ARRRRGh this Vantec sucks!! What to do?

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IceWindius
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ARRRRGh this Vantec sucks!! What to do?

Post by IceWindius » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:27 am

Im in the process of a new project "Night Wind" based on the Antec Sonanta Basically, this is my first case where silence has been them main goal instead of "bling bling" crap. Needless to say, i've recycled my 120mm Vantec Stealth fan an have it hooked up to my Aerogate II controller. THe results have been less then stellur.

I"ve been fluctuating the fan up and down in speeds, but the fan makes this gawd awful "grrrrrrrr" sound no matter how fast or slow it it. I tried mounting some rubber stoppers on it, but it didn't seem to effect much of anything. I was then thinking of then putting on insulation foam to try and see if that had effect, but im not so sure.

What do you guys honestly recommend for having a good case fan in my rear? I don't wanna install a second 120mm in front, I don't want the extra noise. I want the 120mm exhaust along with my Antec NeoPower and NV5 silencer to move all the air moving without the need for an intake fan. Do the Nexus actually move enough air to keep equipment cool at only 1000RPM? This is a high end P4 gaming rig with 6800GT and dual 160gig Seagates so there alot of heat being pumped out. The only place in the USA I found the Nexus fan was at coolerguys.com and not frozencpu where I usually shop.

I"ve been going through the FAQ for fans, but alot of the fans the USA stores don't carry. If you can pass along other suggestions to replace this gawd awful Vantec fan, i'd appreciate it.
Last edited by IceWindius on Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

frankgehry
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sonata mods

Post by frankgehry » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:12 am

Ice,

The sonata has a number of mods to help out the airflow. The front opening is somewhat blocked by the case design and hard drive rack. You probably should take a look at these first and then have a look at the gallery and find someone who has modified a sonata and see what you want to do.

For fans go to the user review forum and look up "A papst, 2 loons, and a coolermaster" or something like that. There are only about 5 or 6 articles there. But quickly for something other than a nexus think about sleeve bearing low speed fans around 1500rpm -

Tek-Chain 120 (use www.froogle.com to find the dealers)

Coolermaster Silent UV xxxx??? (only 1200 rpm, but a great deal)

yate loon D12SM-12 (available at pctekonline, but doesn't have rpm sensing)

JMC 1225L (www.jmcproducts.com - you have to call and place an order
$14) - very good

In the definitely maybe category - a Mad Dog whisper fan from compusa $10

The goal should be to improve your case cooling so you can run nexus.
What kind of heatsink and cpu fan do you have? - FG

IceWindius
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Post by IceWindius » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:51 am

I have already done major intake modifications to my Sonata. Go here for my current worklog.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=890355

I am using a Zalman 7000CU to cool my P4 rig.

Is this coolermaster fan good?
http://www.frozencpu.com/fan-137.html

Coolin
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Post by Coolin » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:22 am

If your computer hasn't blown up with 1 Vantec Stealth, then it wouldn't with two Nexuses.

I would install a Nexus in the front and the back. The noise should be considerably less, and the airflow would not be significantly affected. It might even improve. From what I've seen, the 120mm Vantec Stealth's do 53 CFM. A Nexus does around 40 CFM. Airflow may not add up linearly, but two of them should still outperform a Stealth.

StarfishChris
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Post by StarfishChris » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:39 am

You don't get any more CFM by having one intake fan and one exhaust fan other than the fact that the fan doesn't have to work against pressure, and that increase is minimal most of the time.

RE: 120mm being quieter than 80mm. You might want to look here and here if you decide to change your case.

frankgehry
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many mods

Post by frankgehry » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:00 pm

Icewindiusmaximus,

Yes I see that you've got all of the sonata mods down. Why did you buy that stealth fan (just kidding)? It does look like you've improved the ventilation quiet a bit so maybe 2*nexus would be the best solution since they are the quietest.

On the otherhand there are alternatives, that if run at low speed, are almost as quiet - like the coolermaster. I've seen it for ~ $8 at www.jab-tech.com and the nexus seems to be coming down in price - $17.95 at coolerguys. The good thing about the nexus is consistency. With cheaper fans you might end up buying 2 or 3 to get one good one. However the coolermaters have been fine.

