow. Noctua NF-S12 800 RPM did that without even undervolting, which I am really impressed.
If seeing is believing, how can blind person believe in anything?
Maturity is just not experience in life but also ability to make compromises.

idiotekniQues
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Post by idiotekniQues » Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:48 pm

allistar.m wrote:Thanks - I'll look for a faster fan. I have seen some in the 24dBA range. I'm unsure how noisy that actually is. My case is a "silent" case, with foam padding inside it, but the exhaust fan will be blowing straight out the back, so if anything will make a noise this fan will.
you can try it. but if it doesnt cool enough you just have to buy another.

jab-tech sells yate loons for a good price if i remember right.
e6400, 2x 1gb ocz plat. pc6400, asus P5N-E SLI, 1950pro, P180, Corsair HX 620, Audigy 2 ZS, 4x WD hd, scythe ninja & TT NB Cooler.

Redwoood
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Post by Redwoood » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:06 am

@allstar:

when I say 'down', I mean a downwards motion of the fan towards the ground in a solo tower case.
For that, the fan has to be installed vertically, ie blowing air through the ninja which is then pulled out by the exhaust.

Of course, if you have all your memory banks filled, the fan would cool the upper part of the ninja mostly (the part towards you).
You have to experiment with how much air flow you can still get over the northbridge then, but I suspect it's not much.;)

Most important thing is to get the stickers off anyway

continuum
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Post by continuum » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:34 pm

Hmm. I've used both the Ninja and the Ninja Rev B on Asus P5B Deluxe boards, and they fit fine on all six MB's I've tried.

Must be luck of the draw, plus the original Ninja fits better...

CA_Steve
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Post by CA_Steve » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:00 pm

For my Ninja Rev B and P5B-E build this past weekend - I had to dremel a bit of metal off of the Ninja bracket to clear the caps. Not a big deal.

Noochboy
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Post by Noochboy » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:06 am

Hi,

I have some question about the Ninja rev B and the P5 Deluxe.

I have a Intel C2 Duo E4300 now running at 3,1 Ghz and a voltage of 1,38.

The idle temps re fine, it runs at about 36 (degrees celcius), but when getting high load from Prime95 it tops up to 81-84.

I ran Prime last night and my pc rebooted because of the high temps.

I'm actually disappointed of the temps I get, even with the Scythe mounted.

Are those temps the temps I should expect, or does the mounting need some tuning yet?

Edit: Just took my mobo out again and checked the mounting of the heatsicnk.

When I checked it I toicedd clearly that the mounting bracket was touching the components next to the socket. I took of the HSF and saw that at a big part of the core didn't even touch the heatsink.

I cut out the part of the bracket that touched the components and reapplied some paste and tada... My cpu runs 20!! degrees celsius cooler when running Orthos!!

that's encrideble, thanks for the hints in this thread guys ;)
Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 @ [color=DarkOrange]3,1 Ghz[/color] - 2Gb Corsair DDR2 XMS-6400 [/COLOR]
GeForce 7600GS Silent 512MB @ [color=DarkOrange]500 Mhz ~ 300 Mhz [/color]- ASUS P5B Deluxe - Corsair HX520 Watt Modular PSU

CA_Steve
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Post by CA_Steve » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:48 pm

My stock e4300 is running at 37C idle and 52/57C for Core 0/1 under Intel TAT - as well as running TAT on one core and Prime 95 on the other....as the case heats up, these temps creep toward 56/60C.

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