Calling All Good Fans!

Control: management of fans, temp/rpm monitoring via soft/hardware

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RaNDoMMAI
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Post by RaNDoMMAI » Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:38 am

Hi mikeC

do u still need a 120mm aluminum fan to review?

Here

http://www.directron.com/directron/fanal12025b.html

I got this exaclt one from this store a little while ago after reviews here. i have to say i am not very pleased with it.

I would not mine sending u it, i was using it as my front fan for my BQE but it shakes the case to much and didnt lower the temp that much.

~RaNDoM

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Post by ADPBoss » Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:09 am

Mike,

I'm interested in sending you a couple of ARX Ceradyna model fans. If there is something else on your wishlist that can be found at ADPmods, let me know and I'm sure we can work something out.

I'll reply back later this week with some information once I talk to ARX and see what they are willing to sponsor through us.

Great forums btw. My customers have been raving about SPCR for awhile now. It's nice to finally find time to browse through the site.
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Post by dasman » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:29 pm

Mike,

If you need a reference for what is a bad fan :wink: , I have a couple of 80 and 92 mm Vantec Stealth's sitting here on the floor -- along with a bunch of different Sunon fans (all purchased before I found SPCR).

Dave

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Post by MikeC » Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:15 pm

Please, DON'T SEND BAD FANS! I have plenty myself!
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Post by dasman » Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:29 pm

MikeC wrote:Please, DON'T SEND BAD FANS! I have plenty myself!
You do know, I was kidding :lol: :lol: :lol:

Dave

Talz
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Post by Talz » Sat Mar 06, 2004 11:58 pm

I would suggest the Coolermaster LED fans using their 'rifle bearing' would be interesting to compare. Especially at 5-7 volts. I don't have any extra of that type left, I'll see if I have anything worth sending out though.

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Post by HammerSandwich » Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:11 pm

I just emailed Maxpoint about providing Enermax samples.

patord
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Post by patord » Sun Mar 07, 2004 5:02 pm

MikeC wrote: Tell you what -- why don't you download the xl file & add the data you want and send it to me when you're done & we'll make that our base fan database.
Guess I did volunteer myself didn't I. 8)

I'll email you when the revisions are done (may take some time due to work and travel).

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Post by Gooserider » Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:00 pm

Mike,

My fan collection includes the following:

"OEM" Panaflo FBK12G12LH, 120 X 38mm 2 wire, w/ funky tails
Delta WFB1212M 120 X 25mm 3 wire, PC brd tail
Sanyo Denki "San Ace" 109R1212H101, 120 X 38mm, 3 wire, bare lead.

The Delta is unusual in that it is a thin profile 120mm, chosen because I have a fan mount in my case that doesn't have enough room for a 38mm thick unit.

The SD fan was chosen for having a very high volume and static pressure rating, while still having a fairly low (<35db) noise rating, I'll be using it to pull air through a rad and filter so I needed a stout fan.

Both of these fans were low cost models purchased from Electronic Goldmine, and may not be current production models.

The OEM Panaflo is one of the ones that periodically shows up on E-bay in large lots then gets resold through SPCR in smaller quantities. It is supposedly a ball bearing unit that is quieter than the 'hydrowave' retail Panaflo 120's.

Do you have interest in testing any or all of these on a loaner basis? Let me know and I can get them on the way to you.

Gooserider
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Post by MikeC » Sun Mar 07, 2004 10:07 pm

Gooserider --

I think not. Already have a couple of those Panaflos. As for the others, anything that's non-standard or difficult to get, I think should stay off this list. No point testing something that's really hard to find or discontinued.
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Post by Gooserider » Tue Mar 09, 2004 5:29 pm

No prob, just though I should offer.... I look forward to seeing the results whenever you get the stuff you do test done.

Gooserider
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Magic
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Post by Magic » Sun Mar 14, 2004 1:15 am

Mike...

Is your plan to release everything at once? Any chance of doing them one size at a time, so we get results faster? If so, please consider starting with 120mm fans and working your way down...

Thanks!

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Post by PiSan » Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:11 am

If the database becomes comprehensive (and famous) enough, companies will be sending you fans left and right :wink: .

Sorry I have no fans or skills worth aiding the project, but I wish you good luck and don't get stressed out over it!
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Post by snutten » Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:50 am

Seems to be few good 92 mm fans. I suggest you try Papst 3412 92mm 23 dBa. Mine works fine.
(No need to try the Papst 8412 NGML 19 dBa, which I saw in a list here. It doesn´t behave well with PWM at low speeds.)

