[UPDATE P4 3.0@3.4]*pics* Ducted Sonata (with P4 2.66@1.55V)

Cooling Processors quietly

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gksam
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[UPDATE P4 3.0@3.4]*pics* Ducted Sonata (with P4 2.66@1.55V)

Post by gksam » Wed Jan 28, 2004 9:36 am

[UPDATE!!]
Hi all. Just wanted to add that now I have chnaged the board to a P4P800. I got a 3.0C which I am running at 1.525 (stock is 1.55). It comes up at 1.58 on MBM though. I am running 1:1, at 3.4ghz, so thats 15*227mhz. Vdimm is at stock.

I have also chnaged the video card to a 9600Pro. I am running a Zalman 80C on it, passively -- no fan.

So right now, the only fans on the computer are
1) the 120mm @ 5V stock antec fan.
2) the 6V panaflo L1A in the powersupply.

Idle is 28oC for the CPU. 33oC for the motherboard.
Load (prime 95 after 2 hours) is around 58oC for the CPU.

Cheers



[/UPDATE]

-----------------------------
Hi. I was just wanting to share my experiences with you all. I was using an AX478 with a Panaflo L1A @ 6V (i used a pot to reduce the speed, and a multimeter to measure the voltage).

I am using a Sonata case, with the 120mm Antec fan running at 5V on the rear, with the grille cut out. I am using the Sonata 380W Antec (Truepower?) powersupply with a 6.5V panaflo. I hooked this fan up to the "fan-only" leads of the powersupply, and it seems at idle it is around 6.5V (measured with a multimeter).

My CPU is an overclocked P4 2.26 running at 2.66 (17*157). My vcore is 1.55V. Video card is an ATI 8500LE with ZM17Cu with Panaflo 5V on it (looking to replace it with a passive running card). I have 1 harddrive -- a Seagate Barracuda IV 80gig.

With my AX478 with the L1A @ 6V, the idle temps were around 42-44oC. Load is around 58oC or so. Room temperature is 20oC.

I decided to try the ducting thing which somebody else on here has tried. I picked up the Zalman 7000 Cu... and removed the fan, and the fan holder. I decided to just try WITHOUT a duct, and to my surprise, it worked. My idle after running overnight fluctuates between 48-50oC. Under load, it goes high -- I stopped it at 70oC (I assume it is because there is nothing really actively cooling the CPU, so the temps just got higher and higher).

I will try with the duct sometime and see if that improves things.

However, for normal purposes (i.e. no gaming), based on my preliminary observations, it seems the computer can be run passively cooled. Under normal usage (web surfing, email, etc), the temps seemed to get to 52-54oC as a peak.. but usually around 50-51... before cooling down.
Last edited by gksam on Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:07 pm, edited 3 times in total.

silvervarg
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Post by silvervarg » Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:34 pm

The real problem here is that with that solution you can not run the CPU under load for even a short while. So it is not really working properly.

If you are satisfied with surfing, email etc you could use a much slower processor and go passive. For Intel processors the Tualatin core seems to be the way to go. Another option is to underclock your CPU a lot.

The other way to go is to keep running with the processor speed you got and use better cooling in some way. E.g. ducting or put a slow fan on the CPU etc.
Problem is that you will probably not be able to get the Zalman 7000 cooler any quieter than the AX478 with the L1A@6V, so you might end up back where you started.

On the other hand your L1A @6V was likely not a problem to begin with since that noise level should have been far below the noise level of your 120mm exhaust fan. You probably have other components that generates more noise as well.

Ralf Hutter
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Post by Ralf Hutter » Thu Jan 29, 2004 6:11 am

silvervarg wrote:The real problem here is that with that solution you can not run the CPU under load for even a short while. So it is not really working properly.

If you are satisfied with surfing, email etc you could use a much slower processor and go passive.
Yes, you nailed it. What's the point of having a 2.66GHz CPU that you can't run at more than idle?


gksam - You're running the 120mm Antec fan at 5V as your case fan. That'll be the loudest fan in your system. You'll find that's much louder than a 5-7V 80mm L1A Panaflo that you could put on your AX478, and it's also certainly louder than the Zalman 7000 fan at 5V. Either fan-cooled option would allow you to run your CPU at full load and still stay within the safe temp limit for that CPU. And neither option would make your system any louder than it is in it's passivley cooled CPU iteration.

gksam
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Post by gksam » Thu Jan 29, 2004 3:42 pm

Yes, you nailed it. What's the point of having a 2.66GHz CPU that you can't run at more than idle?
I guess I should have rephrased it. I can do anything that I use the computer for except for games (which I only do once a month or so). Work, mp3s, playing videos, playing DVDs, surfing, email all work fine. However, I am trying to see if the duct will solve things -- and bring the load temps within reason. But yes, I don't really need a 2.66ghz CPU for what I do :)


gksam - You're running the 120mm Antec fan at 5V as your case fan. That'll be the loudest fan in your system. You'll find that's much louder than a 5-7V 80mm L1A Panaflo that you could put on your AX478, and it's also certainly louder than the Zalman 7000 fan at 5V. Either fan-cooled option would allow you to run your CPU at full load and still stay within the safe temp limit for that CPU. And neither option would make your system any louder than it is in it's passivley cooled CPU iteration.[/quote]

Before, I was running the L1A @ 6.5V on the AX478, _in_addition_ to having the 5V 120mm fan as an exhaust. If I did not use the exhaust fan, my case temps will be quite a bit higher (4-5oC). I am going to experiment with the Panasonic 120mm fan (the 38mm one -- but sure if that one is a better choice).

gksam
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followup

Post by gksam » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:38 pm

For those who are interested, I finally got around to adding a duct to my Sonata.

