Digitalix, you seem to have experience with the new PSU model by silenx.com. Care to enlighten the rest of us on the difference (if any) between the old Jamicon fan and the new Jaro unit?digitalix wrote:Good stuff, the bearing noise is non-existant with the new fans plus mounts whereas it was audible on the older exoticpc power supplies
Silenx vs Panaflo at Identical Flow Rates
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Radeonman: replied to your inquiry by email, let me know if you haven't received it.
Please contact us for pricing on the fans, that information is confidential and not available for release to the general public as of yet.
I don't forsee any problems running our fan on your heatsink, our fans have a thermistor that you can use to probe the temperature of the hardware you would like to cool, basically it allows for adequate cooling and not having to worry about hardware failure due to extreme temperatures.
The fans come with 3 pin headers plus a 3->4 pin molex connector standard, along with 4 fan screws and 4 silicon fan isolation mounts.
As for noise due to object placement, this is really dependent on the situation. Noise can get directed due to objects placed in front of it and might "sound" louder as it is focused towards a given direction, this phenomena does occur to all fans out there. Generally, the quieter the fan is to begin with, the less effects you will have from this phenomena.
Feel free to contact us if you have any other questions or inquiries!
Please contact us for pricing on the fans, that information is confidential and not available for release to the general public as of yet.
I don't forsee any problems running our fan on your heatsink, our fans have a thermistor that you can use to probe the temperature of the hardware you would like to cool, basically it allows for adequate cooling and not having to worry about hardware failure due to extreme temperatures.
The fans come with 3 pin headers plus a 3->4 pin molex connector standard, along with 4 fan screws and 4 silicon fan isolation mounts.
As for noise due to object placement, this is really dependent on the situation. Noise can get directed due to objects placed in front of it and might "sound" louder as it is focused towards a given direction, this phenomena does occur to all fans out there. Generally, the quieter the fan is to begin with, the less effects you will have from this phenomena.
Feel free to contact us if you have any other questions or inquiries!
This is almost too good to be true!. A company actually posting relevant information about their products in an independent forum!. Havent seen this ever. BIG thumbs up!.
this must mean that SPCR really is the forum to find info about silent pc's. I'm buying my products from www.gtek.net (swedish reseller) and they refer to tests made here on SPCR. Nice to know that I'm in the right spot.
/Per
this must mean that SPCR really is the forum to find info about silent pc's. I'm buying my products from www.gtek.net (swedish reseller) and they refer to tests made here on SPCR. Nice to know that I'm in the right spot.
/Per
A general note:
o Clicking etc noise from fans is mostly fan-start circuitry
---- some fans may not start if they have voltage-detect circuit
---- Panaflo are one of these, but it's a very low voltage
o PAPST 80mm 12dB(A) are nothing like 12dB(A)
---- at least when fitted :-)
---- fitted they are lower airflow & similar noise to L1A
-------- hence I moved to L1A
---- where the PAPST 80mm is poor is vibration
-------- less important with actually engineered cases now
-------- however substrate vibration IS the noise you hear
-------- Panaflo 80mm L1A vibrate very little
Conversely 92mm & 120mm L1A are unremarkable re noise/vibration
and the M1A 120mm is not an appealing fan for the very high prices.
M1A does have 38mm depth which most generally available PAPSTs lack.
o Fan blade design can assist low noise
---- PAPST have a quite poor 80mm fan blade design
---- blade tip thickness a bit chunky for super low noise
-------- hence they use very low rpm, but that kills cfm & static pressure
---- Panaflo & NMB have good 80mm fan blade designs
-------- they are low noise AND maintain some static pressure
-------- L1A panaflo outperform PAPST 12 & 21dB(A) 80mm 84xx fans
with respect to noise & airflow on some custom PSUs I did, surprisingly
-------- conversely Panaflo bearing whilst rugged, *blades* are not
Panaflo also provide perpendicular airflow from the fan, whereas
many others provide tangential. This can assist point cooling. NMB
also use this type of blade arrangement on some of their 80mm fans.
I have some 14dB(A) 18cfm 3-wire NMB being processed, in stock,
which are essentially "quiet L1A" but low airflow & 3-wire tacho output.
Personally I prefer 25cfm over going sub ~21dB(A), others vary.
