Finding the perfect 120mm fan is so, so hard.

JohnMK · Post by **JohnMK** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:43 pm

I'm so upset. I bought an ARM Systems Stealth barebones kit case w/ PSU, fans, etc. Like $300 or whatnot. Both 120mm fans that came with the kit were dysfunctional at low voltage. Did not like the low voltage that they were fed, shaked & rattled with the voltage supplied by the Zalman fan control units supplied with the case, knobs twisted by ARM Systems Stealth personnel themselves to an appropriate level. They must not have turned on the fans & listened for themselves that their fan choice just did not work.

So I posted here about my experience several months ago and someone recommended the Papst fans. Picked them up. Both Papst fans I received made a not too dissimilar noise at low voltage. Like a click at around 10Hz or so. And possibily other noises as well. Definitely not the nirvana other people have enjoyed. $50 down the drain in experimentation.

Put up with that for a few months (well, actually, I put up with it for about one day, then I took both fans out and just left the side of the case off for the past few months). Recently bought some Aluminum Evercool fans, single bearing for $8 per. Two of them. Both have the same problem as the original fans from ARM Systems & Papst.

Where do I go next? How can I go wrong with six fans in a row? Is it just that hard to find decent 120mm fans? Tell me what to buy and I'll buy it.

Thanks!

Becks · Post by **Becks** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:04 pm

From what I've read, seen... Nexus or Globe.

Nexus I think you're guarenteed a quiet fan, only problem is they start off pretty quiet with little airflow, if you need more than that they're no help. But they don't have a problem being turned down V as far as I've seen, and have no noise wtih PWM.

Globe, I've got 3, I lvoe them. At 12v they are loud, or at least not quiet, not motor noise or bearing noise, its just the amount of air its not quiet. I have no problems with them down to 6V, never tried below that, I use PWM on them and they have no problems with it.. I read once someone had some wierd noise with glboe fans, either I don't hear it, or its being very picky (when compared to other options).

msm_zgok · Post by **msm_zgok** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:08 pm

Nexus 120mm at Silicon Acoustics. They're in WA too and I think UPS ground will take like a day just to deliver the goods.

Post by **MikeC** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 11:30 pm

Prelim conclusion of survey of large number of 120mm fans:

The Nexus has no equal for quietness at 12V. It blows 36~40cfm only, compared to nearly double that w/many 120mm fans; for many it will still not be quiet enough. But it ramps down very smoothly, there is no clicking or other nasty artifacts (w/straight voltage reduction). At 9V it's pretty dang quiet, still pushes close to 30cfm; have not measured dBA yet, but will do so soon.

It's quieter than any other 120mm fans I've tried.

EDIT: 1am, great time to measure dBA -- room ambient is ~16dBA. The Nexus 120 fan measures:

21-22 dBA/1m @12V
18 dBA/1m @9V
= or <17 dBA/1m @7V. Too close to ambinet to be accurate; could be much less. Still moves a decent amt of air -- but over wide area. Pretty much inaudible except from under 1' -- in this quiet a room.

Actually spins up at just 5V.

yngveam · Post by **yngveam** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:30 am

The most quiet 120 mm fan I ever have tried is this one:
Smartcooler LFx1512M
It starts and runs at 5 volts. I just can't hear it. Other fans I have tried is Papst and SilenX but the Smartcooler is the best.

I hope for a SPCR review of some Smartcooler fans...

Smartcooler: http://www.smartcooler.de

~Yngve

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:38 am

Smartcooler is not a manufacturer, but a brand. They put their own label on products manufactured by OEM's and sell them in (only) five European countries. Since the reviewers of SPCR live in North America and only a few readers of SPCR live in those five countries, I don't think it is worth the effort to review any of Smartcooler's products. JohnMK will have a hard time finding them too, since he lives in Seattle.

If you closely examine your fan, maybe you can find some hints as to the true manufacturer of the fan.

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:53 am

MikeC wrote:21-22 dBA/1m @12V

Don't you love it when data published by the company is really the truth?

Only problem with undervolting Nexus 120mm is it uses molex for power. Just a little nuisance.

davidstone28 · Post by **davidstone28** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 7:07 am

Agree about the Nexus, although I guess as with all fans, there are manufacturing variances. I've bought 2 from the same retailer 6 months apart. The first one (which was a lighter shade of orange) is as quiet as can be. The second one (which is darker orange) has a noticeable buzziness at anything over 800rpm.

Tibors · Post by **Tibors** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:57 am

burcakb wrote:Only problem with undervolting Nexus 120mm is it uses molex for power. Just a little nuisance.

