temps i7 920 with new cooler

Cooling Processors quietly

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

Goldy
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Goldy » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:13 am

I am very glad with all the quick reactions of you all.
One thing i didn,t mention yet and that is that i had to higher my d-ram voltage to 1.66 v to work stable with my ocz platinum xtc 1600 memory.
Effect of this was that the idle temps went about 4 degrees higher but under load it didn,t make much difference.
And normally the room temperature here is about 19/20 degrees, it,s very hot here right now.

edan
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:24 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Post by edan » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:45 pm

Goldy wrote:I am very glad with all the quick reactions of you all.
One thing i didn,t mention yet and that is that i had to higher my d-ram voltage to 1.66 v to work stable with my ocz platinum xtc 1600 memory.
Effect of this was that the idle temps went about 4 degrees higher but under load it didn,t make much difference.
I'm glad you've been able to get your system stable. Are you aware of the 1.65v limit for Core i7 memory? I haven't built one yet, or trolled too many overclocking forums, but I've definitely seen the Intel warnings about going above 1.65. You are probably more experienced than me, but I thought I should point it out.
Goldy wrote: And normally the room temperature here is about 19/20 degrees, it,s very hot here right now.
True, but 5C difference doesn't seem like it makes much of a difference in your temps. I think someone said earlier in the thread, at least with the hot temperatures, you can look at the temps you are getting and considering them "worst case" :)

Since you have gotten your system stable, I thought you might find it comforting (at least a little), that the Puget Systems folks recommend "under 80C" for normal operating, and they have run tests at 100C stably. The same post describes how it is normal for different CPUs to have different operating ranges--basically, if a CPU barely passes as a 940 it'll be a cool running 920, and apparently Puget sees 10-20C differences between CPUs.

And just doing some simple googling, some people on Tomshardware's forums were reporting similar temps (max of 72C with 77F/25C ambient) ... Sooo, I tend to think "cooler = better" but

Your temps may be just fine.
Your system instability was probably not your processor getting too hot

If you feel good about your memory voltage, I'd say maybe you are fine :)

Goldy
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Goldy » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:50 pm

For my feelings a temp under 68 degrees would be perfect under max load .
I indeed have read many forums with all having very different max temperatures but a temp under 68 is what the most think is safe .
So i go from there.
It's not that i'm so into that overclocking, not at all.
But my memory wich came with the pc just will work with 1.66V, and the recommended settings are indeed 1.65V but i can't set that voltage in my motherboard, it goes from 1.64v, next step is 1.66v. Set it first to 1.64v but this wasn't stable ...

ATWindsor
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm

Post by ATWindsor » Sat Jul 04, 2009 1:04 am

Goldy wrote:For my feelings a temp under 68 degrees would be perfect under max load .
I indeed have read many forums with all having very different max temperatures but a temp under 68 is what the most think is safe .
So i go from there.
It's not that i'm so into that overclocking, not at all.
But my memory wich came with the pc just will work with 1.66V, and the recommended settings are indeed 1.65V but i can't set that voltage in my motherboard, it goes from 1.64v, next step is 1.66v. Set it first to 1.64v but this wasn't stable ...
I would have to agree that under 68 would be ideal as a max temp. But on the other hand i think i could handle up to 80 in the conditions you posted if I had too, prime 95 in warm-weather-conditions will probably only happen in real usage less than 1% of the CPUs lifetime, so I don't think it will present long-term problems as long as its stable. In other words, I would rather have it more quiet then never going over 68.

AtW

ATWindsor
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm

Post by ATWindsor » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:17 am

Have you considered undervolting by the way? Getting the voltage down to arodun 1V should get the power usage down 10-30 watts I would guess? That might help.

AtW

Goldy
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Goldy » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:06 am

If not needed i prefer not to undervolt, but it is an option when things will not work out.
These fans i am about to order, nexus pwm, scythe slipstream 1200 rpm.
I have read things about the scythe slipstream here at spcr that the slipstream 1600 rpm will not unvervolt enough for silence, instead i was thinking about the s-flex 1600 rpm ....
What do you guys think about the s-flex 1600 rpm ?

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12283
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Sat Jul 04, 2009 10:41 am

Several points:

1) the HR-01's fairly large size combined with low airflow impedance makes it really efficient with very low airflow.

