Which fans for a P182 case and noctua D14

[chode]

Hi, I'm starting to get the final details down on my next purchase and right now I need to decide what fans to get. I would like to be as quiet as possible and keep my computer stable, with the warm but not blazingly hot.

I have an Antec P182 case. I am going to get a Core i7 CPU of some sort, and thinking of getting either a Notcua D14 or a Megahelem rev b. I still can't decide between those two.

The two types of fans that seem to be recommended around here are the Nexus 120mms or the Scythe Slipstream 1200RPM 120mm fans. My question is, how many do you think I should purchase? How many need to go on the front/rear of the case, and how many on the cooler (depending on which one I get)?

I do not plan on overclocking anything, so it just needs to be stable at stock speeds. Thanks!!

[ces]

1. For horizontal fans, consider the Scythe Gentle Typhoons running at their lowest speed. They are the only enthusiast fan with real "BALL" bearings. Everything else, even the s-flexes are just gussied up sleave bearings.

2. For vertical fans, the 1200 rpm slipstream at 5 volts can't be beat. You have room to take it up a number of increments before it starts making noise. And if you want it to move a lot of air, it has the muscle to do that.

If you want to use the S-flex try the SFF21F at 5 volts but it starts making noise once you go much above 5 volts (5v produces 550 rpm 19db and 14 cfm).

The 1200rpm slipstream at 5 volts runs at 720rpm 18db and 24cfm) You have to take the s flex up to 7 volts to do 23 cfm and it is generating 20 db to do that.

Look at these numbers

1200rpm slipstream
5V
18 dBA@1m
720 RPM
24 CFM

7V
21 dBA@1m
890 RPM
30 CFM

S-Flex SFF21F
7V
20 dBA@1m
890 RPM
23 CFM

Nexus
9V
19 dBA@1m
850 RPM
23 CFM

12V
22 dBA@1m
1080 RPM
29 CFM

[ces]

I am going to get a Core i7 CPU of some sort, and thinking of getting either a Notcua D14 or a Megahelem rev b. I still can't decide between those two.

Both are good. You can't make a mistake. Personally the Noctua is just too big for me.

[ces]

Possible Cooling Solutions - Supercoolers (in no particular order)

1. Noctua NH-D14 (King of the Hill - for now)

2. Thermalright IFX 14 (similar to the Noctua NH-D14 but with less fin area and less performance)

3. Prolimatech Armageddon (benchmarks not yet available)

4. Akasa Nero AK967 and Nero S (unassuming over performers that provide exceedingly good cooling with surprisingly little noise)

5. Titan Fenrir TTC-NK85TZ

6. Sunbeamtech Core-Contact Freezer

7. Thermalright Venomous X (middle weight that punches with the heavy weights)

8. Prolimatech Megahalen (a quiet middle weight that punches with the heavy weights)

9. Scythe Mugen 2 (one bit cooler with a lot of fin area)

10. Tuniq Tower 120 Extreme (embedded 120mm fan - equivalent to the Noctua NH-D14)

11. Noctua NH-U12P SE2 (not always the best but always one of the best - the best support in the industry, by far)

12. Thermolab BARAM

13. Thermolab BADA (a 92mm fan cooler better and quieter than most towers - can almost keep up with the Prolimatech Megahalen)

14. Thermalright HR-01+ (wide fin spacing, low impedance, one of the best with slow fans or no fans)

[ces]

Possible Cooling Solutions - Passive or Near Passive (in no particular order)

1. Thermalright HR-01+ (wide fin spacing, low impedance, one of the best with slow fans or no fans)

2. Scythe Ninja

3. Scythe Orochi (most impressive looking passive heat sink)

4. Noctua NH-D14

Possible Cooling Solutions - Special Mention (in no particular order)

1. Stock Cooler (For most people the stock cooler works just fine. Though if you are in this forum, it is likely that the stock cooler will not meet your actual or your perceived needs.)

2. Scythe Katana 3 (small, quiet, cheap, cools motherboard)

3. CoolIT Domino ALC (a popular pre-packaged water cooler kit)

4. Corsair Hydro H50 (a popular pre-packaged water cooler kit)

5. Custom water cooling (Feser apparently has a reputation for designing its heat sinks to be quiet)

[chode]

Thanks ces. How many slipstreams should I get? One for case intake, one for exhaust, and one for the CPU cooler? Would that be sufficient?

