Most silent 92mm and 120mm fans (12V DC) ?

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Sun May 04, 2003 12:21 pm

I'm currently using 3412 NGL as a case intake fan with rubber isolators and Papst 4312 NGL (with fan isolators) on the CPU heatsink (with a 120mm->80mm adapter). Both fans are a little noisy for me, even with voltage lowered down to c. 5 Volts. At 12 volts they are too noisy in my otherwise silent environment. I currently have them installed inside a triple insulated Antec 1038 case which has a very silent Enermax (modified by me) single fan PSU.

The 92mm fan makes no vibrational noise, but has 'ticking' kind of sound. The 120mm Papst makes a rotational vibrating sound that is heard even if I keep the fan in my hand (unmounted).

Now, I'm looking for the most silent 92 mm and 120 mm fans. It seems that most discussion here has revolved around 80mm fans.

I'm soliciting real-life experience from people who have used the above fans and have found even more silent alternatives.

I don't want to hear about paper specs, as I've already read them for most fans and learned to distrust them. Thanks :)

I've already read the Noiseblocker Ultra Silent review from this forum and it appears that those fans have more whine than Papst. Otherwise I would probably have ordered them without trying.

How are the Panaflo 120mm and 92mm fans like acoustically? Can they tolerate lower voltages (pwm control) and still spin up (and not 'tick')?

What about the Power Fluid fans?

Any better alternatives out there?

Please make note, that I'm not in the US and I can't just walk into Radio Shack and try every fan for 5 bucks myself :) I have to order them mail order and even the postage will be 10 bucks (if I'm lucky).

regards,
Halcyon

rpc180 · Post by **rpc180** » Sun May 04, 2003 4:44 pm

I'm using a 92mm Panaflo, it exhibits a slight ticking at 5-7V, but its inaudiable in a closed case and ~1m. I exchanged the PSU fan for it, but I decided it was making too much noise. I am running it on a Zalman fan bracket, so it doesn't have much restriction going on there. In that location, its louder than the 80mm, but not by much. In a closed case in daytime, its unnoticable. Late at night its somewhat noticable, but is masked somewhat by my Seagate IV's, I guess that's a testament to their quiet operation in any event.

kogi · Post by **kogi** » Mon May 05, 2003 3:05 am

halcyon wrote:(pwm control)

PWM fan controller may be your problem. When I connected my papst 4412FGML to a PWM fan controller then made more noise at 7v than at 12v. Now running 2 at 5v and they seem very quiet.

kogi

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Mon May 05, 2003 4:32 am

Yes, I agree that pwm controller may be a contributor to the clicking sound and I tend to replace my pwm controller with a better one (as soon as I can find one :).

However, the 120mm Papst has serious rotational vibration which is not caused by pwm control. I've checked this by directly running it from 5V, 7V and 12V rails.

regards,
Halcyon

dukla2000 · Post by **dukla2000** » Mon May 05, 2003 6:11 am

kogi wrote:
halcyon wrote:(pwm control)
PWM fan controller may be your problem. When I connected my papst 4412FGML to a PWM fan controller then made more noise at 7v than at 12v. Now running 2 at 5v and they seem very quiet.

kogi

I used to think I understood PWM, now I'm not so sure. Dorothy mentioned in one of her posts the ability/desirability to change the 'P' frequency and this definately seems to be an immediate problem/solution. My A7V333 has the ASB100 Asus chip that supports PWM. Putting an 80mm 'flo L1A on the CPU fan header and using Qfan for PWM gives linear/silent reduction in fan speed & noise (except all parameters are hardcoded somewhere by ASUS). Putting the same fan on the case fan header and using Speedfan for PWM made the fan sound like it had just had its bearings removed. So for the moment I have given up on PWM - the theory seems perfect but in practice there is not enough control for me. AFAIK Speedfan only plays with W as a percentage, but it seems this chip does have parameters for P. Except ASUS have published 0 specs

