Please share your favorite fan/s- Yate loon... Scythe?

velvet45 · Post by **velvet45** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:48 pm

I am building the system in signature, and need some fans. Right now I am thinking of adding some Scythe Slipstream or S-Flex, for the processor and case.
What are some good fans you guys are using right now (model #'s please!) and what speeds? Last time I was at this site a couple of years ago, Yate Loons were the supreme fan for the money, but now I see a lot of stuff about these new Scythe fans.
Recommendations??

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:06 am

i can only recommend the slipstreams as i have not used the others, but i wasnt dissapointed. i am using 4 800's and i cant hear them. i also have a 1200 slipstream on the cpu and that is barely audible.

if any of the others are better than i would impressed.

as for airflow, i was really surprised at how much air was pushed by the 800.
they keep my system cool, despite an oc i dont have high performance components for gaming etc. if you do then you cant go wrong with the 1200 slipstream.

i would recommend them, but i had to get the 800's shipped from US to UK.

thejamppa · Post by **thejamppa** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:33 am

I am using 1200 RPM Sflex on SI-128SE on mobo control. Works like charm. My another choice would be 120mm NCB Fan unvervolted or mobo control. Max RPM's 1300 is audiable but down to 7v or less its inaudiable.

For case fans, I don't think nothing really beats Slips streams 800 - 1200 seems to be best ones. 500 is decent and rest seem bit too fast. Nexuses are good too.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:55 am

I'm not sure of the pricing on these other ones, but I still favor the Yate Loon D12SL-12's, in whatever color pattern they are coming in. So cheap and undervolt nicely at 5V. Work well enough in my situation...which is quiet but not *silent* surroundings.

A quick look at jab-tech, yeah, you can get 3-5 YL's for the price of one Scythe. Ouch.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:51 am

Hello,

The Scythe Slipstreams are $8 at Jab-Tech:

http://www.jab-tech.com/Scythe-KAZE-JYU ... -3942.html

They are much quieter than even the low speed Yate Loon; and they cost just $3 more.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:48 am

Neil, you are right in suggesting the Slipstream but wrong in saying the difference is $3.

http://www.jab-tech.com/home.php?cat=81 ... irection=0

$3.60 for a D12SL-12 in your choice of color and corner type
$7.99 for a slipstream in your choice of 5 different speeds.

It's only $4.39 difference but it is also more than twice the price. I have two of the Yate Loon D12SL-12 and they sound smoother than a TriCool on low (which isn't saying too much but then I don't have a slipstream or sflex to compare to yet). I'm pretty sure it is worth the extra money to go with the slipstream but I'm also sure that the Yate Loons aren't a mistake if you want to save money.

I'm not sure why psiu said 3 to 5 YL's for the price of a Scythe. He must have been looking at the SFLEX

$3.60 for a D12SL-12 in your choice of color and corner type
$13.95 for a SFLEX in your choice of 4 different speeds.

Myself I'd want to go with the 1200 RPM slipstreams all the way around and use speedfan or hardwire for 5 volt operation depending on the placement of the fan. If you think it's too much of a hassle to do the 5v trick then use a 1200 on the CPU heatsink and 800s on the intake and exhaust.

You could consider doing Yate Loons at 5v or 7v for cheap fans but depending on many variables you may not be able to rely on the YL to start at 5v.

You could argue that An SFLEX would be better for use on the CPU heatsink as it has a more durable bearing but that is a tossup to personal preference. You get a slightly smoother sound from the Slipstream by most accounts so you could give up some on lifetime to keep the noise down a hair.