2) However, with very low airflow, the HR-01 has fairly modest cooling capability relative to today's hottest processors. This cooler with low speed Nexus does well with our test CPU drawing under 70W at load.

3) Your i7 has a TDP of 130W. Even if you think that's too high since your chip is only a 920, it still generates much more heat than our test CPU.

4) Fundamentally, I think you need more fin surface area to get effective super quiet cooling (ie, w/700rpm 120mm fan). Or more fin surface area as well as higher airflow.

Bottom line -- for effective quiet cooling with such a hot CPU, you need a bigger heatsink with greater fin surface area. The TRUE120 would have been a better choice. Ditto Prolima Megahalems. And it appears that in your current case setup, a Nexus 120 at 12V is the minimum speed you need to keep the CPU cooled adequately.

Of course I'd ask whether prime95 is a realistic simulation of loads that you actually apply to your PC. I mean if the most demanding thing you do is apply a filter in Photoshop that takes a couple minutes to finish, then trying to get the system stable with prime95 for >15 mins is unnecessary.

BTW, you have not mentioned case/airflow details -- they matter a lot!

Goldy
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Goldy » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:04 pm

I have choosen this cooler just because it performed very well with less airflow here at spcr, i know the i7 920 is a hotty but i thougt this cooler could handle it with low fan speed.
Maybe i can sell it or even turn it back, it's just 2 weeks old or so.
But i think it can do the job,the cpu is getting 44 degrees in idle and that's for the i7 920 normal i suppose, and that with a fanspeed of 700 rpm.
So maybe more fanspeed headroom for the max. load, i can adjust the fanspeed in the bios and with easy tune 6, by a certain temperature the fanspeed will increase.
By the way i have an antec p182 case
1 intake fan (nexus real silent 7v) in the upper hdd case( hdd case removed).
Outtake fan on the rear (nexus real silent 7v) en outtake fan in the top (noctua nf-s12 7v).

ATWindsor
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm

Post by ATWindsor » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:06 pm

MikeC wrote:Several points:

1) the HR-01's fairly large size combined with low airflow impedance makes it really efficient with very low airflow.

2) However, with very low airflow, the HR-01 has fairly modest cooling capability relative to today's hottest processors. This cooler with low speed Nexus does well with our test CPU drawing under 70W at load.

3) Your i7 has a TDP of 130W. Even if you think that's too high since your chip is only a 920, it still generates much more heat than our test CPU.

4) Fundamentally, I think you need more fin surface area to get effective super quiet cooling (ie, w/700rpm 120mm fan). Or more fin surface area as well as higher airflow.

Bottom line -- for effective quiet cooling with such a hot CPU, you need a bigger heatsink with greater fin surface area. The TRUE120 would have been a better choice. Ditto Prolima Megahalems. And it appears that in your current case setup, a Nexus 120 at 12V is the minimum speed you need to keep the CPU cooled adequately.

Of course I'd ask whether prime95 is a realistic simulation of loads that you actually apply to your PC. I mean if the most demanding thing you do is apply a filter in Photoshop that takes a couple minutes to finish, then trying to get the system stable with prime95 for >15 mins is unnecessary.

BTW, you have not mentioned case/airflow details -- they matter a lot!
I'm not sure i am following you? At 700 rpm (7 V approx), the HR-01 is a better cooler than the TRUE on the pentium, it should be a better cooler at 7V for a i920 too? Regardless of CPU, the cooler will dissipate the same amount of heat with the same fanspeed, and same difference between cooler-temp an ambient temp?

AtW

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12283
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:20 pm

ATWindsor wrote:I'm not sure i am following you? At 700 rpm (7 V approx), the HR-01 is a better cooler than the TRUE on the pentium, it should be a better cooler at 7V for a i920 too? Regardless of CPU, the cooler will dissipate the same amount of heat with the same fanspeed, and same difference between cooler-temp an ambient temp?
700rpm was what the OP started with -- what I'm saying is there's no way he can cool his i7 with the fan spinning that slow. As I wrote, min airflow has to be Neuxs 120 full speed -- roughly 1krpm -- but with more fin area than the HR01. The TRUE has more fin area, and with the greater heat of i7, I'm quite certain it will do better with a 1krpm fan than the HR01. Probably not by a big margin... with 2krpm, the TRUE advantage should show up more. But then it won't be quiet at all.

Anyway, my advice stands: Don't waste time with more CPU fan changes, move up to a Megahalems and improve case airflow if possible.