Prior to the duct, my idle temps (passive 7000Cu) were 46oC, and load temps were -- too hot :)

I cut a hole, which is directly above the CPU heatsink, and installed a duct. This duct does not actually go deep enough to go inside the "bowl" shaped 7000 Cu.

Nontheless, my idle cpu temps dropped to 33-34oC, and my motherboard temp dropped to 31oC. I noticed the air coming out of my powersupply was cooler as well.

Running prime95 for 30 minutes, the temperature settled at 50-51oC for the vcore.

The only two fans in my system are the 120mm Sonata fan @ 5V, and a Panaflo L1A @ 5V in the powersupply. I tried the 120mm "L1A" at 5V, but mine seems to make an annoying clicking noise.

jojo4u
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Post by jojo4u » Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:44 am

Nicd setup, but it's not "passive" since there is forced air over the HS.

gksam
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Post by gksam » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:02 am

Here are some pictures:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
[/img]

Ralf Hutter
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Post by Ralf Hutter » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:07 am

gksam - What is that duct made from?

zak
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Duct material

Post by zak » Sun Mar 21, 2004 11:16 am

The duct looks like a loudspeaker bass port to me...


Thomas

gksam
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Re: Duct material

Post by gksam » Sun Mar 21, 2004 12:57 pm

Yes, that's correct.

It is a 2.5" diameter bass port I picked up at a car audio place (people use them to build subwoofer boxes).


zak wrote:The duct looks like a loudspeaker bass port to me...


Thomas

ONEshot
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Post by ONEshot » Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:53 pm

That is awesome, I was just thinking about a Sonata and then adding a duct exactly like you did. Hopefully, my computer will turn out exactly like yours.

Now you said that at 100% load it was 50-51? That's awesome. For me, just surfing the net and writing a paper, i'm running 49C with a stock cooler... And I'm pretty sure this is a dumb question, but if you're running a game what are the temps? Same as prime95?

wayner
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Post by wayner » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:19 am

Maybe this is a dumb question but couldn't you put some additional heat sinking up the center of the Zalman7000? This is normally where the fan would go but since you removed the fan then couldn't you do the passive cooling more effectively as the more surface area, the more cooling?

PretzelB
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Post by PretzelB » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:43 am

Congrats on the good results. I always thought that ducts like this would greatly improve temps but most seem to be against them. I think this would work great for my Antec Overture but I'm too scared to cut it.

The only problem you have is upgrading to a new motherboard. Your next board may not line up the same as your current one, which would put your duct off center.

My Chenbro has a built in duct. When attached it lines up with the lower right corner of the cpu fan so it's not a good match with my current mb. It does appear to drop the temp about 1 or 2c though.

DanceMan
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Post by DanceMan » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:39 am

PretzelB wrote:I think this would work great for my Antec Overture but I'm too scared to cut it.
The only problem you have is upgrading to a new motherboard. Your next board may not line up the same as your current one, which would put your duct off center.
Here's a way around that problem. If you switch motherboards, cut off the duct inside the case, leaving about 1 to 2". Then use flexible aluminum ducting from a hardware store to go over to the new cpu location. THe ducting is stiff enough to hold its position. It's available in 3" and 4" diameters, so I'd advise using a speaker duct of 3", if available.

PretzelB
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Post by PretzelB » Thu Apr 15, 2004 1:45 pm

I had thought about doing that for my current mb but the Chenbro is also on the short side so the cpu, rear exhaust, and psu all collide in a very small area. I tested making a duct with cardboard before buying the aluminum stuff and it didn't work well because the extra noise generated by the duct being so close to the other working fans. If I ever upgrade my psu I might get one without a bottom intake fan, which would help. I could also try moving my 120mm exhaust fan to the outside of the case. Maybe someday.

Thanks for the advice.
DanceMan wrote:
PretzelB wrote:I think this would work great for my Antec Overture but I'm too scared to cut it.
The only problem you have is upgrading to a new motherboard. Your next board may not line up the same as your current one, which would put your duct off center.
Here's a way around that problem. If you switch motherboards, cut off the duct inside the case, leaving about 1 to 2". Then use flexible aluminum ducting from a hardware store to go over to the new cpu location. THe ducting is stiff enough to hold its position. It's available in 3" and 4" diameters, so I'd advise using a speaker duct of 3", if available.

gksam
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Post by gksam » Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:59 pm

Hi. The temps after gaming are similar.. around 50-52oC... I assume games may not keep the CPU at 100% all the time (i.e. between levels, or loading, etc).. but will keep the GPU hotter.
ONEshot wrote:That is awesome, I was just thinking about a Sonata and then adding a duct exactly like you did. Hopefully, my computer will turn out exactly like yours.