Halcyon - my 'level of pain' for you to judge my hearing/sensibility/environment against is that a rubber mounted 3412NGL at 7V is pretty quiet but still audible at 1am (mine will not start at 5V). So against that background, I made my comments on the 120mm NMB in my sig in another thread about 120mm NMBs: at 7V fairly similar to a 3412NGL at 7V, but a definate buzzing/clicking that can be heard from 1m or less (from intake) as well as motor and air whoosh. At 5V pretty damn quiet: the buzzing/clicking still there but I really need to get my ear within 20cm of the intake to hear it or anything else. Not a perfect fan but the best I have so far: my 120mm junk bin has a sleeve Evercool M and Dynaeon DF1212BB which are far worse. On paper only a Papst 4412FGL or EZ-Fan FP-108MS3 would tempt me at the moment (and Dorothy mentioned a new Sanyo about to hit the streets): Katana Man is in process playing with both the Papst & EZ-Fan so should have a 'hands-on' opinion shortly.

Any relation to Halcyonics? If close to Reading at 1am one day feel free to bring your own ears if you want (by appointment!).

marc999 · Post by **marc999** » Mon May 05, 2003 9:29 pm

Just to throw extra fuel on the fire, here's another option for a 120 mm fan: a JMC 120L.

I've never heard of JMC before but I ordered the D8000 quiet mod from Coolcases.com. Here's what Jim H. had to say when I asked him what 120 mm fans came with the quiet package and if they were as good as the Panaflow:

The 120s included in the various mods are the JMC 120Ls or the Panaflo 120L1As--depending on configuration and setup. For example, on the superquiet setup, the LF fan is a J120L at 12v. and the BBd fan is a J120L at 7v. (This is with the standard 4-pin (PS) connector setup).

I have NO trouble recommending the J120L--see below:

The JMC 120L is use is NOT the same as the JMC1225L they currently show on their site--it's a special model (e.g., from a different fan contractor) they originally sold. Its specs are 61 cfm at 26 dBA at 12v--and it has a 50K MTBF (premium quality) rating. The sound quality is excellent--just like a Panaflo only a bit quieter. As you may know, a 38 mm. thick fan doesn't fit in the front with grommets or with a fan guard--so we use the JMC 120L there. There may be a chance I cannot get that fan when I need to reorder--but we'll see. If not (and that time is a bit off), then I'll probably go to the Papst 120x25/55 cfm fan for a 120x25 fan.

So it seems to me, that in Jim's professional opinion, the ranking of 120mm (25mm thick) fans is:
1. JMC 120L
2. Panaflow 120L
3. Papst

It doesn't surprise me to see the Papst at the bottom since I've read in several threads that it clicks a lot at lower voltages.

Unfortunately I haven't used the JMC 120L fans yet, despite the fact that they're right here in my newly arrived D8000 case. I'm awaiting for my motherboard to come in from eBay. Anyways, when I do I'll let you know what I think (I don't know if I'll even bother trying them at 12V since I'm pretty sure that will be too loud for a silent PC). Seems to me like the only potential problem with this fan is if it will click at 5V. However, I don't have any other 120mm fans, so this will be the only 120mm fan I would have heard - which doesn't make for a very good comparison. Hopefully someone will see this post and test this 120mm fan more scientifically. Anyway, I couldn't agree more, we need 92 and 120 mm Referance fans !!

Gxcad · Post by **Gxcad** » Mon May 05, 2003 10:21 pm

I didn't hesitate for a second when I found a similar fan for $6.99... its suspeciously similar...consumes the same 1.32w and 100ma and is a low 1600rpm.

http://www.directron.com/f378.html

I vaguely recall this fan being considered to be very quiet despite the 32db and 55cfm specs on directrons page...possibly the same fan!? I know I know, you said special fan but I got em anyway coz their cheap hehe;). Anyway I'll let ya'll know in about a week if I remember to report back to this thread;).

-Ken

dago · Post by **dago** » Mon May 05, 2003 10:50 pm

So, I made a quick page resuming some info on 120mm fans. Feel free to feedback / edit it / ...