ATWindsor
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm

Post by ATWindsor » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:30 pm

MikeC wrote:
ATWindsor wrote:I'm not sure i am following you? At 700 rpm (7 V approx), the HR-01 is a better cooler than the TRUE on the pentium, it should be a better cooler at 7V for a i920 too? Regardless of CPU, the cooler will dissipate the same amount of heat with the same fanspeed, and same difference between cooler-temp an ambient temp?
700rpm was what the OP started with -- what I'm saying is there's no way he can cool his i7 with the fan spinning that slow. As I wrote, min airflow has to be Neuxs 120 full speed -- roughly 1krpm -- but with more fin area than the HR01. The TRUE has more fin area, and with the greater heat of i7, I'm quite certain it will do better with a 1krpm fan than the HR01. Probably not by a big margin... with 2krpm, the TRUE advantage should show up more. But then it won't be quiet at all.

Anyway, my advice stands: Don't waste time with more CPU fan changes, move up to a Megahalems and improve case airflow if possible.
Hmm, ok, thanks a lot for the advise, i just bought a HR01 for my i7-build, but if the meghalems is much better for that, i will send it back and get the megahalems. Do you now if it cleras a regular ram-stick in height (with fan attach), i am planning to fill all 6 ram-slots...

AtW

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12283
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:47 pm

ATWindsor wrote:Hmm, ok, thanks a lot for the advise, i just bought a HR01 for my i7-build, but if the meghalems is much better for that, i will send it back and get the megahalems. Do you now if it cleras a regular ram-stick in height (with fan attach), i am planning to fill all 6 ram-slots...

AtW
Please don;t misinterpret my comments, which are specific to the OP. I have no idea what his case setup is -- if it is poor, no question CPU cooling would suffer. It's quite possible that the HR01 can be used to cool an i7 quietly, but not in the OP's original case setup.

ATWindsor
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm

Post by ATWindsor » Sat Jul 04, 2009 12:58 pm

MikeC wrote:
ATWindsor wrote:Hmm, ok, thanks a lot for the advise, i just bought a HR01 for my i7-build, but if the meghalems is much better for that, i will send it back and get the megahalems. Do you now if it cleras a regular ram-stick in height (with fan attach), i am planning to fill all 6 ram-slots...

AtW
Please don;t misinterpret my comments, which are specific to the OP. I have no idea what his case setup is -- if it is poor, no question CPU cooling would suffer. It's quite possible that the HR01 can be used to cool an i7 quietly, but not in the OP's original case setup.
Yeah, but if you think the Meghalems are a more effective choice I would rather get them now and be a bit more sure not to get in cooling problems, rather than use the HR01, so it can't be returned. Better to suffer a small cost penalty now (extra postage, the coolers cost the same here), and get a cooler wich probably will do a better job (or at least not worse)

AtW

JamieG
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by JamieG » Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:53 pm

Goldy wrote: By the way i have an antec p182 case
1 intake fan (nexus real silent 7v) in the upper hdd case( hdd case removed).
Outtake fan on the rear (nexus real silent 7v) en outtake fan in the top (noctua nf-s12 7v).
Try turning up your rear and top exhaust fans a little bit. This should help too.

Also, I would try adding a Scythe Kama Bay to your P182.

I added one in my P182 and took out the included fan, just to have to extra intake air up near the CPU area. After some double sided tape and zip ties for installation (it doesn't work with the P182's rails), it seems to have dropped my CPU temps by a couple of degrees.

If you wanted to get a little fancy, you could then try ducting your heatsink fan to the Kama Bay, to ensure the CPU heatsink's fan is getting fresh air from the outside of your case.

alleycat
Posts: 740
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2002 10:32 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post by alleycat » Sat Jul 04, 2009 8:32 pm

I recently built a system using a 920 and HR-01 Plus. I've posted the results here.

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12283
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Sat Jul 04, 2009 9:14 pm

JamieG wrote:
Goldy wrote: By the way i have an antec p182 case
1 intake fan (nexus real silent 7v) in the upper hdd case( hdd case removed).
Outtake fan on the rear (nexus real silent 7v) en outtake fan in the top (noctua nf-s12 7v).
Try turning up your rear and top exhaust fans a little bit. This should help too.
Ah, I missed that. I'd turn up the speed of ALL the fans, not just the exhaust, before adding any more fans.