All three Nexus fans (80, 92 & 120mm) I bought last month have the same connectors. They can be powered from either a 4-pin molex or a 3-pin mobo header.

ferdb · Post by **ferdb** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 3:40 pm

The Nexus fans I have also have both 3 and 4 pin connectors on them. I'd have to agree that the Nexus and Globe fans are the best I've found so far for undervolted 120mm fans, but they are only 25mm thick and do not flow air that well against backpressure such as that from a radiator. They are quiet when undervolted and don't have that diesel engine idling noise that the 120x38 Panaflo, Papst, or Sunons have. They are weak on airflow though. I managed to rip a Panaflo apart and modify the coil drive circuits to smooth it out and it greatly reduces that chugging noise when undervolted but the modifications reduce the top RPM at 12V and it tends to run roughly at 12V. The coil drive transistors also tend to overheat at full 12V so it's not an ideal solution. Another option I'm considering is using 120V AC Panaflos and putting a power resistor in series to reduce the RPM. This will probably give me a pretty quiet fan but it won't be easily adjustable. The panaflos seem to have the lowest bearing noise when compared to the Sunon and Papst. The Papst 120x38 fans are not quiet.

Wex · Post by **Wex** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:55 pm

What about these???: http://www.thermalfx.com/merchant2/merc ... y_Code=120

DrCR · Post by **DrCR** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:35 pm

Wex wrote:What about these???: http://www.thermalfx.com/merchant2/merc ... y_Code=120

No, that's a horrible fan blade design.

Here's the rundown on what I've learned about the quiet 120mm axial fans on the market. Feel free to comment on the following if you believe any aspect of it to not be completely correct. If it's not on this list then it's probably not a quiet fan. But go ahead and ask anyway, esp. if it is a more obscure fan.

Hum, I'll think I should put this in a new thread of its own.

Edit: New thread: The Top SPCR Quiet 120mm Axial Fans Compared

Unlike the Japanaflo 80mm, the Panaflo 120mm is not really considered in the quiet fan category among silence gurus. Rather unfortunate as this is a 38mm thick fan (better in restrictive environments than the more common 25mm thick fans).

Papst 4412 fans are very nice when undervolted on DC current. They are one of the best quiet 120mm fans for restrictive environments. They don't like PWM though. Purely noise wise, they fall in the quiet, but not the most quiet category. The Nexus and Globe options are quieter.

Note: Both the Papsts and the Panaflos seem to be degrading in quality overall. The Panaflos seem to be degrading more so then the Papsts though.

The Evercool / Titan 120mm aluminum 120mm fans are pretty good quiet fans for a low restrictive environment @ <5V DC (lower than most other fans can undervolt). They also, like the Papsts, don't like PWM very much.

The Nexus "Real Quiet Fans" are excellent fans in the 80mm, 92mm, and 120mm categories. They work flawlessly on PWM and undervolt on DC well considering their low 12V CFM. The only thing I don't like about the 120mm is its orange color (that might be a plus to others though), its rather low 12V CFM numbers, and price compared to the Globes. Not as good as the Papst 4412 in a restrictive environment. You can buy then at www.endpcnoise.com at a cool $20 per fan.

And then there's the Globe S1202512L-3M. Works flawlessly on PWM, undervolts on DC very well, and is one of the absolute quiets fans around when operated with either of these two wattage regulators. You can buy them at www.mnpctech.com for only $8 per fan. I doubt it works in restrictive environments as well as the 4412, but since it has a better CFM/noise ratio than the 4412 it might not matter at all. And with its ~65CFM at 12V, it is also a great choice for when you’re willing to give up some quietness for extra CFM (example, max overclock bragging rights).

Hope this helps some here.

DrCR

_________

Wex · Post by **Wex** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:43 pm

I am aware that the quality of Panaflo's are inconsistent. Some people get good ones, some get bad. Hopefully, since these OEM's are not made anymore, are a good quality fan made in Japan. One question for you: Have you owned one of these 120mm OEM Panaflo's? If you have, then I would have to agree with you on how you see 120mm Panaflo's. But would you agree that this Panaflo is better than the 120mm's sold today?

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:46 pm

Ralf Hutter and I have both use 120mm FBKs for our case fans. At 5v, I find it to be rather quiet.

DrCR · Post by **DrCR** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:49 pm

Wex wrote: But would you agree that this Panaflo is better than the 120mm's sold today?

