Save me from the horrible PC noise monster! (Help with fans)

Aphex · Post by **Aphex** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:22 pm

After more than two months of searching the forums, browsing the insanely long and confusing recommended fan lists, and STILL not coming to a good conclusion as to which fans would be the best for me, I need your help, silent pc gurus.

I'm looking to buy the following fans:

2x 80mm for my X-Connect power supply (probably panaflo L1As)

3x 92mm for my case

2x 80mm to replace the shitty thermaltake ones in my case as well

Now here's the pinch with the case fans. I have to have fans with the little yellow control wires - since I have a fan controller installed. So, all the fans noted with my case need to have a yellow wire.

Also, it would be GREAT if I could get silent fans WITH led lights.
Lastly, I can't install any 120mm fans in my case, so sadly that's not an option.

My questions are:

1. What are the best fans, with led lights, for my case as listed?

2. Are Panaflo L1As really the best 80mm fans for my power supply?

3. I noticed Noiseblocker fans are really good 80mm options - but I can't find anywhere that sells them in the US! Where can I buy them, if they are the best 80mm option?

cyberknight · Post by **cyberknight** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:04 pm

I think Arctic Cooling makes awesome 80mm fans. Go for their TC (Thermally Controlled) versions.

There's the Pro TC, which is plain black and 25mm thick. And then there is the Pro 2L TC, which has a blue LED and is 35mm thick. Liittle bit louder than the plain black counterpart.

Nexus, always quiet, highly recommended, all sizes.

I also like Antec fans. Generally too loud at 12V, but they undervolt nicely with minimal motor noise. Of course, there are the SmartCool and TriCool variants.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:19 pm

Is there a reason you need the little yellow wire for fan control? All fan control does is on the '12v' and ground lines. Some fan controls utilize RPM-out for feedback, but they're generally not necessary.

Speaking of things that aren't necessary, 3x92mm + 2x80mm for a case is one of them. You can save money by simplying eliminating fans and finding out which ones you actually need to replace.

As for your questions, the only one I can answer is #3. No, Noiseblockers are not considered to be the best available. Nexus is generally considered the best 80mm option for silence. Panaflo L1A or M1A are the next best options (more airflow w/ slightly more noise).

Aphex · Post by **Aphex** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:51 pm

Thanks for the replies guys.

The reason I need the yellow wires is for RPM monitoring - I forgot to mention that. (I have a hardcano 9 unit installed).

Keep in mind that this is a very serious gaming rig with a P4 2.6c and a Leadtek 6800 GT. So while I've accepted the fact that I can't get it silent, I would like to get it quiet. But, I still need good CFM ratings to cool my hot components. Which is why I balk a bit at the Nexus fans - they're supposedly the quietest fans out there, but I've read that their CFM suffers greatly as a result.

So what I need is a good compromise between dBA and CFM. Noise at 12V is not a concern at all - since the only time they'll be running that fast is when I'm gaming, and I don't care how loud they are when UT2004 is blasting away from the speakers.

But, and this is an important but, I sleep in the same room as the computer. So at night, I turn the fans down as low as they'll go (including my Zalman CNPS7000b cooler - my latest purchase made because of an SPCR recommendation!). So therefore, the fans must also be as silent as possible when at 5V/7V.

Thanks again for taking time to help. I love SPCR.

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:15 am

You're running a relatively cool system actually. People here are cooling P4 3.0C and hotter with 1 or 2 Nexus fans + PSU fans.

I'm not sure how many fans you have, but I'm no longer certain that case fans are necessarily the source of your noises. The 6800GT can be loud on its own.

Other things you could do for free is to cut out fan grills that are in place. They can restrict airflow significantly.

lm · Post by lm » Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:14 am

Are you sure that you couldn't use less than a total of 7 fans? My system has just 3 fans: 1*120mm inside psu, 1*120mm for case and 1*92mm on cpu.

All the best fans are non-led. For example papst, panaflo, nexus etc.

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:32 am

A,

To answer your question -
Your first choice should be Tek-chain fans. They are supposed to be really quiet and have a yellow wire and led's. You can get 120mm's from www.mnpctech.com and www.svc.com. svc also has 92mm. For the moment the only stores that seem to have 80mm's are in Europe, but I've ordered from three stores there and besides taking longer for delivery its really no different than ordering from a us store.