Given that buying only one fan gives you no insurance versus sample variance I'd just buy enough slipstreams to cover all the positions you plan to use plus one Yate Loon for comparison/insurance.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:18 am

I dunno...saw fancy fans starting at ~10 and going up to 20+

All my YL's have always started at 5V. Black/black, black/orange, orange/orange.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:28 am

Hi,

I missed the $3.60 YL -- I was referring to the $4.95 models. Either way, the Slipstreams are also reasonably priced -- and they are a lot quieter (the 800RPM model, in particular). The Yate Loon low speed is 1350RPM, and the YL made Nexus is 1,000RPM; so, 800RPM's is going to be quieter -- and $8 is not too much to pay for a very quiet fan.

velvet45 · Post by **velvet45** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:56 pm

I want to thank each of you for the great information

You guys are all great!
I have learned so much in the past from this forum. I do have some yate loons DS12 SL 12's that I can use for comparison. I bought a box of ten of them a few years back that have never been used.
I think I will go ahead and order some Slipstreams (800's) and a few 1200's and have some fun with this.
Are these good to run off Mobo fan header for HSF using bios control or speedfan?
The S-flex sound awesome too. Maybe just one to try...

Ash · Post by **Ash** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:15 am

slipstreams are a good choice, but you could always try the s flex to compare, thats really the only way to find out.

im happy with my slipstreams, i run 2 of them from the MB, the rear and front in my p182.

i recently got a sunbeam fan controller, which allows me to turn fans off, i can connect up to 4, but i have to additional fans connected to the controller 1 of them being the top fan. with regards to sound there really isnt a need for a fan controller with 800's but i just got it to be able to turn them off, or in the case of the top fan, slow it down so it doesnt interfere too much with the rear exhaust.

Ross1 · Post by **Ross1** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:12 am

the s-flex have been several grades above all the other fans i have had, which include tri-cools, sharkoon silent eagles, and really shit akasa and coolermaster ones.

walle · Post by **walle** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:28 am

My personal favourites are still the Nexus Real Silent fans. I do use Schyte Slipstreams (1200 and 800rpm versions), still, Nexus is Nexus and theyâ€™re a wee bit smoother, to my ears anyway and smoothness is something I highly value.

I currently use a 1200 Slip on my HR-01 Plus and Nexus for intake and exhaust in my surf rig, it works just great.

I have no experience with the S-Flex fans though, so I canâ€™t comment on them, but going on some user experiences seems to suggest that theyâ€™re good too.

Anyway, there plenty of fans to go around which provides more then ample cooling for a quiet orientated rig. Noctua, Schyte, Nexus, Sharkoon and Noiseblocker. Out of these I tend to find the Nexus and the Nocta (P12..erhm) the most smooth ones, reservation for sample variations of course.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:24 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:Hi,

I missed the $3.60 YL -- I was referring to the $4.95 models. Either way, the Slipstreams are also reasonably priced -- and they are a lot quieter (the 800RPM model, in particular). The Yate Loon low speed is 1350RPM, and the YL made Nexus is 1,000RPM; so, 800RPM's is going to be quieter -- and $8 is not too much to pay for a very quiet fan.

The $4.95 models are 20mm thin instead of the standard 25mm thickness.

SPCR hasn't tested the YL low speed so I can't give you an exact RPM without doing more work than I'm willing to test one of the ones I have laying around.

Without saying the exact RPM a Yate Loon D12SL-12 would be running at lower RPMs than the 1000 RPM you quote for the Nexus if you run the Yate Loon at 7v. Even lower than that if you run it at 5v.

Sure you could slow the Nexus down even further but what's the point? Once you get below the noise floor of the other components in your case your objective is achieved.

Going by the same site our comparison is

$3.60 for a Yate Loon D12SL-12 in your choice of color and corner type
$15.99 for a Nexus D12SL-12 in Black frame with white blades

I just don't see any reason AT ALL to pay 4x the price for a 25% reduction in fan speed. I can get that reduction for free with any one of several ways to control fan voltage.

As to not seeing them there is a design flaw in the jab-tech page setup that when you click to see the 2nd page you lose the sort order (the link is hard coded to show a 2nd page in the default sort order). It makes it easy to not realize they have certain products.

If you want to see them all without using the default sort you can sort by price, review the page, then reverse the sort by price and review from the overlapping price point.

And while you may prefer the 800 RPM noise level I'm happy to buy the next faster fan and use fan control methods to get there and either save money or have the flexibility of variable speed fans.

Stravos · Post by **Stravos** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:42 pm

Are ball bearing fans still recommended for horizontal mounting, as for a blow-hole?

