OCZ Vindicator review at anandtech

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:51 pm

I almost can't believe the poor quality of anandtech reviews. Once I considered it to be a quality site, but meh.

Here's the review.

Some quotes:
"When we asked OCZ if the Vindicator was just a relabeled Ninja Rev. B they shared with us that the Vindicator is built for them in the same factory as the Scythe cooler. However, OCZ said they did not have any agreement with Scythe and that the Vindicator is not just a rebadging."

"The SilenX IXTREMA 120 claims to provide the world's best noise-to-airflow ratio. The specifications certainly support that claim with an exceptional 14 dB-A noise level coupled with 72 CFM airflow. Perhaps even more remarkable is the rated watts of 1.92 which should be safe on almost any motherboard fan header."

"It is difficult to argue with the low noise or high output of the SilenX fan so the IXTREMA was used to see if higher fan output would improve the cooling and overclocking of the OCZ Vindicator. Results with a single stock OCZ fan and a single SilenX IXTREMA 120 are reported in all performance charts and graphs."

"We measured noise levels with the OCZ Vindicator with both stock and SilenX IXTREMA fans under both load and idle conditions. As might be expected with fans with noise ratings of 18.5 dB-A and 14 dB-A, the measured noise was below our system noise floor at both 6" and 24" positions above the open side of our system case.

There are virtually no power supplies that do not have a fan. While Zalman and a few others do make an expensive fanless power supply, we have not seen a fanless unit larger than 500W, or one that would be used for seriously overclocking a system. With that in mind the noise level of the system with all fans turned off except the power supply was measured. The power supply used for the cooling test bed was the OCZ PowerStream 520, which is one of the quieter of the high performance power supplies."

"The problem with overclocking, however, is the anemic output of the stock Vindicator fan. If you push overclocking with the Vindicator as far as it will go you end up with a stable overclock on our test bed of 3.80GHz. This is average to below average among the heatpipe tower coolers we have reviewed. Fortunately this problem can be corrected and the Vindicator is capable of much more. Replace the stock fan with the quiet (14 dB-A) and powerful (72 CFM) SilenX IXTREMA 120 and the Vindicator can overclock with the best."

I can't believe they take the specs as facts, even sadder is that Anandtech is a highly popular hardware site and some people are going to believe whatever they write...

EndoSteel · Post by **EndoSteel** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:08 am

I can't believe they take the specs as facts
Money make the world go round...

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:10 am

I totally agree with your sentiment, very depressing article to read. I like reading anandtech articles that are actually written by Anand himself, but some of his new staff are completely lacking in writing skills, technical knowledge, and testing methodology.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:20 am

merlin wrote:I totally agree with your sentiment, very depressing article to read. I like reading anandtech articles that are actually written by Anand himself, but some of his new staff are completely lacking in writing skills, technical knowledge, and testing methodology.

Well the author is no other the Wesley Fink, a highly respected man in the overclocking crowds.

It's just that the testing computers base noise level is so high, that imo it's totally pointless (and almost misleading) to even attemp to make any audio measurements, if they cannot differentiate the coolers/fans from another.

The way Wesley Fink wrote about the different fan specs (not just the SilenX), shows that he lacks in critical thinking. The way Anandtech does it's reviews makes it look like an extension of the marketing department of OCZ and some other brands...

Maybe he should just stop making audio measurements and just stick to what he knows: overclocking.

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:42 am

I have never heard of "wesley fink", but I will avoid anything he has ever written, he is obviously being paid to make those statements - therefore he is a fraud and a liar - and he can try to sue me if he wants to

Anandtech have been getting worse over the last fer years, and I fear for all of the newbie Anandtech readers who believe this bullshit as gospel.

Andy

trudodyr · Post by **trudodyr** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:18 am

Looks like Anandtech is trying hard to become the next THG - shame really..

JazzJackRabbit · Post by **JazzJackRabbit** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 7:34 am

Nice selection of quotes, reminds me why I don't read THG or AT.

stupid typos...