The other choice in 120mm is the D12SM-12 tekgem yate loon. Since you don't want 120mm fans I won't go into it.

I don't know where noiseblocker fans fit as far as being quiet, but if you want led fans there aren't many options. In Europe I've ordered from www.ichbinleise.de, www.pcsilent.com, and mcubed.

There are more options in non led fans but you can get quiet led fans if you want. Also I always get fans with rpm sensing (yellow wire) so I can read the speed on my fan controller. I just got a 120mm tek-chain, but haven't tested it yet. - FG

You could also call Bill Owen at www.mnpctech.com to see if he can get the 80mm tek-chain fans.

*Note: I shouldn't really suggest the tek-chain fans at this point. I just don't know enough about them yet, but I'm optimistic.

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 1:41 pm

Noiseblocker fans are only RELATIVELY quiet at full 12V - and that's just too loud for 95% of SPCR. They also click and the click becomes worse as you undervolt. Effectively a louder annoying click replaces the motor whine & air whoosh as you undervolt.

I've tried both the 80mm S2s and the 120mm Blacksilence Pro. Same results.

Speaking of things that aren't necessary, 3x92mm + 2x80mm for a case is one of them

^^^ totally agree with that.

Aphex · Post by **Aphex** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:06 am

I still don't really know which fans to buy. Thanks for the help, but the key points I really need an answer to again are, in order of importance:

1. Fan should be either 92mm or 80mm.
2. Needs to have a yellow control wire.
3. It's imperative for it to push good amounts of air ( > 30~35 CFM ) while on 12V (I don't care the least about the noise the fan makes at 12V); and be as quiet as it possibly can at 5V/7V, because this is the speed it'll be set to when I'm asleep.
4. LED light preferred.

Thanks again for the informative replies. I'm trying to push this discussion in the right direction because every day that goes by is another night I have to live with deafening thermaltake fans

. Please, think of the fans.

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:05 am

A,

Tek-Chain

- 4 Blue LED's
- Clear Fan Blades
- Blue tinted casing
- RPM Control Knob

Specifications
Dimension: 92x92x25mm
Bearing: Sleeve
Operating Voltage: 10.2 - 13.8
Input Current Max: 0.34
Speed RPM +/- 20%: 1200-2500
Air Flow: 43.3 CFM
Noise: 17 - 30.25 dBA

This is a 92mm fan for your case. For you psu you could use panaflo L1As. Call Bill Owen at www.mnpctech.com for his impression of the fan or/and I can compare the 120mm version to a nexus, globe, yate loon, acoustifan, papst, ys-tech, and a few others. If I left out anything let me know. - FG

A second choice for led fans would be antec as was mentioned earlier by CyberKnight. They will have led fans in 80 and 92mm sizes. I just remembered that I have an antec tri cool so I can test it against the tek-chain if you want. Read about it in the antec slk3000b review.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article210-page4.html

They have mp3 files of the nexus, globe, and antec. The antec at low and middle speeds should be fine. Just listen to the files and that should help you make your decision.

Aphex · Post by **Aphex** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:09 am

Frank, I can't tell you how much I appreicate this. Thank you so much.

It looks like this TekChain is the best candidate for the 92mm replacements; or, if you can really test it against an Antec tricool 92mm, perhaps the Antec would be better? Should be interesting to find out.

And as for the rest of the 80mms, I think I'll go with Panaflos - should I get L1As or M1As? Remember, I'm looking for decent CFM!

Thank you so much for your help!

EricTerminator · Post by **EricTerminator** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:25 am

Hi !

For the 80mm, I recommend the Arctic Cooling Fan Pro TC ; no noise from the sleeve bearing at all, just the sound of the airflow, and when it's undervolted, it's stealthy !

For the 92mm, some friends of mine recommend the Papst 3412NGL or the Noiseblocker SE2. In my case, I always used no-name 92mm, and now, I have the Evercool AL9225L. Just put them at 5V, and you'll be happy.