[eddieck]

1. For horizontal fans, consider the Scythe Gentle Typhoons running at their lowest speed. They are the only enthusiast fan with real "BALL" bearings. Everything else, even the s-flexes are just gussied up sleave bearings.

Sleeve bearings work fine in horizontal positions. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Even Scythe's product manager has said this about the Slip Streams (and sleeve bearings as a whole).

[ces]

1. For horizontal fans, consider the Scythe Gentle Typhoons running at their lowest speed. They are the only enthusiast fan with real "BALL" bearings. Everything else, even the s-flexes are just gussied up sleave bearings.

Sleeve bearings work fine in horizontal positions. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Even Scythe's product manager has said this about the Slip Streams (and sleeve bearings as a whole).

Dear Eddie

Scythe's product manager, why what better source of info. Which trade show did you talk to him at? If you have his phone number would you post it. It's hard to trust this internet info - that way I can call him and make sure that is what he said, and hear what qualifications he might have to what he said.

I dion't think I made any direct statement about horizontal fans and bearings. But I do understand that sleeve bearings don't last long horizontally. and that sleev bearing fans can even operate more slowly horizontally. The source of my info - I think I picked this info up from SPCR and or an email exchange with Dorothy Bradbury a UK fan engineer whom MikeC seems to respect. I myself am unaware of any valid research going either way. And I think even what SPCR has said about this was carefully worded - more along the lines of caution as opposed to certainty.

I might well be in error. I might even be mis-attributing this info to them. But why don't you do some research and post what credible info you find. But until you do that why don't you try censoring yourself instead of others. No need to detract from what others contribute, you can make your point by adding to it.

Now please, go find some information and prove me wrong. I welcome that. Attempting to censor what I say based on ????? and your obvious ????? credentials - for all I know you are a 16 year old kid? Why don't you show your substance, find the information that supports what you say, from credible sources and post it here.

I for one would like a definitive answer to this issue. I don't have it. I don't have access to that kind of testing data.

(What you quoted was me talking about ball bearings. Are you in fact aware of any other enthusiast fan with ball bearings - are you aware of any other such fans than the GT, the high end NMB and I guess some of the Pabst fans? Well are you?)

[JamieG]

1. For horizontal fans, consider the Scythe Gentle Typhoons running at their lowest speed. They are the only enthusiast fan with real "BALL" bearings. Everything else, even the s-flexes are just gussied up sleave bearings.

Sleeve bearings work fine in horizontal positions. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Even Scythe's product manager has said this about the Slip Streams (and sleeve bearings as a whole).

My understanding is that while sleeve bearings certainly work in a horizontally mounted fan, there are drawbacks:

(Copied my post from one of many threads on this issue)

I've done a simple test with a clear Blue LED Nexus fan that I have lying around and I can hear a change in the sound in free air when I rotate the fan so that it is horizontal and blowing air up, as it would be in a top exhaust position.

For what it's worth, have a look at this report from NMB (originally linked from this Wikipedia article). It may be a little biased towards ball bearing fans, but it talks about lubrication being an issue for sleeve bearing fans.

I also think that horizontal mounting places extra pressure on the sleeve bearing, as the fan weight presses down on the sleeve bearing when it is horizontally orientated to exhaust air up out of the case.

Basically, as I understand it, horizontal orientation of sleeve bearing fans may cause greater noise and also reduce lifespan. Scientifically testing the reduced lifespan potential would possibly take years of 24/7 running, given the MTBF for some sleeve fans (Scythe quotes 30,000 hours for their Slipstreams), although this may apply to fans mounted vertically.

While there are plenty of people who know much more about fan mechanics than I do, my limited experience and the reading I have done suggests that horizontally mounted sleeve bearing fans may be problematic.

[danimal]

1. For horizontal fans, consider the Scythe Gentle Typhoons running at their lowest speed. They are the only enthusiast fan with real "BALL" bearings. Everything else, even the s-flexes are just gussied up sleave bearings.

Sleeve bearings work fine in horizontal positions. Please stop spreading misinformation.