For my opinion, the enermax I got are pretty quiet at lowest voltage or at middle voltage with fan control by psu. But comparing them against any other one (execpt the papst) is not very practical.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Tue May 06, 2003 4:17 am

I have some of those JMO 120L's from Coolcases and they are a little quieter than an L1A Panaflo at 12V but at 7V and 5V they have a fairly bad "tick" that the L1As don't have. It's loud enough to bother me and I don't use them. 120mm L1A Panaflos at 5V are what I run in my SLK3700. They are quieter than any other 120mm fan that I've treid (Enermax, Papst 4412, JMC 120L, Aluminum Panaflo).

marc999 · Post by **marc999** » Tue May 06, 2003 7:36 pm

Doh !! I haven't even used the fans yet (JMC 120L) and they're already obsolete !!

Oh well, that's the name of the game. In a weird way that's part of the fun. I'd rather know than not know, that's for sure, so thanks for the info Ralf. Since I plan on 5V my 120mm fans, I think I will order some Panaflows ASAP !! Hmm, I wonder how loud it would be to have a 5V 120mm Panaflow at the front and a 12V JMC 120L at the back ? Well, I guess I can always try it out !!

dago,
Good job on the 120mm fan SPCR data base !!

Gxcad · Post by **Gxcad** » Tue May 06, 2003 8:25 pm

marc, I think it is important to note that opinions vary, I find the panaflo L1A at 5v produces a low hum, and although quiet, it is not VERY quiet even at 5v IMHO. I will compare it with the JMC fan that I get (which may or may not be different from the 61cfm 26dba version) although it will be purely from memory as I've sold my panaflos a while back....hmmm maybe shoulda kept em...or at least one of em;). Also, if the sale is still on and the JMC fan is indeed fairly quiet, it is CHEAP! at $7 each. I'd rate the 120mm panaflo @ 5v to be ever so slightly louder than a suspended cuda IV 80gb (2 platter version) but such a small amount that it is hard to tell which one is louder without straining.

-Ken

marc999 · Post by **marc999** » Tue May 06, 2003 8:30 pm

Ralf,
I just noticed something. My D8000/Compucase LX-6A19 won't let me install a 38mm fan in the front unless I completely remove the internal 3.5" bay rack !!

This isn't a huge issue, since I mount my Barracuda in an enclosure in the 5" bay, but I thought the D8000/Compucase LX-6A19/ Antec SLK3700 were pretty much the same case (except that the D8000/Compucase LX-6A19 doesn't have the door over the front bezel). Do you have to remove the cage to fit the 38mm thick Panaflow, or was Antec smart and moved the cage back a few millimeters in the SLK3700?

Gxcad,
It makes sense what you were saying about how the perceived sound levels can be different. However, most would agree that a clicking noise is rather obtrusive. Either way, once you get your similar fan from Directron it would be nice to hear your opinion on the subject
(JMC 120L vs Panaflow 120L each @ 5V).

Td_nw · Post by **Td_nw** » Tue May 06, 2003 8:44 pm

marc99,

I searched and could not find it, but I swear I remember someone speaking about squeezing a 38mm fan in the front of this case, but they had to do a small, simple mod. Of course, I could be thinking of something else.

Looking at the case, do you see away to pull off getting a 38mm in front with the drive cage in place. (I have ordered this case and am planning a few things for it when it arrives.)

I must be getting old, as I cannot rememeber who and where or what topic. I will probably remember after I post this.

marc999 · Post by **marc999** » Tue May 06, 2003 9:06 pm

Td_nw,

Looking at the case, do you see away to pull off getting a 38mm in front with the drive cage in place

Not really but I'm pretty dumb when it comes to mechanical type stuff !! See, the cage affixes itself to the bottom of the case via a screwed in "island". One could drill new holes in the bottom of the case and move the "island" back but then the top of the cage wouldn't line up properly. The cage up top locks in with a special mechanism, using rails. So once you moved it back, the cage wouldn't lock in. Also, you would probably have to file the top of the cage down so that it wouldn't have problems sliding underneath a "non-railed" section, and then it probably wouldn't be that secure.