Re PSU fans - a tip:
o Colleague reminded me of externally mounting PSU fans
o External mounting can save you about 4-5dB(A) on noise levels
---- however /please/ fit a grill because some fan blades are SHARP
o External mounting can also improve your cooling & net cfm
---- less obstructed airflow in front of the fan intake
---- better cooling from low-static pressure axial fan in tight enclosure
For higher airflow fans, this will *not* work.
With higher airflow you get excitation of the PSU casing, you have a fan
inline with an oblong container offering a static intake load & external
exhaust which creates a resonance due to case width:length ratios.
To experience this pick up any PSU which is ~70mm wide & 200mm long
with a 60mm fan even PAPST 612L at the end of it and buy earplugs.
It can also be used on critical servers to serialise 2 fans back-to-back
to provide redundancy, however note this can create some peculiar
"hunting" noises as the two fans rpm vary around one another. The
beat frequency varies continually around 0.2-2Hz and is quite loud.
Mounting of fans gets critical when you aim to achieve <25dB(A) *fitted*.
Sticking a 12-14-21dB(A) fan in a case with tight bolts all sound the same;
don't overtighten, consider nylon nuts/bolts, consider acoustic mounts.
After than, fan noise is the noise you hear:
o You can soundproof the inside of a case all you want
o Sound from case fans has no soundproofing between it & your ears :-)
So you either inset fans in a duct which is itself soundproofed, turn
sound thro 180-degrees to knock 6dB(A) off it (and cfm similarly),
or use quieter fans. Soundproofing is a combination of many factors,
it is a Science, just takes effort on many fronts to achieve it.
Also remember, sometimes 2 very quiet fans can make up for the
airflow of 1 normal fan - so you can have hot CPUs in quiet cases.
Simple ducting of air by cardboard gets the cfm to where it is needed.
You can freeze cardboard shape/bolt-holes with diluted epoxy.
Never use fan-screws to mount fans, they are a blind-fastener designed
for high speed production facilities and not low fitted-to-case noise levels.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan
Panaflo 80mm L1A at 4.99ukp citing this forum
NMB 15dB(A) 18cfm 3-wire tacho available direct
o Clicking etc noise from fans is mostly fan-start circuitry
---- some fans may not start if they have voltage-detect circuit
---- Panaflo are one of these, but it's a very low voltage
o PAPST 80mm 12dB(A) are nothing like 12dB(A)
---- at least when fitted :-)
---- fitted they are lower airflow & similar noise to L1A
-------- hence I moved to L1A
---- where the PAPST 80mm is poor is vibration
-------- less important with actually engineered cases now
-------- however substrate vibration IS the noise you hear
-------- Panaflo 80mm L1A vibrate very little
Conversely 92mm & 120mm L1A are unremarkable re noise/vibration
and the M1A 120mm is not an appealing fan for the very high prices.
M1A does have 38mm depth which most generally available PAPSTs lack.
o Fan blade design can assist low noise
---- PAPST have a quite poor 80mm fan blade design
---- blade tip thickness a bit chunky for super low noise
-------- hence they use very low rpm, but that kills cfm & static pressure
---- Panaflo & NMB have good 80mm fan blade designs
-------- they are low noise AND maintain some static pressure
-------- L1A panaflo outperform PAPST 12 & 21dB(A) 80mm 84xx fans
with respect to noise & airflow on some custom PSUs I did, surprisingly
-------- conversely Panaflo bearing whilst rugged, *blades* are not
Panaflo also provide perpendicular airflow from the fan, whereas
many others provide tangential. This can assist point cooling. NMB
also use this type of blade arrangement on some of their 80mm fans.
I have some 14dB(A) 18cfm 3-wire NMB being processed, in stock,
which are essentially "quiet L1A" but low airflow & 3-wire tacho output.
Personally I prefer 25cfm over going sub ~21dB(A), others vary.
Re PSU fans - a tip:
o Colleague reminded me of externally mounting PSU fans
o External mounting can save you about 4-5dB(A) on noise levels
---- however /please/ fit a grill because some fan blades are SHARP
o External mounting can also improve your cooling & net cfm
---- less obstructed airflow in front of the fan intake
---- better cooling from low-static pressure axial fan in tight enclosure
For higher airflow fans, this will *not* work.
With higher airflow you get excitation of the PSU casing, you have a fan
inline with an oblong container offering a static intake load & external
exhaust which creates a resonance due to case width:length ratios.