In my system I have 2*nexus case fans a a 1600rpm papst for the cpu. The cpu fan runs < 800rpm, but if it needs to it can provide more air. You probably want some negative case pressure with the rear fan pulling more air than the front. - FG

StarfishChris
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Post by StarfishChris » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:07 pm

If the case fans are running at the same speed you have negative pressure anyway - from the PSU fan. However if your PSU has an 80mm fan at the back you might want to try partitioning off the top area (above the support) so the PSU can get fresh air from the Antec holes.

IMO the front case position in the Sonata isn't very effective. I tried putting a fan there to cool the hard drives, then I took it out, added the duct and taped off the large hole in the drive cage to force most of the air over the drives. I get virtually the same temps that way with no noise penalty.

scotty6435
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Post by scotty6435 » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:11 pm

StarfishChris wrote:You don't get any more CFM by having one intake fan and one exhaust fan other than the fact that the fan doesn't have to work against pressure, and that increase is minimal most of the time.

RE: 120mm being quieter than 80mm. You might want to look here and here if you decide to change your case.
The main point of the post at the end though is that even though a 120mm may be louder overall, the noise is far more tolerable because it is of lower frequency. 120mm fans are the best colution for 99% of people.

IceWindius
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Post by IceWindius » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:22 pm

I can get those Coolermaster UV fans for dirtcheap at Frozencpu.com. Think they are alot quieter then this damn Vantec stealth 120mm?

frankgehry
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Yes

Post by frankgehry » Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:08 pm

Absitively. The 120mm's are only 1200rpm so they're not fast but I believe they put out more air that the nexus and at a great price. The nexus is still the quietest, but the coolermasters are real close. - FG

At jab-tech they're $6.50 when you buy 3

IceWindius
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Post by IceWindius » Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:35 pm

How well do the Coolermasters take PWM controllers? I broke my AeroGate II and I was gonna purchase a new black one.

frankgehry
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controllers

Post by frankgehry » Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:40 pm

Good point. I will have to test it. I don't remember having a problem but I'm not sure. I can let you know in a few days. - FG

yeha
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Post by yeha » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:06 pm

i just got a pair of 120mm coolermaster blue uv's from svc. they're pretty nice fans for the price, but both of mine are identical in terms of sound - a continuous rattling sound (like dragging a twig over the bumps of a corrugated tin shed), can still be heard at from 1 metre away at 5 volts, actually that rattling sound never changes in intensity from 12v all the way down. that is, however, pretty much the only sound the fan makes - airflow is audible as a hum (resonance in the light plastic?) which gets sufficiently quiet as voltage is brought down, but that rattling seems there to stay.

my blue led yate loon d12sm-12 is a better fan than the coolermasters, but the glacialtech silentblades are better than both. they only make a 'rustling' noise - high frequency, white-fuzzy-noise-like - get a piece of toilet paper and gently rub it with a fingertip - that's the noise a glacialtech makes. and airflow, of course.

IceWindius
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Post by IceWindius » Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:44 pm

yeha wrote:i just got a pair of 120mm coolermaster blue uv's from svc. they're pretty nice fans for the price, but both of mine are identical in terms of sound - a continuous rattling sound (like dragging a twig over the bumps of a corrugated tin shed), can still be heard at from 1 metre away at 5 volts, actually that rattling sound never changes in intensity from 12v all the way down. that is, however, pretty much the only sound the fan makes - airflow is audible as a hum (resonance in the light plastic?) which gets sufficiently quiet as voltage is brought down, but that rattling seems there to stay.

my blue led yate loon d12sm-12 is a better fan than the coolermasters, but the glacialtech silentblades are better than both. they only make a 'rustling' noise - high frequency, white-fuzzy-noise-like - get a piece of toilet paper and gently rub it with a fingertip - that's the noise a glacialtech makes. and airflow, of course.
Well thats just great.............

yeha
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Post by yeha » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:00 pm

don't get me wrong, the coolermasters are great fans. i advise people to get them on a bunch of forums - quiet stock speed (well, quiet enough for most), cheap, rpm output, no mess no fuss. other common options like evercools, globes or yate loons all require undervolting to reach similar levels of quiet.

my coolermasters wouldn't work for someone going for a ~20 dba system though. heck i think the glacialtechs wouldn't either. how do people get their systems so quiet? i don't have a single fan that i can't clearly hear when it's a metre away at 5 volts, and that includes some 24 volts fans.

i think i overhyped the rattling that my coolermasters make - it's definitely there, but i guess if it's inside a psu or soft-mounted inside a case it would get dampened enough to not matter. i guess i need to break down and get a nexus so i have something concrete to compare all these fans to.

frankgehry
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worst review i've ever read

Post by frankgehry » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:15 pm

That's the worst fan review I've ever read. Not in the sense that its poorly written, but twigs over a tin roof would be unacceptable for a quiet fan. If you think about it though, at 5v the fan is at ~ 500rpm, and the rattling sound never changes intensity from 12v. How is that possible? Are you referring to bearing noise? Does it make that sound if you spin it by hand? Is it hard to turn? If it makes so much noise does it reach 1200rpm? I like your tin roof analogy, but from a reviewer's perspective, you haven't given us much solid information to go by.