Anyway, where there's a will, there's a way, so it probably could be done, but it would be no small task and it would take someone with a lot of mechanical type skills.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Wed May 07, 2003 3:38 am

A 38mm Panaflo fits into the front of the SLK3700/D8000 but you have to (temporarily) remove the drive bay cage, install the fan and then replace the drive bay cage. There's only about .050-.075" of room to spare but it will fit.

I don't need (or run) it in the front of my SLK3700 but I put one in to see if it would fit when someone asked me about it about six months ago. Here a pic I took:

dago · Post by **dago** » Wed May 07, 2003 6:10 am

to summarize current comments on 120mm fans (updated web page)

panaflo is better than papst
enermax is better than papst
jmc is (sometimes) better than panaflo
papst is better than a ton of other fans

which lead to a situation as clear as mud ... so you better check yourself (for me it'll be easy, there's just 2 affordable brand available here)

marc999 · Post by **marc999** » Wed May 07, 2003 8:44 am

Ralf,

I don't need (or run) it in the front of my SLK3700 but I put one in to see if it would fit when someone asked me about it about six months ago.

Hmmm, now I'm confused. Both Katana Man (in his "Mean Machine" article) and Jim H. from CoolCases.com said that a 38mm thick front fan will not fit. Maybe it's just because the Antec has things moved back a bit? Well, either way I'm going to give it a try and I'll let you all know how it goes.

Just curious Ralf, what are you using for Front/Rear Intake/Exhause 120mm case fans? (I'm not quite sure if you meant that you're not using any fan at all in the front, so I wanted to clarify - plus see what you're using in the back!!).

Thanks.

Katana Man · Post by **Katana Man** » Wed May 07, 2003 10:01 am

I currently have these 120mm fans:
Papst 4412
Coolcase's JMC 120L
EZ Fan FP108MS3
Panaflo L1A
Globe 12L

All are good quiet fans. All look great on paper. I do not have any testing equipment, but in my opinion, the Papst wins.

They are all pretty close, but the Papst excels in it's perfect balance, and runs smooth as a baby's butt. The Papst also is the only one in which the fan blades are like an airplane wing. Thick to thin. It just eminates quality all over. So score 1 for the Papst in the deatchmatch.

Wouldn't it be great if someone could buy all of these fans test them with equipment?

herosformula · Post by **herosformula** » Wed May 07, 2003 10:32 am

emanates

I wonder how each fan would rate based on horizontal versus vertical mounting?

Katana Man · Post by **Katana Man** » Wed May 07, 2003 10:36 am

I'm sure they would have different ratings since the bearings would receive their weight load in different places. Most people here have found that blowholes are not the best solution, so horizontal mounting isn't really a concern.

marc999 · Post by **marc999** » Wed May 07, 2003 12:20 pm

Katana Man,

All are good quiet fans. All look great on paper. I do not have any testing equipment, but in my opinion, the Papst wins.

I was wondering at what voltage the Papst wins: All, 12V, 7V, or 5V?
I've heard the Papsts start to click when undervolted.

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Thu May 08, 2003 7:14 am

marc999 wrote:Ralf,
I don't need (or run) it in the front of my SLK3700 but I put one in to see if it would fit when someone asked me about it about six months ago.

Hmmm, now I'm confused. Both Katana Man (in his "Mean Machine" article) and Jim H. from CoolCases.com said that a 38mm thick front fan will not fit. Maybe it's just because the Antec has things moved back a bit? Well, either way I'm going to give it a try and I'll let you all know how it goes.

Just curious Ralf, what are you using for Front/Rear Intake/Exhause 120mm case fans? (I'm not quite sure if you meant that you're not using any fan at all in the front, so I wanted to clarify - plus see what you're using in the back!!).

Thanks.

My rear fan is a 5V 120mm L1A. I'm running a 5V 92mm L1A in front, not to cool the case (because the case temp stays the same with or without the fan in front) but to blow a little cooling air onto my HDD. The airflow of this SLK3700 is so good that I have found a front fan to be unnecessary for cooling.

There was a discussion in a past thread where several people were beefing me for not using a 120mm front intake fan just because the mounting points are there. I was never able to get the point across that having a fan in the front did nothing to cool the case and only added noise.