Goldmember · Post by **Goldmember** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:45 am

Well I do enjoy the CPU articles like the one Neil linked to. And I must admit that I enjoy Wesley's mobo articles but his CPU HSF articles are utterly useless. He always compares apples to watermelons! Unlike SPCR. And I didn't appreciate his offensive comments.

Anandtech wrote:For many enthusiasts upgrading cooling the goal is maximum stable overclock, and they will live with the inconvenience of a louder system. For other users silence is the most important factor, and these users will forgo maximum overclocking if that increases system noise levels.

I disagree. How many AT readers, myself included, actually overclock to the level of 3.9ghz! They are a small minority and IMO are more extremists than enthusiasts. Likewise, I've often felt the same way about some of my peers in this forum who go to extreme lengths to reduce all noise. Yes, to each their own, but the middle is a very nice place to be (ie., a moderate overclock and a near silent system.)

Anandtech wrote:We do plan to evaluate additional power supplies and configurations in our upcoming 120mm fan roundup, but we will tilt to real world rather than procedures that test fans on foam blocks or hard drive noise with their "noisy" side pointed toward a foam block.

Nice shot Wes.

But I trust and prefer SPCR's testing methods over Anandtech's any day of the week. If you spent more time in the AT forums, you would see how many of your readers buy Antec cases and other quiet components. Loud PCs are so 1999. Join the 21st century dude.

JazzJackRabbit wrote:Nice selection of quotes, reminds me why I don't ream THG or AT.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:29 am

It requires passion, skill, correct devices and ability to use them when making audio recordings and tests. Accepting 14 dB/A fan noise as fact is BS. especially if claiming they blow over 45 CFM's air, not to mention 72 CFM at 14 dB/A is load of horse hockey!!

AT should stay in overclocking etc and leave silence things for enthusiasts and SPCR staff.

[-Stash-] · Post by **[-Stash-]** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:55 am

Man, so much hate =D

I agree to a point, but what I really want to know is "is this fan any good"? I mean it's all very well trashing the review, but unless you have something to back it up, you shouldn't trash the fan...

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:13 am

[-Stash-] wrote:Man, so much hate =D

I agree to a point, but what I really want to know is "is this fan any good"? I mean it's all very well trashing the review, but unless you have something to back it up, you shouldn't trash the fan...

Welcome to SPCR. If you were a SPCR regular, you'd know that there isn't a anechoic chamber in this world, that would have ambient noise level as low as 14dBA. That means, that SilenX marketing department is full of BS, just like many other manufacturers who make these unbeliveable claims. And Wesley Fink is ignorant to spread these lies with his authority.

Anandtech audio measurement devices and methods are a joke. They cannot differentiate Scythe fan @ 1200, Zalman 9500/9700, Coolermaster Hyper 6+ @ 1800, Tuniq Tower @ 1000 or Intels Stock heatsink from each other.

It's not that we don't have anything to back it up, we are complaining because Anandtech doens't have anything to back it up.

[-Stash-] · Post by **[-Stash-]** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:30 am

Would be nice if SPCR could get a hold of one of these fans and actually see if they are any god though. I understand your point about the lies and ignorance.

nick705 · Post by **nick705** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:24 am

Mr Fink has now done the Ninja rev. B. He likes it, and he repeats his liking for the SilenX fan, which he feels suits the Ninja much better than the stock Scythe item.

Scythe Ninja Plus Rev. B: Updated Cooling Legend

*throws hand grenade and runs away*.....

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:49 am

Mrs Fink does it again

There might very well be a difference between these 2 coolers, that "Z" might be the vindicators downfall, but as Mrs Fink is an idiot I dont believe the numbers for any of those coolers.

I would be happy to revise my standing on what that twat has said if other review sites come up with the same numbers, but until that point Anandtech has lost a huge amount of credibility.

Andy

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:57 am

nick705 wrote:Mr Fink has now done the Ninja rev. B. He likes it, and he repeats his liking for the SilenX fan, which he feels suits the Ninja much better than the stock Scythe item.