Quatas
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:05 pm
Location: Generally above ground

Post by Quatas » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:11 pm

This thread is making me think that quiet-as-possible pc and the Intel i7 just don't mix. Kinda annoying as I finally had enough money to splurge on something high-endish to upgrade my Athlong XP rig but always with the goal of keeping it as quiet as possible. :(

Or have I gotten the wrong impression? :?

Q.

Goldy
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Goldy » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:19 pm

Turning up the fanspeed of all fans will be a problem, i now have the fans 7v with resistors and connected them with molex on my power supply.
Even if i put them on my motherboard , the only fan which i can adjust is the cpu fan. And speedfan isn't working.
Only solution then is to 12v all fans, but that's not what i want , it's getting to loud then, or buy 3 new fans for the case , also a fancontroller could help me out but i prefer not.

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12283
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:29 pm

Quatas wrote:This thread is making me think that quiet-as-possible pc and the Intel i7 just don't mix.
Without careful planning and selection of all the components, you're right. Even with, it's a big challenge.

I put together an i7-920 system in a Silverstone Raven case a couple months ago. It was smooth and quiet (around or less than 20 dBA), and quite well cooled with the big case fans at slow speed and a TRUE120 + Nexus120. But it definitely was not "quiet-as-possible", and if full CPU load for >20 mins was needed, there did not seem to be any easy way to achieve any lower noise.

Quatas
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:05 pm
Location: Generally above ground

Post by Quatas » Sat Jul 04, 2009 11:57 pm

MikeC wrote:Without careful planning and selection of all the components, you're right. Even with, it's a big challenge.
Joy. Dreams crushed *sob*. Oh well. Just as a quick question: Will I do better with the Q9550? I read your article on the "S" models and, having seen the prices, they ARE kinda hyper-expensive so I was hoping to maybe undervolt a normal CPU to get the same/similar end result.

Q, trying hard to not hijakc a thread but probably failing. :/

Goldy
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Goldy » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:32 am

Ok,have discovered that the ocz platinum memory wich i have running on 1.66 v indeed raises the temp with 4 degrees idle AND at load.
So am going to order normal memory from kingston 1366mhz what's running on 1.5v so the temp will idle 42 , load 70.
Mmm, still to high in my eyes , would it be a difference to change the nexus real silent ( running 1100 rpm) for the scythe slipstream 1200 rpm or scythe s-flex 1600 rpm ?
Or i change the whole thing, cooler True 120 extreme, fan ( don't know yet) , and memory.

ATWindsor
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm

Post by ATWindsor » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:07 am

MikeC wrote:
Quatas wrote:This thread is making me think that quiet-as-possible pc and the Intel i7 just don't mix.
Without careful planning and selection of all the components, you're right. Even with, it's a big challenge.

I put together an i7-920 system in a Silverstone Raven case a couple months ago. It was smooth and quiet (around or less than 20 dBA), and quite well cooled with the big case fans at slow speed and a TRUE120 + Nexus120. But it definitely was not "quiet-as-possible", and if full CPU load for >20 mins was needed, there did not seem to be any easy way to achieve any lower noise.
Just to get this straight, the "smooth and quiet 20 dbA" was achieved when you had the cooling capacity to run full load? So one could envision a setup where it is as quiet ass possible most of the time (when its not on full load), but it ramps up to "smooth and quiet" on full load?

AtW

edan
Posts: 57
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:24 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Post by edan » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:15 am

Goldy wrote:but i think it can do the job,the cpu is getting 44 degrees in idle and that's for the i7 920 normal i suppose, and that with a fanspeed of 700 rpm.
Well, it seems like putting up with higher temperatures is a key pillar of Quiet Computing.

Your idle temperatures are great; your load temperatures are a little high. Personally, with Puget Systems saying "under 80" is good, and 100C being the point of thermal downclocking (but it can still run), I think your load temp seems acceptable.

