Scythe Zipang ..... Impressions, Mods.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:50 am

I need a relatively short blow-down heatsink for my current project. I had been using a Thermalright XP-120, but I thought I could do better with the cooling and the fan noise. The Zipang did it..... to the tune of maybe 20%. I'm now running about 4C less @ about 300 less rpms (on the bench).

The 140mm fan that comes with the Zipang is very quiet, but I needed a little more airflow for this CPU (P4-3.4EE), so after trying maybe five different fans, I settled on this Aerocool 140x20mm. It'll do about 1250rpms, but maxes out today (24C ambient) about 900rpms @45C. This heatsink will also mount 120mm fans if you want.

The mount is nice...... you can install this heatsink with four different orientations. I have it with an offset toward the top, since the PSU is not above the board.

It turns out to be 25mm taller than an XP-120 with it's fan. The Aerocool fan in the photos is 5mm shorter than the Scythe fan, so I saved some height which I needed.

But since the Scythe fin pack is 25mm further from the board, the board components were running hotter than with the XP-120. So I added some skirts to three sides of the Zipang, held on by Velcro. This really helped the board temps.....lowered some 10-15C. Nice.

Anyway this new heatsink should work better in my project than the Thermalright. I had to buy a metal backplate and retention bracket for this 478 board......the Thermalright broke the stock mount. This heatsink is heavier still, so I didn't want to take chances. Working good so far....

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Thu May 01, 2008 3:40 pm

I'm testing a Scythe Zipang on an Intel D845HV board with polymer caps in the VRM. Processor is a hot Prescott 3.0 GHz Pentium 4 530 in socket 775. Voltages and clocking are both stock.

On the bench, the Zone 1,2 temps are 28C, and the processor is 49C, with the stock Intel fan assembly. With the Zipang, the processor stays the same, but both Zone 1 and Zone 2 temps jump way up to 38C. The polymer caps are very hot to the touch. To be fair, I did not touch them with the stock fan in place. However, the Zone 1,2 temps are 10C higher with the Zipang.

I noticed the VRM breeze provided by the Zipang is not anywhere close to the amount of breeze produced by the stock HSF. On the flip side, the Intel HSF spins at 4825 RPM and is obnoxiously loud on the bench. The Zipang is inaudible.

I mounted mine using the Thermalright LGA 775 back plate kit. Be prepared for a giant pain in the ass with this. The spring loaded screws work fine, but they are quite difficult to get into place under the Zipang wings. The South-West wing corner closest to the sound connectors on the I/O shield is by far the worst to reach.

You will need a very tight 90-degree Phillips to tighten the screws. I made a quick one from bending a paper clip with a "V" at one end. Needle nose pliers do the job nicely. Even if you could find a drill-bit thin driver to get down between the fins, the heat pipes are in the way.

At first I thought the four bracket mounting screws were a bit short. The HSF body flange is 2.0mm thick, and the flange is 1.0mm. The thread portion of the four mounting screws is just at 3.0mm. I would have liked 3.5 to make sure all threads were grabbed. I mount the bracket to the Zipang with Blue Loctite.

Unlike many of the other coolers, the Zipang can be mounted in any of its four possible directions, case permitting. I have two Zipang, and both will find permanent homes on Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3/DS3L boards. The orientation is specifically over the NB heat sink, as the DS3L NB is known to run too hot. I'm thinking seriously about a 1500 RPM fan for the Zipang instead of the 930 RPM that comes with the unit. Cooling is more important for my clients than is noise.

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Thu May 01, 2008 4:56 pm

A few more observations on the Zipang: changing out the fan makes a huge difference in cooling.

I substituted a 120x38mm Panaflo 12U at 2750 rpm for the stock Scythe 138mm fan at 930 rpm.

There is a significant breeze on the VRM and NB components. I can leave my finger on the VRM caps and MOSFETS and they are only warm. The NB is even cooler to the touch.

I put a Zalman variable resistor fan control in series with the Panaflo fan. At full speed, Red to Ground is 10.5v. The Zalman drops 1.6v.

12.1v
Zone 1 = 29C
Zone 2 = 28C
Processor = 44C

10.5v
Zone 1 = 32C
Zone 2 = 29C
Processor = 45C

8.5v
Zone 1 = 33C
Zone 2 = 32C
Processor = 47C

7.0v
Zone 1 = 36C
Zone 2 = 34C
Processor = 50C

Dialing down the voltage to 8.5 and lower makes the fan very quiet. The breeze is significantly reduced. The MOSFETS are hot, and the VRM caps are very warm.

The Zipang wing width appears to be a marketing after thought. The top fins have a second step that accepts standard 120mm fans. The heat pipes are oriented for the 120mm fan footprint, and the extra wide fins are apparently wasted. It appears to be size just for the sake of size.