To experience this pick up any PSU which is ~70mm wide & 200mm long
with a 60mm fan even PAPST 612L at the end of it and buy earplugs.
It can also be used on critical servers to serialise 2 fans back-to-back
to provide redundancy, however note this can create some peculiar
"hunting" noises as the two fans rpm vary around one another. The
beat frequency varies continually around 0.2-2Hz and is quite loud.
Mounting of fans gets critical when you aim to achieve <25dB(A) *fitted*.
Sticking a 12-14-21dB(A) fan in a case with tight bolts all sound the same;
don't overtighten, consider nylon nuts/bolts, consider acoustic mounts.
After than, fan noise is the noise you hear:
o You can soundproof the inside of a case all you want
o Sound from case fans has no soundproofing between it & your ears :-)
So you either inset fans in a duct which is itself soundproofed, turn
sound thro 180-degrees to knock 6dB(A) off it (and cfm similarly),
or use quieter fans. Soundproofing is a combination of many factors,
it is a Science, just takes effort on many fronts to achieve it.
Also remember, sometimes 2 very quiet fans can make up for the
airflow of 1 normal fan - so you can have hot CPUs in quiet cases.
Simple ducting of air by cardboard gets the cfm to where it is needed.
You can freeze cardboard shape/bolt-holes with diluted epoxy.
Never use fan-screws to mount fans, they are a blind-fastener designed
for high speed production facilities and not low fitted-to-case noise levels.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan
Panaflo 80mm L1A at 4.99ukp citing this forum
NMB 15dB(A) 18cfm 3-wire tacho available direct
Dorothy, a few remarks:
2. The blades are angled in such a way that anything approaching a rotating fan from the "blow-side" is pushed away. You touch the rear-edge of the blade.
It's the "sucking-side" that can cause harm.
In most situations you don't need a grill on the "blow-side"
Regards, Han.
1. The blowing side of a fan is quite protected by the "motor-mounting-spokes"jafb2000 wrote: o External mounting can save you about 4-5dB(A) on noise levels
---- however /please/ fit a grill because some fan blades are SHARP
2. The blades are angled in such a way that anything approaching a rotating fan from the "blow-side" is pushed away. You touch the rear-edge of the blade.
It's the "sucking-side" that can cause harm.
In most situations you don't need a grill on the "blow-side"
A very good point, but I assume you meant "front to back"jafb2000 wrote: It can also be used on critical servers to serialise 2 fans back-to-back
to provide redundancy, however note this can create some peculiar
"hunting" noises as the two fans rpm vary around one another. The
beat frequency varies continually around 0.2-2Hz and is quite loud.
Most epoxies available to members of this forum are the kind that comes in two tubes, intended to be used as glue. These epoxies are free of solvents, and adding a solvent might make it possible for the "hardening-component" to migrate into the skin with the solvent. This "hardening-component" is known to harmful to your health. Make sure to wear gloves resistant to solvent used, or use the epoxy without a solvent.jafb2000 wrote:You can freeze cardboard shape/bolt-holes with diluted epoxy.
Regards, Han.
Last edited by SpyderCat on Tue May 06, 2003 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Has,
o Yes the spokes do act as a grill on a fan exhaust side
o However accessing a PC from the front, fumbling with
fingers into a nice cubby hole of a fan housing can get painful :-)
o At least where a bare fan is fitted to the outside of a case
Children do like to poke fingers into pretty flickering blades, and
they still represent a moving edge against a stationary fan spoke.
Granted, 80mm fans are not 254mm 115/230vac 550cfm Caravel's.
Re serial fans back-to-back, yes serial - exhaust-fan-A to intake-fan-B.
Tubes/Bottles of epoxy have warnings on them for good reason:
o You may not be allergic to them with minor skin contact
---- however epoxy resins, eg, West System aren't friendly
o However allergy is accumulative by exposure
---- and you may suddenly find a quite nasty skin/respiratory reaction
A simpler method is to take laminated cardboard used for the back
of comb/wire-bound documents or thin foamex foamed PVC sheet.
Surprised no-one's got a gallery started of their fan/CPU ducts :-)
Bunch of wussies, calling themselves PC silentartists *smile*
o Yes the spokes do act as a grill on a fan exhaust side
o However accessing a PC from the front, fumbling with
fingers into a nice cubby hole of a fan housing can get painful :-)
o At least where a bare fan is fitted to the outside of a case
Children do like to poke fingers into pretty flickering blades, and
they still represent a moving edge against a stationary fan spoke.
