i7: Thermalright Venomous X Questions

tase · Post by **tase** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:18 pm

I can't seem to decide witch. The TRUE looks like it's gunna fall off my mobo any second, I don't have anything against the Noctua except that SPCR ranked it lower than the TRUE.

I'm planning on using it in a P182 where there is a top and rear fan and the PSU is at the bottom. Will I got some interference if I pick a side-fan heatsink (TRUE) ?

I've also been considering the Xigmatek HDT-S1283 + Nexus, but EndPCNoise don't have it.

EDIT:

Read latest posts for questions regarding the Venomous X Heatsink.

nyu3 · Post by **nyu3** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:38 pm

Since you live in Canada, why not get the Venomous X? It costs the same as TRUE, but performs better (better than Noctua U12P also). The mounting mechanism is significantly improved compared to TRUE.

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php? ... omoid=1043 ($59.99)

lodestar · Post by **lodestar** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:46 pm

In my opinion fixed speed fans make very little sense with Core i7 systems. At idle the CPU will by default downclock to 1.6Ghz and undervolt to around 0.9v, and a PWM fan will typically run in the 300 to 500 rpm range. Equally under load a 1000/1100 rpm fan is unlikely to cool adequately, and again a PWM fan will just speed up automatically.

So if I were restricted to EndPCNoise there only seems to be the choice of one fan, which is this one http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std ... 120mm.html. For a cooler how about http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std ... _flex.html which is the subject of a current review by SPCR.

tase · Post by **tase** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:59 am

I forgot to mention it but the CPU is overclocked, therefore I don't know if it even downclocks when idle.

And I dont know much about the Venomous, I didn't see it in the chart im looking at in SPCR and there doesn't seem to be any test data around.

lodestar · Post by **lodestar** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:31 am

If the CPU is overclocked it can still idle at 1.6Ghzhz, and almost any decent aftermarket cooler will keep temperatures at least 5C below that of the stock cooler. Under load, particularly gaming, the problem tends to be that although the i7 is quad-core the load is not distributed evenly, often loading one core significantly more than any others. Given this scenario and overclocking it makes sense to fit a PWM fan with a 500-2000 rpm span. The PWM fan incidentally is triggered by the digital temperature sensors on each core. You can replicate this to a degree with 3 pin fans and the latest version of Speedfan but I think it is easier to let the CPU sensors, the X58 chipset and the PWM fan control do it automatically.

The Thermalright Venomous X is the TRUE replacement, and here is the UK at least it is hard to find, and expensive at 50% more than the CNPS10X-FLEX, and no fan of course. The combination of the PWM fan and the CNPS10X-FLEX will cool an overclocked Core i7 perfectly adequately. If you wanted a bit less heat, and possibly noise then the Megahalems might be worth considering.

tase · Post by **tase** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:07 am

Well if the Venomous X is really superior to the TRUE, then I might as well buy it from NCIX.

But can you explain what PWM is ? I guess it's a feature of the mobo that lets it control fan speeds. Therefore it only matter than my fan can rev up high enough to get enough CFM to cool the heatsink when my mobo says so.

So what fan setup would be silent and efficient with the Venomous ?

And if nyu3 reads this, maybe you know a shop that gives free shipping on orders (about 100$ or the such, like EndPCNoise) and carries the Venomous ? NCIX might be the last resort (shipping costs alot).

EDIT: I guess only NCIX.com and DirectCanada.com carry it. The later is fine since they also carry the video cards, but no Nexus fans. Large selection of Scythe fans tho. Those any good with the PWM/Venomous X thing ?

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:47 pm

tase wrote:I can't seem to decide witch.

Why not use Noctua DH-14?

It beats everything at low volumes, incl. True, Venomous X, etc.*

viewtopic.php?t=56080

*At least it's not worse than the margin of error.

It's big, pricey and heavy though, but it is good. I'm using one myself and it does perform well at low voltages.

afireinside · Post by **afireinside** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:27 pm

Venomous-X is the heatsink to have:

http://vr-zone.com/articles/thermalrigh ... 339-5.html

lodestar · Post by **lodestar** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:50 am

tase wrote:But can you explain what PWM is ? I guess it's a feature of the mobo that lets it control fan speeds. Therefore it only matter than my fan can rev up high enough to get enough CFM to cool the heatsink when my mobo says so.

The 4 pin PWM CPU fan socket works together with the motherboard chipset and Digital Thermal Sensors on each core of the CPU. So at idle, a PWM fan will run at or below its minimum speed, effectively silent. On load, the fan will speed up based on the temperature of each CPU core. The hottest CPU core will determine the PWM fan speed, and how hot the cores will get will depend on the CPU cooler. Clearly something like a Thermalright Venomous-X is going to minimize core temperatures, even with a overclocked CPU and consequently limit how far the PWM fan will need to rev up.

I think that the Nexus 120 PWM fan from EndPCNoise would work well with any of the coolers mentioned in this thread.

tase · Post by **tase** » Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:44 pm

I just wanna make sure, does the fan need to support PWM, or is PWM a feature of the motherboard to undervolt a fan, and a "PWM Fan" simply undervolts better ?

Or is there a PWM element in PWM fans that aren't in other fans (ie, a chip or something) ?