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 4:42 pm

Hello,

Almost all sleeve bearing fans (and ball bearing fans) can be used in any position. Only one fan (that I know of) slows down a little when blowing down, but it is fine when blowing upward.

I don't know where this "issue" comes from.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:29 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:Hello,

Almost all sleeve bearing fans (and ball bearing fans) can be used in any position. Only one fan (that I know of) slows down a little when blowing down, but it is fine when blowing upward.

I don't know where this "issue" comes from.

Welcome to SPCR Mr. Neil Blanchard, let me point you to http://www.silentpcreview.com/article690-page1.html

The very first table in that article mentions it but due to the effort required to reproduce a table in BBcode I'll ask that you click on the link above to view it.

If for some reason you would prefer to avoid clicking that link I will however quote sections of text from the article.

"Fan Mounting: Fan orientation does not affect the longevity of ball-bearing fans because of preloading, the procedure by which manufacturers build an initial side load, such as a spring or a wave washer against the balls of the bearing. When mounted in vertical positions, sleeve-bearing fans can maintain life spans comparable to their ball-bearing counterparts. However, when sleeve-bearing fans are mounted in any position other than vertical, the fan's life span decreases.

SPCR's Take on Sleeve vs. Ball

The advantages of ball bearings for general application in computer equipment are clearly spelled out in the NMB comparison. For silent computing, the advantages of ball bearing fans are only relevant if the acoustics at low and very low speed are very good. The advantages of sleeve bearings are certainly relevant for silent computing. The Comair-Rotron article shows why PC silencers might prefer sleeve bearing fans. They are...

* Quieter than ball bearings, especially at low speed, and stay quieter throughout their life â€” the most compelling aspect for SPCR

* Good for >3 years continuous use in up to 60Â°C; longer in cooler conditions â€” good enough for most well-designed PCs used in quiet home environments. It should be noted that concerns about >5yr lifespans for fans become moot; most PCs do not have much longer usable lifespan.

* Less prone to damage during shipping and handling. This is a conjecture I made in the Fan Testing Methodology article (Editor's Note at the bottom of page 2); Comair-Rotron gives support to my suspicion.

The caveats against sleeve bearing fans are...

* Don't use them in any orientation other than vertical. Not only do they not last as long, they quite often make more noise in positions other than vertical.

* Don't expect them to last as long in very hot conditions. Ball bearing fans in the same hot conditions will last longer though they get noisier, which is why they are almost universally used in rarely-attended server machines that are locked away in air-conditioned rooms. Ball bearings screech as they wear out so there is some warning of pending failure. In contrast, sleeve bearings usually stop working without warning. This does not necessarily spell disaster, as most PCs have some features that warn of high temperatures. Also, overheating of a component causes instability in the PC which will usually be investigated by the user. (If the PC is left on while the user is absent, then the fan failure could turn into a more expensive problem; all the more reason to turn it off when you're not there.) For the average personal PC user, it may be wise to routinely replace a sleeve bearing fan used on a hot heatsink after a few years of service.

While I did not reproduce all the bolding of the quoted text please note that the text bolded in this quote was bolded in the original article. Any difference in formating is a result of the limitations of BBcode and my laziness in attempting to reproduce said formating.

While page 2 of the article mentions that Modified Sleeve Bearings allow great freedom in working position (i.e., not just vertical) the way fans are sold most are generally marked as either sleeve bearing or ball bearing. The average consumer that reads the SPCR article mentioned above will assume his choice of a roughly $4 Yate Loon fan or even the roughly $8 Scythe Slipstream will come with the trade off of shorter lifespan and some issues in orientation and exposure to heat.

If you feel that the article is misleading or worded poorly you might want to contact a Mr. Mike Chin and let him know.

If you would like more support you might also look at http://www.silentpcreview.com/article63-page1.html (Recommended Fans) where similar statements are made and many external documents are referenced to support those statements (the same external links are on page 3 of the Anatomy article).

