Uncontrollable Scythe SFF21E(1200rpm)

java_ed · Post by **java_ed** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:20 am

I connected this fan to my nForce Fan controller (the original nforce is a 50mm noisy fan spinning at 6000rpm) on the 680i board and set it to 50%. It whines with a steady but medium loud DDDDDDDDDD sound. I tried 90 80 85 60 also.. none of that work.. I also tried the chassis fan plug, same thing..

I put a Noctua LNA adapter to lower the voltage and it works fine. However, I like to be able to control the fan speed dynamically via mobo tools.

What did I do wrong? I was able to control the Noctua fans just fine.

BTW, according to the ratings, the Noctua S12-1200 (81m3h) is supposed to move more air than the Scythe S-Flex 1200 (49 cfm * 0.5886 = 28.84 m3h) There is no way that S12 move more air than the Scythe..

The P12 is decent but I need to lower its speed and then it doesn't move as much air as I like..

Felger Carbon · Post by **Felger Carbon** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:31 am

50% of 6000RPM is 3000RPM. Natcherly, the Sflex continues to run at full speed. You want to control it, use a Fanmate II or similar - something that controls voltage and not RPM. Good luck!

FlorisNielssen · Post by **FlorisNielssen** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:43 pm

But then the Noctua's should run slower either... And he could control them..
Not that I have a solution though.

About the Noctua/S-flex problem: what you could be noticing is the low pressure of the Noctua. Because of the tiny blades they do push a lot air, but they don't do it with high pressure (that's why they are not suited for tight heatsinks).

java_ed · Post by **java_ed** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:53 pm

The S12 doesn't pull enough hotair out of the case after I replaced my Thermaltake TT-1225 rear exhaust & front intake fans with two S12. The temperature raise by 4-6c idle.. and moved up too fast under load (I didn't let it finish..)

Now, I put a P12 in the rear exhaust (at full speed) and S12 at front, temperature raise by about 2C idle, and 51c under load, which is about the 3-4c higher. (not too bad)

This is in a Thermaltake Armor VA80003BWS case which doesn't have holes big enough to fit those silicon mounts. So, I am going to drill bigger holes into the case. And it doesn't really have a front(just mesh vent) so it max air flow at the expense of noise blocking.

But I am still scratching my head on the S-flex fan which should be controllable without that annoying DDDDDDDDDDDDDD... sound..

Lou_H · Post by **Lou_H** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:46 pm

Maybe the problem has something to do with the clicking noise described in this post:
viewtopic.php?t=45533
The subject states that Speedfan is the cause, but it is suggested that maybe it is the MB using a voltage pulse to read the fan speed below 50%.

Bluefront · Post by **Bluefront** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:44 am

There is one way to test if you are having a PWM-induced fan noise. And I'm not talking about airflow noise. PWM noises are different.....they can be described as clicking, humming. howling, etc.

If you have a PWM control, just run the fan speed up to 12v, or 100%. At that fan speed, there is no modulation (the "M" in PWM), just a straight analog 12V. If you hear an increase in airflow noise, but the other sorts of noise vanish, you've got a PWM problem.

On my Intel board, if I disable the fan control in the BIOS, the fans all run at 12V....... the PWM noises vanish. The other fix.... an M-Cubed device called an Attenuator. It can usually cure PWM noise, but usually also stops the RPM signal.

java_ed · Post by **java_ed** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:11 pm

I suspected it was the PWM since there is no DDDDD at 100%. This may be a stupid question. Is all the bios controlled fan speed all PWM?

How can you a 3-pin head plug on your mobo is voltage controlled vs PWM controlled?

I have a 4-pin head plug for the CPU fan so I thought that was the only PWM controlled.. aparently, I am wrong..

Lou_H · Post by **Lou_H** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:55 pm

java_ed wrote:

How can you a 3-pin head plug on your mobo is voltage controlled vs PWM controlled?

I have a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 motherboard and the CPU fan header is a 4 pin that can control a 4 pin PWM fan or a 3 pin non-PWM fan (regular fan). The MB will detect if it has a 3 pin or 4 pins connected and control it by PWM for 4 pins and regular voltage control for 3 pins.
I have a 3-pin Sythe fan connected to it and the MB still controls the speed of the fan based on the temperature of the CPU. I also can use the supplied utility Easy Tuner 5 to adjust the fan control speed.

I don't know exactly how the fan is controlled with a 4 pin fan, but it is part of Intelâ€™s Quiet System Technology that I guess is suppose to control the fan more accurately.