All this potential work is predicated on 72C being "horribly bad." My MacBook Pro's 2.4GhZ C2D will hit 70C+ on load, and I think that's Apple choosing quiet over cool. (I've only had to replace the logic board for the NVidia problem once, heh.) You've already said it's very hot where you live right now, so for instance, quest_for_silence's recommendation of 68C should be achievable with your current configuration in the winter :)

But most importantly, like MikeC said, do you plan to do anything that stresses the CPU like prime95? And if your quad-cpu-spiked needs are infrequent, your temps IMHO must be fine. From what I've seen, people overclocking the i7 are quite happy with load temps in the 70's :)

I think this has been a great exercise to point out that the i7 probably needs the excellent higher-flow cooling performance of a TRUE to really be cooled effectively (I, like others, thought the HR-01 looked better for i7 cooling at low flow from SPCR's reviews), but let's not loose sight of the "ball." If you're not running prime95 all day, I believe you have already achieved your goal :)

MikeC
Site Admin
Posts: 12283
Joined: Sun Aug 11, 2002 3:26 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Contact:

Post by MikeC » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:46 am

ATWindsor wrote:Just to get this straight, the "smooth and quiet 20 dbA" was achieved when you had the cooling capacity to run full load? So one could envision a setup where it is as quiet ass possible most of the time (when its not on full load), but it ramps up to "smooth and quiet" on full load?
I set the fan speeds manually, so the noise level was constant on this machine. If the CPU fan was thermally controlled, it might have been a touch quieter at idle, but I didn't think the up/down worth it.
Last edited by MikeC on Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

ATWindsor
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm

Post by ATWindsor » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:11 am

MikeC wrote:
ATWindsor wrote:Just to get this straight, the "smooth and quiet 20 dbA" was achieved when you had the cooling capacity to run full load? So one could envision a setup where it is as quiet ass possible most of the time (when its not on full load), but it ramps up to "smooth and quiet" on full load?
I set the fan speeds manually, so the noise level was constant on this machine. If the CPU fan was thermally controlled, it might have been a touch quieter at idle, but I didn't think the up/down worth it.
Ok, thanks for the info.

AtW

Goldy
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Goldy » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:47 am

Yes ,i'm almost satisfied with the results but .......not totally
Changing memory with lower volts is 4 degrees lower, that's the first step i think.
Maybe i get a true 120 extreme, but i also heard that the thermalright cooler like my hr-01 plus are not totally flat.
I can control that and if so i can make it flat myself and hopefully win another degrees in lower temps.
And than my goal is achieved i hope :)

K.Murx
Posts: 177
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:26 am
Location: Germany

Post by K.Murx » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:36 am

Looking at alleycat's results begs the question:

Is TurboBoost enabled in this system?
As it seems to make quite a difference...
Last edited by K.Murx on Thu Jul 09, 2009 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

ATWindsor
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm

Post by ATWindsor » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:36 am

I case you are interested, i tried my new i7 920 system, fan at 600 rpm, prolima megahalems, pretty hot insde due to summer, i reach 68 degrees in speedfan after 30 minutes of prime 95. I am pretty satisfied with the result, its an acceptable temp for me.

The IOH/nortbridge temp is ridicolous though, 108 degrees! I have to do something about that.

AtW

ame
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:35 pm
Location: Israel

Post by ame » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:27 am

Goldy, I would take Mike's advise and examine case airflow.

A good way to test this would be to remove the case cover and see if temps drop. If the drop is more than 4-5c then there is probably not enough airflow in the case and heat buildup. Have you tried removing (or modding) the front intake vent + filter? this could help more than you think.

I have seen people get very good resuts when lapping Termalright heatsinks. I haven't felt the need to do so myself but it might be worth the effort.

Other than that I really think your temps are fine. You should be able to drop the RAM voltage/temps if you dial it down to 1333 or 1066. If not it might be a good idea to replace it. Since you are not OCing, that extra kick of 1600 vs 1333 or 1066 is even less noticable.

Goldy
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:58 am
Location: Netherlands

Post by Goldy » Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:12 pm

Ok, i have lapped my cpu and heatsink, what a job pfff....costs a lost of time.
Temps were again going down from 70 to 66 load, so 4 degrees profit, i hoped a little bit more but that's it.
Almost happy, have the feeling that i will change this nexus real silent fan for an scythe s-flex 1600 rpm that it will do the job even better.
Let the s-flex run idle around 700 rpm, do you guys have experience with the s-flex fans, are they quiet enough ?
That's a good result you have Atwinsor with the prolima @ 600 rpm, do you have it also @ 600 rpm at full load ?
And indeed, mabye the airflow in my case isn's the best , i will check this out as you said AMe. I do have the filter before the intake fan, i will take this out and i suppose you mean by modding to make 1 big hole instead of al the little holes which are now in the case behind the filter....?

Post Reply