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Post by a3ot » Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:38 pm

Mike,
On the first page of this thread someone suggested not testing 60mm fans because no one around here uses them anyway. Please disregard that request as 60mm fans are often times the only option for popular flex/micro atx cases that are used for point of sale computers all over the place. Rack mount cases often cannot use larger fans as well. And anyone that has had to spend any amount of time in a server room would appreciate efforts to reduce the noise level in such an environment.

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Post by Edward Ng » Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:40 pm

And, ironically, they are the least reviewed (if ever!). As much as it's a shame that so many micro/flex-ATX/ITX cases use them, it sort of makes sense, since they're the only ones small enough to fit.

Does anyone even make quiet 60mm fans, though? Probably move close to no air. :?

-Ed
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Post by Trip » Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:04 am

a3ot wrote:Mike,
On the first page of this thread someone suggested not testing 60mm fans because no one around here uses them anyway. Please disregard that request as 60mm fans are often times the only option for popular flex/micro atx cases that are used for point of sale computers all over the place. Rack mount cases often cannot use larger fans as well. And anyone that has had to spend any amount of time in a server room would appreciate efforts to reduce the noise level in such an environment.
I'm going to send 3 ADDA - I should have already sent them :oops: ; I'll be sure to send them today.

The catch is that these are extremely low speed fans!

YS Tech, Papst, and ADDA make good 60mm that are a bit faster.

http://www.overclockers.com/articles261/

Other sizes of fans and those new YS Tech 70mm fans, ie. PD07015012BX would be interesting.

I've read that ADDA 40mm fans are relatively quiet.

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Post by Magic » Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:04 am

Hi Mike...

Were you able/are you able to get the Nexus 120mm fan for testing?

And it would be great if you could test the fixed speed acoustifans as well.

Thanks!

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Post by Trip » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:31 pm

Y'know how 2 80mm fans can push the same CFM at lower dBA than a single 120mm at the low end of their CFM range.

It looks like 2 60mm fans can push the same CFM at lower dBA than a single 80mm at the low end of their CFM range.

Based on: http://phamcomputer.safeshopper.com/43/cat43.htm?977

If it's true, this knowledge could be useful with... err... designing a new case for a low power system.

I wonder how far down this goes... it looks like it ends with the 60mm fans. NO 40 mm fans have good CFM/dbA

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Post by Trip » Mon May 03, 2004 12:10 am

slot blower fan review would be interesting too.

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Post by AZBrandon » Thu May 06, 2004 6:18 pm

Trip wrote:I'm going to send 3 ADDA - I should have already sent them :oops: ; I'll be sure to send them today.

The catch is that these are extremely low speed fans!
My Biostar ideq (SFF) uses a 60mm case fan, and in fact on top of the one I have not being very quiet, it seems to have a bearing problem and the fan just kind of rattles around any time it's spinning. It moves air just fine and hasn't broken yet, but you can hear it making kind of a vibration/rattling noise any time it's spinning. So... I'm very interested in any quiet 60mm fans.

If that Adda 16db fan really is as quiet as advertized, that would be my personal choice. I would just need to find some place that sells that particular model. The linked website above is for Pham Computer which has an update as follows:
Effective on Feb. 2, 2004 PHAM Computer will no longer offer full time service. All orders and e-mails will be processed and answered on a weekly basis over the weekend. Be sure to check back with us for more special deals as we clear out our inventory in the next couple of months.

I would also like to personally thank all buyers and visitors that have supported us over the years, it was a pleasure serving every single one of you. Don't worry, this is not a goodbye for PHAM Computer as I will return from time to time with new product pictures and information!
I don't really want to buy from a place that is some guy's part time project rather than a real business. Does anyone know of any place else that stocks this particular fan? I've been unable to find it available through any other sites so far. The only other easy to find quiet fan seems to be the Vantec Stealth, which is rated at 1cfm less and 4 db more noise (12cfm, 20db), so I'd rather not go that route unless nothing else is available.
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Post by Trip » Thu May 06, 2004 6:52 pm

i bought my fans from him. Another interesting fan that will push more air is the Sunon Vapo bearing 60mm. I'll find the thread and post it - there's a place that sells them.

http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewto ... 3902#93902

EDIT: actually, those numbers don't look as good as they did the other night...

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Re: Calling All Good Fans!

Post by _Nickel_ » Fri May 07, 2004 2:56 am

MikeC wrote: 4) measure airflow for these best fans at 5, 7, 10 and 12V
Interesting project! We've had something similar over at silenthardware.de but they had no means of objectively measuring airflow. How do you intend to do that?