KenAF · Post by **KenAF** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:26 pm

Lou_H wrote:java_ed wrote:
How can you a 3-pin head plug on your mobo is voltage controlled vs PWM controlled?
I have a Gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 motherboard and the CPU fan header is a 4 pin that can control a 4 pin PWM fan or a 3 pin non-PWM fan (regular fan). The MB will detect if it has a 3 pin or 4 pins connected and control it by PWM for 4 pins and regular voltage control for 3 pins.
I have a 3-pin Sythe fan connected to it and the MB still controls the speed of the fan based on the temperature of the CPU. I also can use the supplied utility Easy Tuner 5 to adjust the fan control speed.

I don't know exactly how the fan is controlled with a 4 pin fan, but it is part of Intelâ€™s Quiet System Technology that I guess is suppose to control the fan more accurately.

When you use the "Easy Tuner 5" utility, does it adjust the setting in the bios? Or does that software have to be running in Windows?

Lou_H · Post by **Lou_H** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:33 pm

Easy Tune 5 is a Gigabyte motherboard overclocking utility that runs in Windows but lets you change settings in the BIOS without rebooting. After I change the settings I can exit the program and it keeps the settings even when I reboot the PC and don't run the program again.
When I am in the BIOS I can only enable or disable the fan control.

It does not let you set the exact speed of the fan but it gives a setting for percent of fan speed and what temp to go to that percent of speed.
I have it set to be at 20% speed below 22c and 100% speed at above 55c. I never get to 55c so the fan never goes more than 70% speed.

KenAF · Post by **KenAF** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:28 am

Lou_H wrote:Easy Tune 5 is a Gigabyte motherboard overclocking utility that runs in Windows but lets you change settings in the BIOS without rebooting. After I change the settings I can exit the program and it keeps the settings even when I reboot the PC and don't run the program again.
When I am in the BIOS I can only enable or disable the fan control.

It does not let you set the exact speed of the fan but it gives a setting for percent of fan speed and what temp to go to that percent of speed.
I have it set to be at 20% speed below 22c and 100% speed at above 55c. I never get to 55c so the fan never goes more than 70% speed.

Thanks.

I assume the bios also retains those % speed settings after you turn off the computer? So you just need to set everything once, then the software is no longer needed?

The picture above shows fan control for the northbridge. I assume that is for a northbridge fan header. Can you set that option on your motherboard?

java_ed · Post by **java_ed** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 1:02 pm

eVga or Nvidia has a tool call Ntune, which is gonna be in the top 10 most cursed tool ever existed.

I used it as well as bios to control fans like the AC Freezer Pro 7 just fine. And it works with the Noctua P12 and S12 (with some statics profile on the P12).

The SFlex 21E produces a loud Morse code DeeDeeDee sound that is unmistaken as soon as I dropped the speed to below 100%.

If I use a volatge adapter like LNA or ULNA on the SFlex, it gets the DeeDee as well but at a much lower level.

I hate to think I need to get a fan control just for the SFlex and currently, it is the only fan in my case that refuses to drop speed.. But I see it is a very popular fan, so people use it all the time at lower speed.. I wonder what I did wrong?? Or could this just be a bad fan?

Has anyone lowered their SFlex speed via mobo using bios or other utilties? (And without the loud DeeeDee..) I need to confirm that is the case and RMA this fan..

Lou_H · Post by **Lou_H** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:37 pm

KenAF wrote

I assume the bios also retains those % speed settings after you turn off the computer? So you just need to set everything once, then the software is no longer needed?

Correct, the software is just used to recalibrate the settings and does not need to be running.

The picture above shows fan control for the northbridge. I assume that is for a northbridge fan header. Can you set that option on your motherboard?

My version of Easy Tune 5 does not look like that. I have only two settings for the CPU speed and temp (a min. and maximum).
I dont have the Northbridge settings either. I downloaded the latest version of ET5 but still do not have the extra settings. Maybe my MB (GA-P35-DS4 v2.0) does not support the features. The northbridge fan header does not have a speed sensor either.
The manual for ET5 is very basic and does not explain much. The Gigabyte web site does not give much information either.
Also ET5 does not give all the temperatures and fan speeds. I use Speedfan to read the temps and speeds.

_______________________________
java_ed wrote

Has anyone lowered their SFlex speed via mobo using bios or other utilties? (And without the loud DeeeDee..) I need to confirm that is the case and RMA this fan..