Granted, 80mm fans are not 254mm 115/230vac 550cfm Caravel's.
Re serial fans back-to-back, yes serial - exhaust-fan-A to intake-fan-B.
Tubes/Bottles of epoxy have warnings on them for good reason:
o You may not be allergic to them with minor skin contact
---- however epoxy resins, eg, West System aren't friendly
o However allergy is accumulative by exposure
---- and you may suddenly find a quite nasty skin/respiratory reaction
A simpler method is to take laminated cardboard used for the back
of comb/wire-bound documents or thin foamex foamed PVC sheet.
Surprised no-one's got a gallery started of their fan/CPU ducts :-)
Bunch of wussies, calling themselves PC silentartists *smile*
Hey,jafb2000 wrote: Tubes/Bottles of epoxy have warnings on them for good reason:
o You may not be allergic to them with minor skin contact
---- however epoxy resins, eg, West System aren't friendly
o However allergy is accumulative by exposure
---- and you may suddenly find a quite nasty skin/respiratory reaction
A simpler method is to take laminated cardboard used for the back
of comb/wire-bound documents or thin foamex foamed PVC sheet.
Surprised no-one's got a gallery started of their fan/CPU ducts
Bunch of wussies, calling themselves PC silentartists *smile*
I even provided a cutting patern for a cardboard duct
Okay, so you know WEST-epoxy ! (Is used mainly in boatbuilding, but computers can benefit too!)
Do you own a wooden boat perhaps?
WEST-epoxy is thin enough, you don't need to dillute it.
I swear by PlastaZote (tm) foam, and my previous duct is shown here
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=3584
The advantage of PlastaZote is that its light, firm, and doesn't forward vibrations.
Regards, Han
I've just received 8 of them, immediately replace my 2 intakes with 2 of the silenx fans, using the blue silicon fan isolator mounts that Peter Kim of Silenx also provides with orders of the fans.
As soon as I started up my PC, with case cover off, I noticed the difference straightaway! I think partly due to the low rpm of the fans (versus the 2500rpm of my previous fans), and partly due to the blue silicon mounts rather than the hard black plastic mounts I was using before, the low noise but high pitched irritating whine of the intake fans is gone.
I was so happy I replaced a 3rd intake side fan, and one of the outtakes (I have 2 outtakes, but usually only one is running, although once I also replace my 470W verudium PSU with the 400W 14dBA silenx PSU I'll replace the 2nd outtake too), in the process breaking one of the blue silicon mounts. Sigh.
My case temps after half an hour were at 40'C (typically 43-44'C), and in case anybody is wondering why, my ambient temp is typically in the high 20's to low 30's as I'm in sunny/humid/drenchingly hot singapore (!), plus I run an old palamino XP1800+ (hot hot hot). Oh and probably because I have 3x 80GB 7200rpm HDDs behind the inttakes too.
As soon as I started up my PC, with case cover off, I noticed the difference straightaway! I think partly due to the low rpm of the fans (versus the 2500rpm of my previous fans), and partly due to the blue silicon mounts rather than the hard black plastic mounts I was using before, the low noise but high pitched irritating whine of the intake fans is gone.
I was so happy I replaced a 3rd intake side fan, and one of the outtakes (I have 2 outtakes, but usually only one is running, although once I also replace my 470W verudium PSU with the 400W 14dBA silenx PSU I'll replace the 2nd outtake too), in the process breaking one of the blue silicon mounts. Sigh.
My case temps after half an hour were at 40'C (typically 43-44'C), and in case anybody is wondering why, my ambient temp is typically in the high 20's to low 30's as I'm in sunny/humid/drenchingly hot singapore (!), plus I run an old palamino XP1800+ (hot hot hot). Oh and probably because I have 3x 80GB 7200rpm HDDs behind the inttakes too.
I'm making a 80mm fan comparison with identical flow rates
Hello!
What a coincidence that here is a topic of this....because next week I'm making a test of 30 80mm fans operating at the same airflows
I have contacted Dorothy and other admins with email for this matter and you hear more about me soon
What a coincidence that here is a topic of this....because next week I'm making a test of 30 80mm fans operating at the same airflows
I have contacted Dorothy and other admins with email for this matter and you hear more about me soon