Given Fink's concentration on overclocking, he is entirely correct - for that purpose, the "14dBA" SilenX (or S-Flex "F") is the better fan!

I haven't said this for a while, so I'll repeat: SilenX does not lie about their fan noise. What they do is choose an utterly different approach to testing than everybody else, and the numbers (as everyone has noticed), are spectacularly not equivalent.

I often read that SilenX keeps their method of measuring fan noise (to get the low numbers) a secret. That, folks, is a lie! SilenX includes the method of measurement on every brochure, in the instructions provided with every fan, and on their web site (where you can see the brochure in electronic form). Far from being a secret, they are shouting their measurement method at the top of their lungs.

It is a fact that the SilenX numbers cannot be compared with the numbers on any other fan because no other fan manufacturer uses that measurement method. Question: who is the bigger miscreant/idiot, someone who expects to compare numbers obtained differently, or someone who adopts a different method and shouts that different method from the rooftops?

Personally, I think there should be a law that everyone has to measure their fans using the same method and the same equipment, in the same acoustic testing facility. I think the death penalty would be a fair and reasonable punishment for anyone violating this law.

But the above is just my opinion, and I'm not king of the world.

SilenX and Thermaltake routinely publish noise numbers established differently. So? They obviously think this provides an advantage for them. Perhaps it does. Anyone looking for the smallest number describing the fan noise would immediately choose SilenX or Thermaltake over everybody else!

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 2:21 am

SilenX and Thermaltake routinely publish noise numbers established differently.

Do TT also publicise their measurement method? (I'll hazard a guess it's "walk back 100m then measure").

Personally, I think there should be a law that everyone has to measure their fans using the same method and the same equipment, in the same acoustic testing facility. I think the death penalty would be a fair and reasonable punishment for anyone violating this law.

sound reasonable to me

kater · Post by **kater** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:21 am

And what would you say about the dB Noctua claims here. It is a fact that Noctua is No. 1 recommended 120mm fan, but this kind of marketing BS may undermine the company's good name. Noctua does have a good name, right? Keep it that way, add the digit "1" in front of these and we'll be friends, OK?

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:56 am

Something seems wrong in that Ninja test:

Ninja revb idle 31c STOCK 1200rpm fan
OCZ Vindicator idle 32c STOCK 1000 rpm fan

Ninja revb load 47c STOCK 1200rpm fan
OCZ Vindicator load 43c STOCK 1000 rpm fan

Why does Ninja lose the cooling edge at load? It has faster fan and all...

Change the fans to SilenX IXTREMA

Ninja revb idle 27c SilenX IXTREMA
OCZ Vindicator idle 29c SilenX IXTREMA

Ninja revb load 35c SilenX IXTREMA
OCZ Vindicator load 41c SilenX IXTREMA

Now Ninja manages to keep the small edge and even increase it.

Supposedly Ninja gains 12c load improvement when changing from a 1200rpm Scyhe fan to a SilenX IXTREMA and when Vindicator changes even slower 1000rpm fan to IXTREMA it only gains 2c. It seems pretty obvious, that Anandtech has screwed up their load test with Ninja and Scythe fan somehow.

I just cannot believe, that the 1000rpm Vindicator would outperform 1200rpm Ninja by 4 celsius and then lose by 10 celsius, when the fans are switched to IXTREMA. Very fishy...

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:58 am

And what would you say about the dB Noctua claims here.

At least they put an asterisk by it which means "Extrapolated value"; they're not claiming to actually have measured those impossible dB values.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:13 am

kater wrote:And what would you say about the dB Noctua claims here. It is a fact that Noctua is No. 1 recommended 120mm fan, but this kind of marketing BS may undermine the company's good name. Noctua does have a good name, right? Keep it that way, add the digit "1" in front of these and we'll be friends, OK?

Frankly I don't care much, what the manufacturers say, but I think reviewers should have some responsibility on how they present these marketing claims.