Also, since the Venomous isn't sold by EndPCNoise, I need a (canadian?) supplier that wont charge too much to shipping. I can't find anyone that carries a Nexus PWM fan =/

If someone knows of other retailers that carry the Nexus PWM fans, drop a line here.

tase · Post by **tase** » Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:37 pm

Bump.

The only PWM fans available at the shop I have in mind at the Scythe Kama 120MM (DFS122512L-PWM) and the Scythe Slip Stream PWM 120MM (SY1225SL12M-P).

If the reviews are right and PWM (or the lack of) doesn't affect the round up results, I guess the Slip Stream L12M is a better choice.

Does it have enough pressure to cool a heatsink?

Do I really need PWM, won't these fans run silent enough even at full speed?

Or is getting a Venomous with Nexus PWN fans a better choice (and worth paying 20$ S&H for one).

The shop I have in mind, DirectCanada.com, also carries these brands if any of these are worth something other than the Scythe one.

From http://www.directcanada.com/category/?minorcatid=1495

Brand (# of products)

ANTEC (21)
ARCTIC SILVER (8 )
BITSPOWER (1)
BLUEGEARS (3)
COOLERMASTER (6)
COOLJAG (2)
COOLLABORATORY (1)
CORSAIR (2)
DELTA (14)
DYNATRON (3)
ENERMAX (5)
ENZOTECH (13)
FESER ONE (2)
Gelid Solutions Ltd. (15)
GIGABYTE (1)
LOGISYS COMPUTER (1)
NGEAR TECHNOLOGIES INC. (2)
OCZ TECHNOLOGY (2)
PANASONIC (2)
REXUS CORP (5)
SCYTHE (42)
SILENX CORPORATION (29)
SILVERSTONE TECHNOLOGY (11)
SUNON (5)
SUPER MICRO COMPUTER (1)
SWIFTECH (1)
THERMALRIGHT (22)
THERMALTAKE (4)
VANTEC (5)
WORKS (4)
XIGMATEK (7)
ZALMAN TECH (20)
ZEROTHERM (1)

I hope someone can advise me. Too bad EndPcNoise.com doesn't carry the Venomous X, that would make my life so simpler.

ces · Post by **ces** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 5:04 pm

Noxia has a fan controller that you can use to run a normal fan off of a motherboard PWM connection.

It basically converts a normal 3 pin fan into a controllable 4 pin PWM fan.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 6:11 pm

Some older motherboards that only had the 3 pin for the fan could use the RPM sensor with a temp sensor and actually attenuate the fans. Maybe not the same precision as PWM has, but it worked.

Now, with that said, not all motherboards really had success with it because not all motherboards were able to read the RPM sensor of the fan, or there was just something that didn't work.

I used to have a Tyan socket 478 motherboard i sold a short time ago that would keep RPM at 0 below a certain temp, and only spin up as it needed to get back to that temp. great SFF board, but I just didn't use it after finding it couldn't quite do what i wanted.

zc1 · Post by **zc1** » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:37 pm

I would like to add another vote for Noctua: http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1215/5/

tase · Post by **tase** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 9:25 am

Ah I ordered the Venomous X Sunday, the Noctua looks pretty nice tho... regret? Well there isn't a significant difference, so the X isn't trash, going to run it with a Scythe Kama Flow PWM fan on my i7 920 21*180 / 1.34v and see how cold it drops.

BTW is it really recommended to run it with dual fans for noise/cooling? I see on the charts that its -2-5*C and +4db. Anyone have comments on this?

ATM gunna run on single see how hot it goes.

zc1 · Post by **zc1** » Tue Mar 02, 2010 12:35 pm

You shouldn't have any regrets. The Venomous X is a great heatsink, from everything I have seen. When replacing my Corsair H50 I spent a lot of time trying to decide between the DH14 and the Venomous X. Fan selection will have a large effect on cooling performance in any instance.

The noise vs cooling question is really one that only you can answer since threshold for noise and desired performance (overclock and cooling) are so subjective. The other option is to run dual, high-static-pressure fans at a lower, quieter speeds.

dev · Post by **dev** » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:33 pm

The difference between NH-D14 and VEX at medium TDP with a silent fan is close to zero. The Noctua pulls ahead at higher volts and with more powerful fans. Considering the weight and volume difference the VEX is a much more reasonable choice.

ces · Post by **ces** » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:29 am

dev wrote:The difference between NH-D14 and VEX at medium TDP with a silent fan is close to zero. The Noctua pulls ahead at higher volts and with more powerful fans. Considering the weight and volume difference the VEX is a much more reasonable choice.

I agree.

I do think that if noise is an issue the Prolimatech is likely a slightly better solution than the Venomous X.

If there is a difference in cooling capabilities between the two, it is not likely to be much. They both seem to be almost as good as the Noctua NH-D14... at least until you reach really obscene thermal loads.

But the Prolimatech was designed not only to cool but also to do so quietly. It appears that the Venomous X was designed to win benchmark contests that the older True model was starting to lose.

Personally, the Noctua NH-D14, the Thermalright IFX14, and the Scythe Orochi are all just too big for my comfort. They just block too much access to the mother board. And they are too much weight on the CPU socket. Though they each deliver on the performance parameters they were designed to attain.... sort of like the right arm of an Olympic shot putter.

i7: Thermalright Venomous X Questions

i7: Thermalright Venomous X Questions

Re: i7: TRUE + Nexus Or Noctua NH-U12P