For the 120mm, I greatly recommand the AcoustiFan of 120mm ; in fact, if you read the serial, it's a Globefan of 120mm, very well known on the French forums for silent PCs. Just in case you wanna check it, here's the Globefan's website : www.globefan.com

See you

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:59 am

Aphex,

You've got an answer in tek-chain. You could also look into Globe or Yate Loon fans. Finding ones with rpm feed may be a little hard though. The Panaflo M1A and L1A DONT have rpm feed.

BUT PLEASE BE AWARE THAT YOU'RE PUSHING AWAY ALL HELP TO GET YOUR RIG QUIETER.

You DONT need so many fans. Even when overclocked. Even for a serious gaming rig. Trust me.

If you can, just post a pic & list of your hardware and we'll walk you through it all.

Aphex · Post by **Aphex** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:13 am

Or maybe instead of screaming at me and trying to change my opinion of what I need to yours, you could help me out with finding some good 80mm fans with RPM monitoring. The only reason I have a psu with 2 fans is because it's an X-Connect and the modular cables outweighed the disadvantage of dual fans. And while I agree that 5 fans may be overkill, guess what: it doesn't bother me, and it cools well.

My computer is left on for months at a time, usually working on encoding video or Folding @ Home, and I am not going to risk overheating & crashes by reducing the already low-capacity fans (remember, it's not possible to fit 120mm fans so I must stick with 92 and 80mm solutions).

I believe in the phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". And as it is, I'm happy with my case's cooling right now and so are my components, because everything is stable as a rock. The only thing bothering me now is the noise, which helpful people in this thread are helping me eliminate.

Please understand and accept that not everybody has the same standards as you.

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:46 am

A,

I only have 120mm fans, but I will test nexus, antec tri cool, and tek-chain.
Tonight or tomorrow. - FG

Pauli · Post by **Pauli** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:49 pm

Please understand and accept that not everybody has the same standards as you.

You have to remember where you are posting, Aphex. This is SPCR and we're all about quiet here. None of the regulars here run 5 case fans because more fans add more noise and 5 case fans are simply not necessary in a well-designed system. burkab's response is the kind of advice that you will get here. If it doesn't bother you to run 5 case fans, fine -- it's just sometimes hard for us to understand this attitude because we have a single-mindedness about eliminating as many noise sources as possible (without sacrificing cooling efficiency, of course).

sthayashi · Post by **sthayashi** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:46 pm

Aphex wrote:And while I agree that 5 fans may be overkill, guess what: it doesn't bother me, and it cools well.

Au Contraire, my friend. If you're complaining about noise, then it DOES bother you. Otherwise, you wouldn't have asked your question here

Here's why. If you have a fan that produces 30dB of noise at 1 meter and you get a second fan that also produces 30dB of noise at 1 meter, how much total noise do you get from 1 meter away? It's not 30dB, but 33dB. And that number simply goes up when you add more fans. Now that link actually calls into question the additive rule of noises, but it also proves it for louder noises, such as around 30dB.

So hopefully you understand our strong suggestions that you start pulling fans. Because in all honesty, that's literally the cheapest thing you can do (we're all about inexpensive solutions here at SPCR). And we believe that it won't affect your cooling or stability that much, if even at all. In fact, depending on your setup, you may even improve your cooling.

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:34 pm

After spending some time at cooling down my anger, I'll try to explain what I mean once more:

Aphex,

You've got the answer you requested in the pointer for the Tek-chain, plus the two (Yate Loon and Globe) I mentioned that meet your criteria, not to mention the Arctic Cooling fans.

On top of that I took a look at the heading you chose for this thread and decided to try one LAST effort to point you in a direction that I think is very right but is not recognised as so by nearly everyone NOT on this forum because they haven't pushed the envelope.

You got the fan advice you requested. You got more advice in the way of quieting down your computer WITHOUT sacrificing performance. This happens to be a friendly forum where people try their best to help other people achieve the peace & quiet we have. If I used capital words that was to try & get your attention one last time and it was obviously so from the sentence yet you choose to come back with an attitude.

If you'd spent the least bit of effort to browse the General Gallery section, you'd note that there are rigs as or more powerful than yours being cooled by less fans running at lower speeds. Getting there isn't difficult, you just have to be open minded about it.

Aphex · Post by **Aphex** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:11 pm

I understand. Sorry for getting pissed like that; this has been midterms week and I've been snippish all the time throughout.