I could contribute some Levicom Ceramic 2000rpm fans, which are, in Germany, considered to be just about the quietest fans at 5V that still give you some airflow. Only problem is, I am currently using them and would need to get some replacements first (I am trying to get some cheap L1As over the big pond).
Also if you were willing to pay for Papst fans I could buy some for cheap here and send them along (they would be tested not to produce the annoying noises that Papsts sometimes produce; of course you would only need to pay me after you get them).

Since this is my first post, I guess a short introduction would be in place. I have lurking occasionally around here for the past 6 months, but spend most of my time at silenthardware.de, discussing the stuff I can actually buy in Germany. I haven't been to silentPCreview for some time and just noticed this project and found it interresting enough to register.

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Post by the_smell » Fri May 07, 2004 3:20 am

You could get a very small anemometer, and then get a hamster to opperate it (just cause it would be cute :) ).
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Post by chujamibatami » Sat May 29, 2004 2:05 pm

One thing I think you should consider - all comparisons should be made at the same airflow level, NOT same voltage level. . The idea of comparing fans at 5,7,12v level is very stupid, as it doesn't show true performance to silence ratio. For ex. if you compare two fans, and results are:
fan 1: 7v , 21cfm - 21db
fan 2: 7v, 26cfm - 23db
Then looking at these results you can't tell which is quiter at 21cfm(with undervolted #2) or 26cfm (with overvolted #1). Comparisons like this are completely worthless, and it really amazes my why this methodology (or rather lack of methodology) is still used in fan comparsions.

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Post by Edward Ng » Sat May 29, 2004 2:15 pm

:shock:
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Post by dasman » Sat May 29, 2004 6:35 pm

Chu...

FWIW, while I think "stupid" is more than a little strong, I have to agree that comparisons based on airflow make more sense. Can I assume you want to see a comparison similar to this thread?

Note that the airflows listed in that thread are not measured but are based on the assumption that airflow is linear with voltage. I'm not sure if that is really the case or not...


Dave

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Post by chujamibatami » Sat May 29, 2004 11:30 pm

Dave,
Excuse me "stupid" word, english it's not my native language and sometimes I can't find good words to describe things. The comparison you gave also miss the point, because its base value is RPM not CFM. RPM gives unclear idea about silence and airflow.
Voltage is not linear with airflow, from thread you give, I'll show airflow lineary calculated and measured:

Acoustifan:
11v - measured 1825 (base for calculations)
9v - measured 1550, calculated 1493 (+4%)
7v - measured 1250, calculated 1161 (+7%)
5v - measured 980, calculated 829 (+18%)

So, airflow is far linear from voltage. I think that sound level is even less linear to voltage (unfortunately author didnt measure sound level). Of course we can evalute non-linear function which would give better estimations, but always there will be estimations, and such function will be diferent for diferent fans. IMHO the only way to compare diferent fans (even with diferent sizes) is to measure their true "performance to sound level" ratio, which can be calculated by measuring their sound level at locked cfm, not voltage nor RPM. Silence is most important to us, but second is performance, not voltage or RPM! Measuring sound level using today methods (for 12v, 7v, 5v or for set of RPM's) will never give us true image of fan performance and will leave room for wide interpretation.

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Post by MikeC » Sun May 30, 2004 9:34 am

chujamibatami --

I agree measuring / recording noise at standard CFMs would probably be a better strategy because it is true CFM : COOLING POWER correlate better than voltage : cooling power. But the standard voltages measurements are not w/o validity either, esp as CFM was going to be measured at each of the voltages. The two methods provide similar information with different emphasis. Still, because CFM relates more directly to COOLING POWER, it is what I will use. The 1st post will be edited to reflect this change.
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Post by Sizzle » Thu Jun 03, 2004 8:25 am

MikeC,
I have a extra SilenX 80 mm 14 dba fan laying around from www.silenx.com if you would like to test it.
[size=75]C2Q Q6600, 120 Ultra/AC PWM. Asus P5N32-E SLI, 8 gb Crucial Ballistix Tracer DDR2, Asus Silent 9600GT, 2x Aver PCIE Combo, 2x Hitachi 7K200 200gb, Asus DVD-E616A3T, Asus DRW-2014BLT. Silverstone MFP51. Coolermaster Stacker 690, Corsair HX520W. MS Wireless Entertainment Desktop 8000. Westinghouse L2410NM. Vista64 Ultimate[/size]

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