Sale: Panaflo 80mm L1A @ $5.00 CAD

Control: management of fans, temp/rpm monitoring via soft/hardware

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

Post Reply
rocarpen
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:42 am
Location: Vancouver, BC

Sale: Panaflo 80mm L1A @ $5.00 CAD

Post by rocarpen » Thu Feb 03, 2005 12:44 am

Hey folks,

Thread title must be pretty self explanatory, but here's the details. Vancouver online shop Vibe Computers is selling Panaflo 80mm FBA08A12L fans right now at the low low price of $5.00:

http://www.vibecomputers.com/index.cfm? ... vID=200910

I'm picking up at least two, for a Dual Xeon rig I'm building. Anyways, hope someone finds this useful!

Edit: I apologise - this probably belongs in the 'Deals, Vendors & Classifieds' forum instead. Mods, please feel free to move this if you need to.

sgksgk
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:14 am

Post by sgksgk » Fri Feb 04, 2005 6:37 pm

that's pretty cheap. have u gotta any? r those made in china or japan?

EvoFire
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 2004 10:06 pm
Location: Vancouver, BC
Contact:

Post by EvoFire » Sat Feb 05, 2005 11:16 am

on the site it says "fans come with bare wires only" what is that suppose to mean??

mathias
Posts: 2057
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:58 pm
Location: Toronto
Contact:

Post by mathias » Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:28 pm

EvoFire wrote:on the site it says "fans come with bare wires only" what is that suppose to mean??
It means they're a bunch of cheap bastards and expect you to do some soldering and to scavenge a 3 or 4 pin tail of some other fan. :lol:

frankgehry
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:00 am
Location: New York, NY

panoflos

Post by frankgehry » Sat Feb 05, 2005 12:55 pm

You can get guaranteed japanese panoflos at this site. That's really what you want. I think they are $7 apiece.

http://www.jab-tech.com/customer/home.php?cat=79&page=2

Bare wires means you don't get a connector.

Sgt_Strider
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:49 pm

Post by Sgt_Strider » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:26 am

Will they solder the cable on to the fan if you ask them to? Is it hard to do it yourself?

frankgehry
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:00 am
Location: New York, NY

pahaflo tails

Post by frankgehry » Sun Feb 06, 2005 12:36 am

Sgt,

There's no charge for the standard 3 pin connector without any sheathing. Sheathing is just plastic tubing that goes around the three wires (not needed).
They charge $.50 for a molex connector and you can choose the color of the sheathing. Again you don't need the sheathing and you don't need a molex connector unless you intend to connect the fan directly to the psu. You can always do this stuff later if you want to or you could have them do it for $.50 - FG

The molex connector just gets in the way usually.

jafb2000
-- Vendor --
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2003 2:59 pm

Post by jafb2000 » Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:44 am

frankgehry wrote:You can get guaranteed japanese panoflos at this site.
That's really what you want. I think they are $7 apiece.
If the picture code is correct, that is a 5yr old design.

April 2004 - Panasonic Panaflo ceased.
o Minebea & Panaflo merged after long working together
---- Minebea/NMB = Ball-bearings, Fluid bearings in HDs, silly price Keyboards
---- Panaflo = Fluid bearings in fans (Pivot, Hydrowave & Laptop fluid dynamic bearing)
o Merged company Minebea-Panaflo is called M3
---- Minebea-Matsushita-Motor (MMM, hence the name M3)

NMB/Panaflo shared the patent on the fluid dynamic bearing,
and NMB/Panaflo developed the Alliance Fan Blade design IIRC.

June 2004
o Minebea-Panaflo make QC changes to various fan models
o Denoted by fan codes starting 4F/4G/4H/4I/4J/4K
o Hence the boxes became Minebea Matsushita Motor, not Panasonic

Distributors hold stock = creates lag in the system.
o So there is always a lag before new product arrives
o Took until late ~Nov04 for the later spec fans to come thro

All latest spec are in the 4F-4K range, and various changes:
o latest FBA08A12L1A (4H) have a different rotor, tight QC
o latest FBA09A12L1BX (4H) have a quieter & smoother sound, tight QC

The old Japan version & FBA09A12L1A were dropped re variations,
the FBA08A12L1A hadn't been made in Japan for a very long time.

The merged M3, Minebea-Panaflo have their HQ in Osaka Japan.
o NMB have 50 plants producing 120M fans per year with ~2,000 staff
---- rest of their staff are involved in R&D, Engineering etc
---- eg, NMB USA R&D centre & NMB UK R&D centre
o Panaflo had 3 plants producing 12M fans per year with 10x the staff
---- hence heavy job cutting and restructing to create MMM, M3

Combined, they have a lot of capability for the Panaflo range.

Current Fans:
o 4F-4K are the last changes, the box is MMM not Panasonic
o Supply with be feeble for reasons clearer if you read on

Future fans, Nov-Dec05:
o More fan sizes -- including 100mm or something re BTX
o Deeper fans -- most probably 38mm re G code (like FBA12G)
o Laptop fans -- most probably OEM, very good, very pricey

Supply is feeble as product change gives way to supply-chain change.
o Minebea/NMB & Panaflo had their own Warehouses & Distribution
---- put another way, duplication = waste
o Many distribution centres & warehouses are closing
---- eg, Kent Wa no longer holds Panaflo

Plant capability is also improved:
o in number, in automation, in vertical integration vs outsourcing
o in ability to support more fans, better supply & more options

That means some disruption to supply:
o Panasonic are pulling old stock "back up the chain"
---- from old warehouses, old distributors & old integrators
o Panasonic are then putting that old stock "back down into the chain"
---- which means picking the latest/best gets more difficult

That old supply is being put into the supply chain - at various
ages from 48 months to 18 months. There is also the usual supply
from the surplus, liquidation & returns.