I have used S-Flex D,E,F and SlipStream 1200rpm, and Nactua NF-P12 with the CPU fan header and automatically controlled by the BIOS (not by Intel PWM 4 pin) without any DeeDee or any other odd clicking noise at any speed. This is with the Gigabyte MB fan controller with the BIOS set to control by voltage (legacy) and not PWM. I am not using Speedfan to control the fan.

If you can plug the S-Flex into another fan header or to a PSU connector with something to manually reduce the voltage and it does not make the noise, then I doubt it is a bad fan but rather a problem of how the S-Flex works with your MB setup.
Do you have the BIOS fan control set to run in voltage or legacy (3 pin fan) mode and not PWM mode?

KenAF · Post by **KenAF** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:43 pm

Lou_H wrote:KenAF wrote
I assume the bios also retains those % speed settings after you turn off the computer? So you just need to set everything once, then the software is no longer needed?
Correct, the software is just used to recalibrate the settings and does not need to be running.

Thanks.

Lou_H wrote:
The picture above shows fan control for the northbridge. I assume that is for a northbridge fan header. Can you set that option on your motherboard?
My version of Easy Tune 5 does not look like that. I have only two settings for the CPU speed and temp (a min. and maximum).
I dont have the Northbridge settings either. I downloaded the latest version of ET5 but still do not have the extra settings. Maybe my MB (GA-P35-DS4 v2.0) does not support the features. The northbridge fan header does not have a speed sensor either.

The manual for ET5 is very basic and does not explain much. The Gigabyte web site does not give much information either.
Also ET5 does not give all the temperatures and fan speeds. I use Speedfan to read the temps and speeds.

Thanks again.

It looks like fan control for other headers is only available on Gigabyte's high-end motherboards. In Anandtech's recent review of the GA-X48T-DQ6, they had this to say:

There are eight fan headers to provide cooling options to all key motherboard areas. Fan control is offered via the supplied Easy Tune 5 Pro software for the CPU, System, and Power fan headers.

cpemma · Post by **cpemma** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:00 pm

java_ed wrote:I suspected it was the PWM since there is no DDDDD at 100%. This may be a stupid question. Is all the bios controlled fan speed all PWM?

Motherboard speed control is either a genuine PWM control signal plus a constant 12V to the electronics (4-pin connector mobos only) or DC of variable quality produced by smoothing high-frequency PWM pulses generated by the board electronics (older boards and 4-pin boards with BIOS fan control set to 'voltage' mode).

One problem is the smoothing is geared to a "typical" (ie, the stock Intel/AMD) HSF current, which often doesn't suit a low-noise, low-current after-market fan.

As an aside, my Gigabyte P35-DS3L fan control performs perfectly with the 3-pin 120mm Scythe fan that comes with the Ninja; at idle it's running about 750RPM, under stress testing (CPU around 53C) it reaches 1120RPM.

I don't use the Gigabyte software, just enabled the BIOS 'CPU Smart Fan control'.

Dutchmm · Post by **Dutchmm** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:48 pm

this board is a ga-n680sli-dq6?

then it should have two fan control settings in the bios. one set for the CPU fan, and one - with less detail control - for the system fan. By default, the latter is
disabled. Also, FWIW, I recently backed out a BIOS upgrade for another gigabyte board - ga-p35-ds4 - because it raised the CPU fan floor rpm from 300 to 900.

HTH

Mike

java_ed · Post by **java_ed** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:51 pm

It is a evga 680i SE board. It has 5 fan controls in the bios (2 of them smart control which you can specify rules to raise the speed under what temperature) and 1 VREG by default use onboard control unit (I have no idea what that means)

The board has 5 3-pin fan plugs and 1 4-pin CPU fan plug. So, only 1 plug (the sys fan) is not controllable in BIOS.

All of them(except the VREG), however, are controllable in nTune, the infamous utilities from nVidia.

I don't have problem with 900 rpm. The floor for the nForce is 50% and it shows near 5000rpm after I set it to 50%. That is one loud fan even at 50%.

The board has Winbond W83627DHG superIO chip according to Speedfan. I have never set it to control the voltage output and don't know if it is the proper thing to do. I asked people about this on evga. Noone seems to know.

java_ed · Post by **java_ed** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 2:38 pm

I contacted Scythe and they tested theirs without problem. Therefore, they said mine may be defective. (It could also be combination of the fan and the board but the board controls the Noctua fans just fine)

So, now I have the option to either RMA back to Scythe or to the vendor. Wonder if it makes a difference..

Uncontrollable Scythe SFF21E(1200rpm)

Uncontrollable Scythe SFF21E(1200rpm)

RE:Uncontrollable Scythe SFF21E(1200rpm)

Sounds as though ...