Now you said that at 100% load it was 50-51? That's awesome. For me, just surfing the net and writing a paper, i'm running 49C with a stock cooler... And I'm pretty sure this is a dumb question, but if you're running a game what are the temps? Same as prime95?

gksam
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Post by gksam » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:00 pm

I think the intel spec is to place the CPU in the same location on all motherboards. I have changed motherboards and the CPU is in the similar location. Actually, its not very centered right now -- beuca seyou'll see in the pictures that hte duct gets in the way of the handle.. Also, there is a crossbar inside the case which gets in the way! I should have the duct a ltitle lower as it is pretty hard to close the case since the duct interferes with this bar!
PretzelB wrote: The only problem you have is upgrading to a new motherboard. Your next board may not line up the same as your current one, which would put your duct off center.

gksam
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Post by gksam » Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:11 pm

[UPDATE] see top of post for 3.0C@3.4... with passive 9600 pro.

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Re: [UPDATE P4 3.0@3.4]*pics* Ducted Sonata (with P4 2.66@1.

Post by Ralf Hutter » Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:39 pm

gksam wrote:[UPDATE!!]
Hi all. Just wanted to add that now I have chnaged the board to a P4P800.
Idle is 28oC for the CPU. 33oC for the motherboard.
Load (prime 95 after 2 hours) is around 58oC for the CPU.

Cheers



[/UPDATE]

-----------------------------
Don't get too excited yet. The P4P800 CPU temp displays about 7-9°C cooler than other typical mobos so you'll need to add that much to compensate for the low readings. In other words, your actual CPU idle temp is closer to 34° and your load temp is around 66°C. :)

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Re: [UPDATE P4 3.0@3.4]*pics* Ducted Sonata (with P4 2.66@1.

Post by sthayashi » Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:45 pm

Ralf Hutter wrote:Don't get too excited yet. The P4P800 CPU temp displays about 7-9°C cooler than other typical mobos so you'll need to add that much to compensate for the low readings. In other words, your actual CPU idle temp is closer to 34° and your load temp is around 66°C. :)
Ralf, do you know if this temperature difference is applicable for all Asus boards, or just the P4P800? If it's for all boards, then I'm running on the ragged edge of disaster with my dual setup.

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Re: [UPDATE P4 3.0@3.4]*pics* Ducted Sonata (with P4 2.66@1.

Post by Ralf Hutter » Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:09 pm

sthayashi wrote:
Ralf Hutter wrote:Don't get too excited yet. The P4P800 CPU temp displays about 7-9°C cooler than other typical mobos so you'll need to add that much to compensate for the low readings. In other words, your actual CPU idle temp is closer to 34° and your load temp is around 66°C. :)
Ralf, do you know if this temperature difference is applicable for all Asus boards, or just the P4P800? If it's for all boards, then I'm running on the ragged edge of disaster with my dual setup.
The only ones I know for sure are the P4P800, the P4P800-Deluxe, the P4C800, P4C800-Deluxe and P4C800E-Deluxe.

shathal
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Post by shathal » Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:52 pm

Is that down to "false advertising" sort of thing (a.k.a. "our boards run cooler"), or shoddy placement of the thermal sensors?

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Post by mwalt2 » Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:43 am

Well, most abit boards read between 8-10 C too high. Motherboard sensors tend to vary a lot which is why it's best to rely on an external thermal sensor if you're worried.

gksam, are your load temps. with only 1 instance of prime95 running? If so, then you are only using 50% of the processor if you have hyper-threading enabled. Most people usually run 2 instances of prime95, seti, etc to test for stability with p4c's.

gksam
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Post by gksam » Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:10 am

Hi. That was with 2 instances of prime95.

I think Ralf is right -- it probably is like 10oC or so too low on the reading... as my P4 2.26@2.66 read higher on a different board!


mwalt2 wrote:Well, most abit boards read between 8-10 C too high. Motherboard sensors tend to vary a lot which is why it's best to rely on an external thermal sensor if you're worried.

gksam, are your load temps. with only 1 instance of prime95 running? If so, then you are only using 50% of the processor if you have hyper-threading enabled. Most people usually run 2 instances of prime95, seti, etc to test for stability with p4c's.

Ralf Hutter
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Post by Ralf Hutter » Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:53 am

gksam wrote:I think Ralf is right --
Of course I'm right! :)

(If you use the search, you'll find references to me as some sort of deity, so I must be infallible, right?)

Nowhere_man
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Post by Nowhere_man » Tue Apr 27, 2004 2:30 pm

Do any of you know how much "off" the cpu temp reading of MSI P4 boards is?

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