Extra supply also means new production is limited, since distributors
have plenty of old 01, 02, 03, 3C, 3K stock. Channel Stuffing period.

Old-stock & surplus combined means "product variability".


As yet the M3 name as no logo - just Minebea Matsushita Motor logo.
o The fans may remain differently labelled re NMB & Panaflo
---- the bearing differences will remain of course
o Alternatively the word Panaflo may be merged into an M3 background
---- no label changes as the corporation logo isn't decided as yet

Nov-Dec05 may see a new S spec - S would be below L, M, H & U.
To create an S you obviously require lower noise-motor-ic, lower friction
bearing, and generally tighter QC - hence the changes to date to fans.
In addition new capacity is needed as supply has often "sucked". The
2004 Q3 delivery of 120L1A (G/H) was below 100 fans, improved a bit now.

Eventually there may be an implementation of the various bearings & rotors:
o Bearings
---- Pivot -- cheap, shorter-life, low noise
---- Hydrowave fluid dynamic bearing -- pricey, now revised
---- FDB like a HD -- silly price, may already exist in some laptop fans (£39+)
o Rotors
---- Alliance rotor -- most advanced blade ever produced
-------- 25% more airflow and at the same time 15% lower noise levels
-------- imagine airflow of an M for the noise level of an S (below L)

The Alliance rotor/fan was piloted in Nov2003 (H2-2003) in the FBZ 60x25mm.
o The figures were stunning, but it was a short run
o I suspect Alliance came from Minebea+Panaflo (now merged to create MMM or M3)
o The release perhaps blocked by the later Apr04 merger to create M3

Much is being integrated into the new model fans:
o I don't believe there are plans to run an FBZ line alongside FBA
---- for one thing the FBZ was the inferior life Pivot vs high-end Hydrowave
o So I suspect the best attributes will be merged
---- usefully allowing perhaps S spec fans - altho unclear re Dec05 or late 2006

M3 Minebea-Panaflo are moving heavily into using its motors, ball-bearing
& fluid dynamic bearings into other markets - jet engines recently, autos,
and the broad automotive marketplace. Electric power steering etc.
Hence EBM & Papst merged the two brands to create EBM-Papst, and now the
two super-tier-1 EBM-Papst v M3 are going to fight it out in the auto mkt.

Bearing life on the Panaflo is now eating at both NMB & Papst's top fans,
and is likely to move more in that direction in the future. Indeed NMB have
a value line which seems oddly miss-placed next to the Panaflo line, with
NMB needing to be Extended or Reference to significantly match or exceed.
So there is an interesting product mix problem for distributors.


The latest of the various models are 4H/I/K for 120mm L, 4J for 80mm H,
4H & 4J for 80mm M, 4H for 92mm L1BX, 4H for 60mm L1BX & no idea what
Feb brings (4H, 4K). The rotor changed on 4G & 4H on 80mm L, 4F were
the first past the QC changes. The 92mm L also has been revised (nice).

Distributors stock consists of a mix:
o Latest model 4F-4K, post merger, post changes
o Old stock 1, 2, 3, 3C, 3K - 3C & 3K need filtering, 4A-4C also
o Substituting stock you've never seen before
---- OEM supply passed back up, eg, 80mm L-1BS in place of L-1A
---- functionally the same spec (both locked-rotor, 2-wire)
---- acoustically 10% of 3C 1BS match 97% of the 4F 4G 4H re 80mm L1A
o Old stock of once unavailable models
---- anyone wanting FBL 120mm, now more about but 24-48 months old
---- twice the price of FBA, and largely not worth the £25+ price

There is a fair amount of production line selection within the codes.
Minebea are going to increase supply - so new production lines.
o Panaflo used to use outsource - so depended on the inbound QC
---- that changed with 4F, June 2004, after the 4A 4B 4C screwup
---- 80% of 4A 4B 4C were returned by me, 20% were better than Japan tho
---- however the broader market probably got & sold the other 80% :-)
o Minebea-Panaflo are fully vertically integrated
---- raw material in, finished product out, few humans, lots of SPC & QC

All 4H in 80mm have the improved rotor assembly:
o Rotors actually sit centrally on the shaft (at last :-)
o Rotors are different, making axial & radial alignment better
o Rotor sits better re less axial runout (so less vibration)

No 1BX option in L yet, altho when the supply/spec stabilises I will add
them. I very very much doubt there will be an S1BX, re tacho chipset.

Similar changes apply to Papst incidentally.

So variation in Panaflo is due to production & where from.
The latest are as above - and supply in true Panaflo style "sucks".

Will be interesting to see what Nov-Dec05 brings, also will be interesting
how much support BTX eventually gets. Good for 1CPU, clumsy for 2CPU. The
heat output of dual-core looks exciting, buy power plants now :-)
Intel Inside, Cooked Consumer Outside.

frankgehry
Posts: 1424
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:00 am
Location: New York, NY

Very interesting

Post by frankgehry » Tue Feb 08, 2005 11:09 am

jafb2000,

That's very interesting. I had no idea all this was happening.
Thanks for the information. - FG

Operandi
Posts: 243
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 5:20 pm
Location: Wausau, WI
Contact:

Post by Operandi » Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:58 pm

jafb2000

Nice info but perhaps you could sum that up a bit and make more accessible.

Post Reply