Oh absolutely. I started a new thread (The Top SPCR Quiet 120mm Axial Fans Compared) in which I posted a clearer stance on this fan. That being a 'good' one at a low DC voltage is quiet, but not the absolute quietest option. Personally I've basically concluded finding a 'good' one isn't worth it for my new setups and esp. for a newbie looking for a quiet setup. If you using one and I know you or perceive you to be a genuine silent enthusiast, then I will most assuredly not consider you as non 'hard-core' or anything, but rather that you have a good one.

DrCR

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JohnMK · Post by **JohnMK** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:48 am

I bought two of the Global fans from mnpctech.com and they are nearly perfect. Thank you folks for your kind help.

Interitus · Post by **Interitus** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 1:25 am

DrCR wrote:
Wex wrote:What about these???: http://www.thermalfx.com/merchant2/merc ... y_Code=120
No, that's a horrible fan blade design.

Horrible as in it makes you sick that its that quiet? That's the best 120x38 fan Ive ever heard at ANY voltage. Just bought another last week. Rest assured it's going in my new case too. Would use a Globe 120x25 but I want the extra oomph that the 38mm's give.

ferdb · Post by **ferdb** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:02 am

Wex wrote:I am aware that the quality of Panaflo's are inconsistent. Some people get good ones, some get bad. Hopefully, since these OEM's are not made anymore, are a good quality fan made in Japan. One question for you: Have you owned one of these 120mm OEM Panaflo's? If you have, then I would have to agree with you on how you see 120mm Panaflo's. But would you agree that this Panaflo is better than the 120mm's sold today?

The Oem blue label panaflo's are only marginally better than the current 120x38mm panaflos. I have multiple samples of both. They are not worth bothering with.

jamevay · Post by **jamevay** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:59 am

http://www.thermaltake.com/dcfans/led/t ... ade120.htm

has anyone used these thermal take fans? ther are rated at 21dBa and 71CFM. if the airflow comes any were near 71, its incredible.

thermaltake also has a 92mm fan with 21dBA and 51 CFM. i have seen reviews on that and they vouch for claim

Post by **MikeC** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:08 am

jamevay wrote:http://www.thermaltake.com/dcfans/led/t ... ade120.htm

has anyone used these thermal take fans? ther are rated at 21dBa and 71CFM. if the airflow comes any were near 71, its incredible.

thermaltake also has a 92mm fan with 21dBA and 51 CFM. i have seen reviews on that and they vouch for claim

Rule of thumb to understanding Adv / Marketingspeak: "If it seems too good to be true, it is not true."

You can't break rules of physics: Just the turbulence of such airflow through a 120mm diameter hole (without any blades chopping at the air) would probably exceed 21 dBA/1m. It could only be 21 dBA if the meter was placed 30 feet away. At 1m? Come on!!

ferdb · Post by **ferdb** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:08 pm

I had also once hoped that dBA/1m specs would be helpful in finding a quiet fan. My opinion now is that they are utterly useless to an astonishing degree. Ignore any dbA readings manufacturers claim for their fans, they cannot be used to compare fans with in any usefull way.
There seem to be 3 major types of noise from fans.
1) Motor noise - from the sudden coil switching and torque pulses they impart to the motor. Generally makes clicking and/or thumping type noises. You can also get high pitched whines.
2) Bearing noise - this is the scratchy rotation related noise.
3) Air/fan blade noise - This is mostly dependent on fan RPM, the blade design seems to be secondary to this.

Since most fans can be speed controlled by varying the voltage the most important differences between fans that sound quiet and those that don't become motor and bearing noise. Ball bearings are to be avoided as they make too much noise. Motor noise you just have to try them or read the posts around here for recommendations. There don't seem to be any 120x38 DC fans that don't have a significant amount of motor noise, and I have tried a lot of 120mm fans. My recommendation is to use a Nexus 120x25, it has a better airflow to noise ratio than any other 120mm DC fan. If a Nexus at 12V doesn't generate enough airflow for you, you're drifting into territory where bearing and motor noise are being swamped out by the airflow noise and you should go for a 120x38mm fan. The Sunons have lower motor noise than the Papst or Panaflos, but I haven't been able to get them in anything but a ballbearing model so they have considerable bearing noise, as do the panaflos and papst. They are all actually fairly close to each other.
If you must have the quietest 120x38mm fan then you have to go AC and use a Sunon 2123XST 230Vac fan and run it on 120V. You can reduce the rpm further by putting a 2watt resistor of 270 to 750 ohms in series with it. This has the best airflow to noise ratio of any 120mm fan and it does better than the 25mm thick fans with backpressure such as on a radiator for water cooling.

Finding the perfect 120mm fan is so, so hard.

Finding the perfect 120mm fan is so, so hard.

Has any one used Thermaltake fans

Re: Has any one used Thermaltake fans