I wish someone sends Wesley Fink a 200CFM Delta fan with a sticker that says 1dBA, so he can praise a new fan with the worlds best noise-to-airflow ratio...

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 7:20 am

jaganath wrote:Do TT also publicise their measurement method?

No, but from lots of reading I infer that it's this: if a fan has a minimum and maximum RPM, or a minimum and maximum voltage, the advertised CFM and RPM will be at the maximum and the noise will be measured at the minimum.

Thermaltake actually correctly specifies the noise levels (both min and max) of some fans whose variable speed is a prominent feature, such as temperature controlled fans. And in at least one other case - the 220mm fan in their Kandalf replacement side panel - I believe TT simply passes on the info it gets from the fan maker.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 8:44 am

i'm gonna look into that SilenX fan...if its that quiet, and moves that much air, i want 2. and i do actually have ready access to quite sensitive shotgun microphones, maybe i could even find a good dB rating for it.

Post by **CA_Steve** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:44 am

All bashing aside, it would be nice to see SilenX added to the list of tested fans so we can see how it stands vs all of the others.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:23 am

an absolutely disgusting price tag on them tough...$24USD each...thats like, more than half what i have saved up...

however, they are trying hard...on their website i found this page where you entered your specs and details of your system, and you entered your name and email and they'd work on a silencing system for you...my case is more based on airflow than silence [this rig at least] so i sent them a nice challenge. silence a dual pentium III Xeon system.

as soon as i get their reply i'll post it, i'm eager to see what kind of tricks they've got up their sleeves.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:42 am

bonestonne wrote:an absolutely disgusting price tag on them tough...$24USD each...thats like, more than half what i have saved up...

That's one of the reason most people here would tell you to buy Yate Loons.

viewtopic.php?t=39452
viewtopic.php?t=35831

Not only are the Yate Loons alot cheaper, but they most likely also perform better.

Erssa · Post by **Erssa** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:03 am

Erssa wrote:Something seems wrong in that Ninja test:

Ninja revb idle 31c STOCK 1200rpm fan
OCZ Vindicator idle 32c STOCK 1000 rpm fan

Ninja revb load 47c STOCK 1200rpm fan
OCZ Vindicator load 43c STOCK 1000 rpm fan

Why does Ninja lose the cooling edge at load? It has faster fan and all...

Change the fans to SilenX IXTREMA

Ninja revb idle 27c SilenX IXTREMA
OCZ Vindicator idle 29c SilenX IXTREMA

Ninja revb load 35c SilenX IXTREMA
OCZ Vindicator load 41c SilenX IXTREMA

Now Ninja manages to keep the small edge and even increase it.

Supposedly Ninja gains 12c load improvement when changing from a 1200rpm Scyhe fan to a SilenX IXTREMA and when Vindicator changes even slower 1000rpm fan to IXTREMA it only gains 2c. It seems pretty obvious, that Anandtech has screwed up their load test with Ninja and Scythe fan somehow.

I just cannot believe, that the 1000rpm Vindicator would outperform 1200rpm Ninja by 4 celsius and then lose by 10 celsius, when the fans are switched to IXTREMA. Very fishy...

SPCR article wrote:What was the CPU temperature achieved by this high airflow fan?

41Â°C. Exactly the same temperature reached by most of the 120mm fans at 1100 RPM.

After seeing the latest SPCR airflow article, I think I have a theory for the 10 celsius performance difference between the 1200rpm Scythe fan and 1400rpm SilenX. I think the only possible explanation is, that they mounted the fan on Ninja the wrong way. It must have been pulling air, instead of pushing. That would also explain why the Ninja lost to OCZ by 4 celsius at load, eventhough it had 200rpms slower fan.

Edit: I just sent mail to Wesley Fink about this. The Scythe Ninja article makes the 1200rpm Scythe fan look worse then it actually is, when it looses to a 1400rpm SilenX by 12 celsius in the load test.

OCZ Vindicator review at anandtech

OCZ Vindicator review at anandtech

Re: OCZ Vindicator review at anandtech

Re: OCZ Vindicator review at anandtech