Given that these two articles are linked to from multiple URLs on SPCR it would take some concerted effort to combat the misinformation in the general user base if those statements are incorrect.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:12 am

We are all well aware of the theory of why sleeve fans should perform worse in a horizontal orientation; but do you actually have any practical experience? I have run several fans in such an orientation, some for 2 years+, and have experienced no issues whatsoever, be it increased noise or impaired RPM.

many external documents are referenced to support those statements

in fact the only reference that is extremely critical of sleeve bearings is the NMB one, who (surprise, surprise) manufacture only ball bearing fans. To quote from the EBM Papst article:

Modern sleeve bearings, now manufactured in high-precision processes, have nothing in common with the old type. They are at least on a par with ball bearings and in many cases are actually superior.
...
The life expectancy of these fans is high and easily comparable with models having ball bearings. During long-term trials under onerous test conditions the service life expectancy was shown to be up to 60,000 hours with fewer than 10% failures over a seven year continuous running period.

http://www.ebmpapst.us/Documents/Bearings.pdf

I have no doubt for industrial applications the very real differences between sleeve and ball bearings are a crucial factor in the purchasing decision, but for the average PC user the conditions are nowhere near as demanding and the lifetime is more than sufficient to alleviate any noise vs longevity debate.

dhanson865 · Post by **dhanson865** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:31 am

jaganath wrote:We are all well aware of the theory of why sleeve fans should perform worse in a horizontal orientation

Apparently Neil wasn't or he wouldn't have said "I don't know where this "issue" comes from."

Now as to the rest of your message I can't argue for or against. I have no data empirical, statistical, or otherwise to support or combat the position taken in those articles.

My point is the text on the reference articles on SPCR pretty harshly states not to use sleeve bearing fans for certain reasons. If those reasons are less valid now than they were when the article was written or if they weren't very valid in the first place it should be revised.

So long as those articles stay unrevised you and Neil should expect newbies and lurkers to come away with the impression that they should avoid sleeve bearing fans...

DonQ · Post by **DonQ** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:03 am

My favorites are S-Flex fans (D and E) for the following reason: they are a nearly perfect match to the CPU fan speed controller in my Gigabyte motherboards, GA-K8N51GMF-9 and now a GA-MA770-DS3. With the former motherboad and a 44.1 W Opteron 152 I was able to run the system without a CPU fan, but connected the S-Flex as a case fan to the mobo CPU fan header!

All other fans were a little too much at idle, although I guess I could have used a fan speed controller.

bexx · Post by **bexx** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:42 am

I only use SlipStream and Yateloon fans. I really cannot justify anything else. The SlipStream is IMO VERY impressive for its performance and even more so when considering cost. The Yateloon however is VERY cheap and very often it will get the job done... for $3.

The thing I like best about SS is I can either get 800rpm version to use as a case fan or the 1200rpm to put on a CPU heatsink. Rarely need to mess with fan controller or undervolting. Yateloons at 12v are not quiet... need at least 7 and often 5v to really be silent in a system.

Also I looked up SPCR's review of both these fans the other day and with revised numbers for the Yateloon the SS is really surprising at how well it does. The SS was still better with the previous 'flawed' (dunno better word) testing method but now that Yateloon got revised the SS is impressively better.

Yateloon:
@20 CFM (4.6V) 20 dBA@1m 760 RPM 20 CFM

SS at same RPM:
12V 19 dBA@1m 770 RPM 24 CFM

Thats actually 20% more airflow and 1db quieter... thats not insignificant.

As for the issue with sleeve bearing fans being mounted horizontally I do not believe this to be a very significant issue for our applications. If I was a manufacturer of PSUs I would be more interested in the long term reliability but not as a home user wanting to make a single quiet computer that I'll probably keep 3 years at most.

We don't really have any statistical evidence supporting sleeve bearing fans fail (significantly) earlier when mounted horizontally nor do we really have any reported issues from users with failures like this. Even if we look at worst case we're still talking what, 50k hours instead of 80k? Basically no matter what it'll last 'long enough'.

Aris · Post by **Aris** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 12:52 pm

I really like the 120mm Scythe S-Flex fans. 1200rpm model, though i do still use a zalman fanmate to slow it down.