I stand by my review in the user review section and I believe there are some other favorable coolermaster uv silent posts there as well. - FG

I don't usually rub my fingertips with toilet paper, but if I did it wouldn't make a high frequency rustling noise.

yeha
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Post by yeha » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:33 pm

heh i guess my sound likening could use some work :)

the coolermasters make no noise when i spin them by hand. when powered up, at any voltage, there is a continuous and unaltering metallic rattling sound, i guess it's the bearings but the only other ball-bearing fan i have that sounds similar is my 80mm nmb b19, but that's different again (in a hard to describe way, imagine that). that metallic rattling sound is constant in terms of frequency, volume and character regardless of voltage or fan orientation - it stays the same as long as the fan is powered. it just struck me as being exactly the same as the corrugated tin/iron that was used to make sheds, rooms, pretty much anything outdoors back in australia. same exact sound, only quieter from the fan obviously :) the only other sound this fan makes is airflow, and the accompanying hum of turbulence between the spinning blades and the arms that hold the fan motor in the middle of the frame. this hum/airflow combination disappears for me between 6-7 volts, when 1 metre away.

it's by all means a favorable review, i guess i didn't make that clear (or make that point in any way whatsoever, i guess). i've been hoping to get my hands on a fan that doesn't make any motor noise, but i guess that doesn't exist, so i try to characterise the actual noise as best i can. i really should have framed it in relative terms to an 80mm l1a or something. in that case, the 120mm coolermaster makes less noise at stock speed, than my 80mm l1a's do regardless of their voltage - from 5v to 12v, the panaflo's combination of airflow and motor noise is louder than these coolermasters are at stock. when they're undervolted, the coolermasters are even better.

as for the toilet paper, that's all that came to mind to describe the sound :) how about a t-shirt instead. lightly brush your shirt with a finger, it should make a shhh sound - that's the sound i was trying to describe, i've never heard a fan do that either. ya know, this would be easier if i had a $1000 high-fidelity recording area in the spare room. for some reason my cousin keeps veto'ing the idea though.

frankgehry
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no problem

Post by frankgehry » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:57 pm

That's more helpful, but I am really surprised that they didn't sound better, because mine is a really good fan w/o any bearing noise. Hopefully MikeC is going to test fans that people can buy in the us, and not just the globes, papst, and panaflos w/o rpm sensing. We already know that nexus are the quietest. The europeans will be interested in the papst as I will, but I hope someone tells MikeC that you can't buy orange D12SL-12's anymore. - FG

EDIT: The coolermasters have sleeve bearings, but sleeve bearings make noise too.

I think I got mine from sundialmicro when they cost about $13.
Last edited by frankgehry on Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yeha
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Post by yeha » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:05 pm

maybe it's a batch thing, or how the fans were shipped/stored for different vendors. where'd you get yours from?

well if anyone's looking to buy a 120mm blue uv coolermaster, grab it from somewhere other than svc. i got two that are completely identical in terms of motor noise. nothing bad by any means, but if that little rattling wasn't there these fans would be as close to perfect as i can imagine a fan being - i don't see how a nexus could be any better, as the only sound these coolermasters make apart from that is airflow.

frankgehry
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twig on a tin roof

Post by frankgehry » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:25 pm

Sure, if you don't mind the major minor league twig on the tin roof effect. I think you're stuck with those unless svc will exchange them for something else. Ebay maybe. - FG

Oh, I see. You're just heading people away from svc. I guess it could be a batch problem.

Jan Kivar
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Post by Jan Kivar » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:53 am

IceWindius wrote:I have already done major intake modifications to my Sonata. Go here for my current worklog.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=890355
Hopefully you have MikeC's permission to hotlink those pictures from SPCR. :)

Esp. since your thread at [H]ard has been viewed for ~1100 times already...

Cheers,

Jan

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