I still do not appreciate getting yelled at that I'm 'pushing away all help'. I'm not some kind of elitist snob that won't listen to anything; heck, even the fact that I'm here says something about my willingness to change my case's configuration. I'm also not afraid of spending some money to get it quiet; I just bought a Zalman CNPS7000b, as I noted before, and I'm about to make quite a large fan purchase.

And after looking at the article about airflow compared to the amount of fans, I really do think I should pull out my front fan instead of replacing it. And I probably will.

I hope you understand how I'm extremely grateful for this help, since as my original post states, I've been researching this for months without any concrete conclusions. Now, finally, they are beginning to take form. I am by no means denying or invalidating advice; I am merely stating my opinions.

burcakb · Post by **burcakb** » Sat Feb 26, 2005 3:31 am

The max power draw of your CPU is 77W. The Zalman 7000b should cool the 2.6c with the fanmate at minimum even at full load - maybe even lower, provided your case airflow is good enough. You probably won't need to go below 5V until you get to the stage of cutting out fan grills, decoupling harddrives, etc.

However, I'm confused about your case layout. 3x92mm + 2x80mm seems like a lot to place. I'll venture a guess, 92mm front & back, 80mm at side panel and one at the top. But I can't place the third one. Can you provide pics?

The usualy understanding is that a single rear 120mm fan can usually, at low rpms, draw enough air through a well designed case to cool a reasonable (read non 100+W prescott) CPU and a moderately cool graphics card. One may need a front fan to help cool the harddrives. Which means, no side or top fans are necessary.

Now, since you don't have 120mm fan placements, I'm guessing 92mm front & back configuration. While a 92mm can't push the same airflow as a 120mm, it may still be enough, considering that your CPU isn't among the hottest.

Your major heat source is the 6800GT. If you're using it in stock form, it's probably your biggest noise source. If you use an NV Silencer on it so that the excess heat is exhausted directly out the case, the CPU and other components can be easily cooled with very few fans running at very low rpms.

For your X-Connect, I guess the bottom 80mm fan will be only 15mm thick instead of the usual 25mm. It's very hard to find good 80x15, let alone LED ones. If you can give up on the LED part, I'll suggest the Zalman optional fan for the heatpipe VGA cooler. At 12V it's too noisy but undervolts well and pushes enough air even at 5V.

The Zalman has a C/W of about 0.3 at minimum fanmate. At 77W heat production by the CPU, that'd give you about 23C rise above ambient. Assuming a case temp of 35C, your CPU should hit 58C at full load. That's very reasonable and acceptable. If you're not in a ballpark range around this temp, you really should examine your case airflow. Side and top vents do not necessarily improve airflow and done blindly may even worsen it.

Aphex · Post by **Aphex** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:24 am

Howzat?

As for the Tek-Chains: I'm about to make a purchase, but just one thing is bugging me about them. Do you think I'll be able to hook them up to my Hardcano 13? Will that useless little fan controller that's built into the fan stop me from doing this? If I won't be able to hook them up to the Hardcano, I'll scream.

frankgehry · Post by **frankgehry** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:53 am

A.

The built in speed control in the tek chains may be useful. The Hardcano 13 adjusts from 12v down to 6v. That means that the slowest you can run the tek chains from the hardcano 13 is about 800 rpm since the top speed is about 1600 rpm.

If you want to run slower, you can lower the top speed at the fan, and then you will to change the range of the hardcano to 5v-11v. In any case the adjustments at the fan may be useful and you will have no problem connecting the fan to the hardcano as I have already tested this.

It would be nice if the hardcano went from 12v down to 0v but it doesn't. There are ways around this like using the individual tek chain adjustment and I still think the hardcano is a great controller. - FG

By the way, you can remove the speed control from the tek chain frame if you want.

Aphex · Post by **Aphex** » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:12 pm

Ah! Just the right person, I see you have the Hardcano 13 as well

Now I understand - the fans still have a connector for the Hardcano, but they also have an additional controller in the middle. Therefore it acts similarily to my Zalman 7000b: the 7000b is connected to the fanmate, and the fanmate is connected to the Hardcano. So I can get an interesting mix of voltages by using both in tandem.

Yousir, are a fantastic fellow. I'm going to order the fans out today. Can't thank you enough.