Katana Man · Post by **Katana Man** » Thu May 08, 2003 7:53 am

marc999 wrote:I was wondering at what voltage the Papst wins: All, 12V, 7V, or 5V?
I've heard the Papsts start to click when undervolted.

Well these 4412's I received do not click. Keep in mind some people are using PWM verses other methods to reduce voltages. It's my understanding the PWM can cause certain fans to click and even cause damage (according to Comair). I'm using a rehostat to reduce the voltage.

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Thu May 08, 2003 12:30 pm

Keep in mind that I have tried several 4412s with non-pwm voltage control and they still give sound. I think there is a lot of unit to unit variations with Papst as I've tried a lot of them

Gxcad · Post by **Gxcad** » Tue May 13, 2003 2:49 am

Well I received and installed the fans today, JMC fans from directron that is. For the price, these are fantastic fans and I find them quieter than the panaflo 120L at both 12v and 5v. Of the 5 I ordered, 3 of them are a hair louder than the last two, but it is very slight. I would not describe the sound as clicking but I would not be suprised if another person, hearing the exact same sound, described it as clicking. Here is my best attempt at how each sounds at 5v (type of sound not how loud it is):

Panaflo @ 5v: Burrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......

JMC from directron @ 5v: errrrrrrrrrrrrr......

Like I said I don't have the panaflo anymore and I'm writing only from what I remember but I believe they both have a similar sound only the JMC is a bit quieter at both 12v and 5v compared to the panaflo. Especially at 12v the difference is easily noticable and the panaflo is quite loud at 12v. I chucked all 5 of these in my case @5v and the perceived increase over passive case cooling is just barely noticable, though I haven't tested just how much perceived noise it adds once it is 2am. All 5 of them start consistently at 5v.

Overall a great 120mm fan for $7 from a reputable seller. IMO it is cheaper, thinner, and quieter than the panaflo. For just about a third the price of a papst and half the price of a panaflo, its hard to beat for this performance. The fan I ordered said bare leads but they came tailed with a 4 pin connector, simply swapping the pins allowed me to set the default voltage on the fans to 5v.

-Ken

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Tue May 13, 2003 5:22 am

Gxcad,

can you tell us which models of the JMC did you get?

Also, just to check I understood you right, did you compare JMC's to your memory of Panaflo L1A models (the quietest Panaflos)?

regards,
Halcyon

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Tue May 13, 2003 6:07 am

I thought I would order a couple of JMC and Panaflow fans from Directron as I've been able to find a reseller in the EU for them.

Well, guess what? They only ship to to EU at all.

<sigh>

This is getting really tedious

regards,
Halcyon

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Wed May 14, 2003 6:01 am

Ok, my new object of desire is now the Jaro aka Adda aka Fenshen fans with the hypro bearings.

Has anybody been able to find them for sale anywhere in the 92mm and 120mm (low speed) versions?

regards,
halcyon

halcyon · Post by **halcyon** » Wed May 14, 2003 10:40 pm

I have contacted Fenshen and a couple of Asian resellers to gauge their interest in selling these fans in smaller quantities.

Let's see what happens.

cheers,
Halcyon

Post by **Ralf Hutter** » Thu May 15, 2003 3:44 am

halcyon wrote:Gxcad,

can you tell us which models of the JMC did you get?

Also, just to check I understood you right, did you compare JMC's to your memory of Panaflo L1A models (the quietest Panaflos)?

A bump for an answer to this question.

In my experience with both fans (JMC 120L from Coolcases.com and Panaflo L1A) the Panaflos have less mechanical noise at 5v and 7v than the JMCs. Maybe the JMCs that Gxcad got from Directron are different than the ones that Coolcases sells?

The Coolcases JMC is claimed to be 61cfm at 26dB, the Directron JMC is 54cfm at 32dB. Ahh, manufacturers specifications and claims, how wonderful. The mystery deepens.

Most silent 92mm and 120mm fans (12V DC) ?

Most silent 92mm and 120mm fans (12V DC) ?

Re: Most silent 92mm and 120mm fans (12V DC radial) ?

Re: Most silent 92mm and 120mm fans (12V DC radial) ?