Scaled back from 145mm to 124mm wide would let the unit accept a standard 120mm fan. IMO, the unit would be just as effective, and easier to install.

The conclusion reached regard fans is, use the Panaflo 120mm 12U and undervolt it for your noise requirements. Even at 7v, the Panaflo provided much lower VRM and MOSTFET temps than does the stock Scythe fan. I find the Scythe at 12v about the same noise as the Panaflo at 7~8.5v. No measurements taken for noise.

jhhoffma · Post by **jhhoffma** » Thu May 01, 2008 5:58 pm

Maybe you should look at getting some small heatsinks for your MOSFETs if they run that hot with even a small amount of airflow. Just some small ramsinks would be plenty (even if you have to cut them down), just to give some more surface area and mass to dissipate the heat.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Fri May 02, 2008 1:45 am

bgavin.....you came to almost the same conclusion as I did. The Scythe 140mm fan just doesn't have enough CFM. I also tried several 120x25mm fans, but found the Aerocool 140x20 to cool better at a lower noise level.

This setup of mine is now running in a case, and I'm pleased with the thing. The little skirts I installed solved the high board temps. Put a more powerful fan on this thing and you've got a winner....

Check out this Evercool. I got one the other day.....powerful and can start at a very low voltage. It has eleven blades, and comes with a 140/120 reducer. It's a normal 140x25mm fan with the reducer removed. That should be plenty for this Zipang. Scythe just missed the boat with their fan, particularly when using a hot processor.

Cistron · Post by **Cistron** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:19 am

Does it make a difference whether the fan sucks or blows through the heatsink? The former should be more effective for board cooling, shouldn't it?

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Fri May 02, 2008 3:37 am

Well...I'm using it as intended, blowing toward the board. If you had it mounted in the "suck" mode, it would be blowing directly at the side panel in a tower case. If you constructed a duct of sorts to the outside, the "suck mode" might work ok.

That's for somebody else to try....

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Fri May 02, 2008 7:04 am

Bluefront wrote:I also tried several 120x25mm fans, but found the Aerocool 140x20 to cool better at a lower noise level.

Bluefront, thanks for the tips. I notice the provided spring clips do not work for 120mm fans. Did you have any difficulty with 140x25 fans you tested?

Unfortunately, the 120x38 Panaflo I used does not have an RPM sensor built in. I was not able to determine the RPM when I undervolted this fan.

I'm much more interested in VRM cooling than in absolute silence. With this goal in mind, I have to find a 140x25 fan that mounts with the Zipang spring clips and sufficiently cools the VRM. It's too bad all these fans have sleeve bearings.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:34 am

Well.... when I bench-tested this heatsink, I was just sitting different fans on the heatsink, without using the clips. I thought those clips also would stretch enough to mount a 120mm fan. You need to use open-cornered fans (or cut the corner open). The springs attach to the lower corners of the frame. EDIT....the springs actually clip on the upper corners, so you could use a closed corner fan.

Right now the ambient here is 24C.......the aerocool 140x20 is turning 813 rpms @ 36C cpu temp. That's a P4-3.4EE Galitin core.....not quite as hot as a Prescott, so they say.

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Fri May 02, 2008 8:48 am

I'm disappointed at the lack of premium offerings in 140x25. Nearly all are sleeve bearings.

Evercool manufactures the EC-14025H12E model, which has their fluid bearing. RPM ranges similar to Panaflo, i.e. 600 to 1800 by model number. I can't find anybody selling this fan. Even the distributor has nothing on their web site. I'm a computer service and have a resale ticket, so I can buy wholesale.

The Red Scorpion has the fluid bearing, but only spins at 1200 rpm. I want something that moves more air for servers and client workstations that don't have noise requirements.

The Scythe spring clips don't reach the 120mm fan, due to the smaller corner distance. Cable ties are not really optimal, since they have to be tweaked down tight, and the fins are fragile. Elastic bands would work, but I fear a short life span and a loose fan when a band lets go.

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Fri May 02, 2008 12:56 pm

I just got an email from my cooling vendor... they say the EC-14025H12E will be available some time in June. This model line is the one with the fluid bearing (stolen/licensed from Sony??), so it should have some long life in it.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sat May 03, 2008 6:09 am

FWIW.... still playing around with this setup. I added an upper skirt to the Zipang. Now all four sides have these skirts. They end up about 1" from the MB......force the air from the fan to hit the board components much better than without the skirts.

This last skirt lowered the Zone1 temp sensor reading, about 2C, without affecting anything else. Worth the trouble. The view is with the top of the case removed..... from approximately the position of the passive exhaust vent.