As for 92mm and 80mm fans, i only use nexus for those sizes.

ssb · Post by **ssb** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:16 pm

Since first tried my first S-Flex three years ago, I'm looking for alternatives with similar if no better performance and sound.

Yate Loons (D12SL) are cheap, quiet but weak and many of them suffer from a ticking - clicking motor noise. Nexus have the same strong and weak points. Slip Streams are much better but only on open air and I never liked cheapo sleeve bearings. Recently I've got a few Noctua P12s and really liked them. Solid, quiet, SSO bearing and great static pressure are some of their pros, however P12 perform poorly when used as case fans. Not to mention their color...

So, once again back to my favorite S-Flexes. Best on heatsinks, best behind restricted filters, great on open air and quiet, not dead silent but really quiet when undervoltaged.

jaganath · Post by **jaganath** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:35 pm

Noctua P12s and really liked them. Solid, quiet, SSO bearing and great static pressure are some of their pros, however P12 perform poorly when used as case fans

this is a contradiction. if their static pressure was really as good as you think, they should be excellent case fans; the fact that they are not casts doubt on your earlier assumption.

ssb · Post by **ssb** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:27 pm

jaganath wrote:this is a contradiction. if their static pressure was really as good as you think, they should be excellent case fans;

Not necessarily! Many high pressure fans don't perform equally on open air. BTW even Noctua don't recommend P12 for case vendilation.

jupitersj · Post by **jupitersj** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:26 pm

Hey everyone! I like to lurk alot lately as I'm finishing a new build soon and didn't want a "screamer" pc ~.~

I don't know if it has been discussed but I did find this thread over on xtremesystems that mentions the clicking is because jab-tech has fake yateloon fans and petrashop has real ones

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... p?t=151144

Supposedly the fake ones have completely different performance and cfm curves at voltages...something to read I think.

cheers,

jupitersj

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:01 pm

Hello,

I guess I disagree with that theory, then. Sleeve bearings work very well in almost every internal combustion engine, and in my Linn turntable (which is horizontal) and my Tandberg reel-to-reel (which I was told would last longer horizontally than vertically!), and in many of the computer fans I have used.

Sure, some sleeve bearing wear out -- but then, so do some ball bearings. Any bearing design and implementation must be well done in order to last long enough, and there are no hard and fast rules. Like "ball bearing fans always last longer than sleeve bearing fans", or, "no sleeve bearing fan can last as long as a ball bearing fan".

I think this issue is way overblown -- if a fan starts to make too much noise, then replace it! I have yet to hear a ball bearing fan that is quieter than the best sleeve bearings -- that's what matters here and now.

pony-tail · Post by **pony-tail** » Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:42 pm

I still have Panaflo fans that date back to socket 7 days and are still in use , I have had some become noisy due to the lubricant leaking out - over the years the rubber oil seal on the back of the bearing perishes and goes hard then leaks , the fan gets noisy and is stuffed . Some of these are 8 years old - the ones with soldered on blue and red wires not the later ones with removable tails , some newer . My opinion is that quality sleeve bearing fans last as long as ball bearing fans . But they usually fail abruptly.
I use more panaflo fans than other brands but that has as much to do with availability as preference but different fans work best in different situations - Panaflo fans can be whiny without some impedance and growl badly with PWM - even Delta produce some very quiet fans (very loud ones too ) some of the recommended fans are almost silent but can't cool a computer in 40+c summers so are not suitable to me - but flow aside I would have to say the Gobe fans , for pleasantness of tone and absence of volume , are my pick .

sochee · Post by **sochee** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:17 am

Great discussion, but are S-Flexes considered ball or sleeve? I've heard the FDB bearing is sleeve, but I thought it was based on a ball bearing.

edit: oops didn't notice the bump

zoatebix · Post by **zoatebix** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:29 pm

The FDB is a kind of sintered sleeve bearing, no?

Exel · Post by **Exel** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:31 pm

Anyone have experiences from fitting a Nexus horizontally (blowing up)? Does it really affect noise levels or longevity?

Please share your favorite fan/s- Yate loon... Scythe?

Please share your favorite fan/s- Yate loon... Scythe?

Re: Please share your favorite fan/s- Yate loon... Scythe?