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:02 am

Can you detail the skirt material and installation please? The reduced photos are quite rough, and I can't make out much for details.

Q: is the stock Zipang fan sufficient for VRM cooking with full skirts in place?

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:22 am

Sorry... I don't upload hi-res photos. I'm on a dial-up. The skirts are simply flat plastic strips cut from a car dealer's logo plates on a new car ( got a bunch free). I cover them with cloth duct tape to keep the plastic from splitting when making bends such as you see in the photo. They are attached with Velcro, so I can make changes easily.

Frankly....that Zipang fan is so low-powered, I never tried it with the skirts. You need to try that Red Scorpion fan. I think it's powerful enough for anything....can't find any CFM specs however, The medium speed 140x25 Yate Loon should also work about the same. I used the 140x20 fan because it saved me the 5mm, and it was much more powerful than the Zipang fan.

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Sat May 03, 2008 8:56 am

The Red Scorpion is 1200 rpm, 22 dB(A). CFM appears to be similar to the Antec 120mm 3-speed fan on HIGH.

Newegg has a cheap deal on them, so I ordered up two for each of my Zipang coolers. The fan I want is the Evercool EC-14025H12E 1800 rpm fluid bearing model, but it won't be available until June.

I figure the Red Scorpion + skirts will probably do the job. I want to stay with a 140mm fan for easy clip mounting and higher flow/lower rpm. The Scorpion has the Sony fluid bearing.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Thu May 08, 2008 7:25 am

The Evercool Red Scorpion appears to be deactivated on NewEgg. Humm...wonder why? Wonder if it's a legal issue with the bearing?

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:03 pm

I bought a few extras when Newegg offered them. Heatsinkfactory still shows 25 in stock. The RSF-14 Red Scorpion seems to be a good intermediate solution for the Zipang and VRM cooling.

The RSF-14 is a 140x25 fan, so it fits directly into the Zipang spring clips. I took the removed Scythe 140mm fan, and installed the RSF-14 reducer onto it, so I can use it for case exhaust fans. This puts the more silent Scythe 930 rpm fan at the case exhaust where it can be usefully quiet.

While testing the system board in the standard vertical position, I noted board chatter about a 9C difference in temps with North/South heat pipe orientation. I rotated my free standing vertical board 90 degrees, so the heat pipe condensors are North. I'm only testing under idle, and have notice no temp change between East/West and North/South.

What I did notice on the i916GAG board was a 3C drop in Zone 1/2 temps when I stood the board up vertical. In standard E/W orientation, the Zone sensors are near the North East corner of the cpu keep-out area.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Thu May 15, 2008 11:16 am

FWIW....In case anyone is interested in the exact dimensions of the Zipang, here they are, right off the Scythe support forum.

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Fri May 16, 2008 11:27 am

The Thermalright LGA-RM mounting kit is a bust for mounting the Zipang using the 478 bracket kit. The Zipang 478 bracket interferes with VRM capacitors on a GA-P35-DS3 board, and cannot be used at all on a 775 board.

I looked at the two Xigmatek bolt-through kits on the web site. It appears to me they are specifically for the installed height of their particular heat sink, and not appropriate for general use.

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:40 am

Hey Bluefront, what do you think about reverse mounting the Zipang, similar to the big CoolerMaster?

Bolt clearance under the Zipang on the top side is pretty tight in one place. I was thinking about a bolt-attachment with the bolt head on the top side, and the nut against the back plate. The Thermalright RM bolt-through kit has a backplate with the threaded inserts not installed. This would work in this situation.

A measurement of the standard push-pin plastic part will reveal the spacer thickness required between the top bracket and mother board.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:57 am

That should work ok.....if you can fit a bolt in there. When I've had similar issues, I've tightened a nut and bolt to the board in the four holes.....had the threaded part of the bolt sticking up. So I could then attach the heatsink with nuts and washers.

Since your back-plate is threaded......You could thread a screw through the threaded hole from the back-side....then tighten a nut on the top-side. Then the heat-sink could attach with nuts and washers. This makes a really solid connection.

You do have to be able to apply even pressure as you tighten the nuts....not hard. You just tighten the nuts down evenly, say 1/2 turn at a time.

bgavin · Post by **bgavin** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:32 am

I can use the threaded backplate from the LGA-775 kit, or the non-threaded (open hole) from the RM kit. Dropping a bolt from the top, and nutting from the rear is more accessible in the cramped space under the Zipang wings.

My thoughts about the spacer was simulating the plastic of the push-pin that interposes between the cooler bracket and the board. From memory, I think it is 3.0 ~ 3.5mm. This would avoid any tendency to cock the sink, unless I use a different bolt and spring load it from the TR kit.