Even Scythe's product manager has said this about the Slip Streams (and sleeve bearings as a whole).

thanks for the link.

the only 120mm fan that has ever failed for me was the p182 stock fan, mounted horizontally in the top vent... it got really noisy, and oiling the bearing didn't help.

still, even if it takes 5 years or whatever before the fan fails in a horizontal mount, you got your money's worth.

[chode]

I don't mean to interrupt an argument, but can I get my last question answered? If I chose to get the scythe slipstreams, how many would be sufficient to cool my computer? One intake, one exhaust, one for the CPU cooler?

[ces]

I don't mean to interrupt an argument, but can I get my last question answered? If I chose to get the scythe slipstreams, how many would be sufficient to cool my computer? One intake, one exhaust, one for the CPU cooler?

OK if you really want to ruin all the fun.

1. Case Fans:

I would propose you start off with one fan pushing air into the case and one pushing it out. If you want positive air pressure, then start with both of those fans pushing air in, letter the air go out however it finds its way out.

2. CPU Fans:

I would propose that you start off with a single fan on the CPU cooler. On the Noctua I would favor a Nexus. Just because I suspect that Nexus can handle pressure a bit better than Slipstream and I suspect that the Noctua generates more back pressure than the Prolimatech.

Though either of those fans are fine fans and either should be able to handle the job with either heat sink.

3. Experiment

There are no absolute truths here. Benchmark tests are a good start, but they are far less precise than most people assume. It is common for different testers to produce different rankings. Your own environment will produce its own unique results. So once you use the public benchmarks to narrow things down, you need to do your own testing.

I would expect that 2 case fans and one CPU heatsink fan with either of those CPU super coolers is likely to produce temps that you find acceptable and comfortable. If not, you need to experiment.

(a) If there is a differential of 10C or less between your in case ambient temps and those in your room, add speed or more fans to CPU cooler. You need to be moving more air past the fin array - or maybe try reseating your CPU cooler.

(b) If there is a differential of 20C or more between your in case ambient temps and those in your room, add speed or more fans to case fans. You need to be moving more air in and out of the case.

4. Video Cards

I didn't deal with your video card. That may have its own set of issues.

But while you are doing the other testing, you definitely want to pay attention to its temps.

5. Does that all make sense to you?

[chode]

5. Does that all make sense to you?

Mostly, except "I would propose that you start off with a single fan on the CPU cooler. On the Noctua I would favor a Nexus. Just because I suspect that Nexus can handle pressure a bit better than Slipstream and I suspect that the Noctua generates more back pressure than the Prolimatech. "

I don't really know what you mean by back pressure. Back pressure to me means that I need to bend over and stretch.

Thanks for your help. I'm getting closer to my purchase. Now I need to research about sound dampening kits.

[ces]

Mostly, except "I would propose that you start off with a single fan on the CPU cooler. On the Noctua I would favor a Nexus. Just because I suspect that Nexus can handle pressure a bit better than Slipstream and I suspect that the Noctua generates more back pressure than the Prolimatech. "

Some heat sinks have loosely spaced fins. So when a fan is attached to them, it faces little resistence (back presssure).

Some heatsinks use dense fin arrays. So when a fan is attached to them, its airstream meets resistance. Some fans lose cfms and start making noise when this happens.

Now, at some point this will happen to any fan. When it does happen, it can happen very quickly once a tipping point is reached. Some fans require a lot of pressure before that tipping point is reached. Other drop to their knees immediately.

Look at the fan blades on the Noctua case fans vs. the fan blades on their CPU fans. You can see the CPU fan blades don't leave much room for the air to back slide. The quieter case fans do.

[Emello]

I have a P182, i7 950 small overclock, 3.5Ghz, Noctua NH-U12P, with Scythe Gentle Typhoon D1225C12BA4AP-14 1450 rpm. there are 4 case fans, Scythe S-flex in the lower compartment, 3 hard drives run 20-low 30's, 3 Tri-cools in middle, rear, and top. The Tri-cools will be replaced soon enough, probably with Gentle Typhoons. Cusom PC magazine 10/09, and the website, bit-tech ( I can't post links, yet) have some recent fan reviews, and liked the Gentle Typhoon. I run the heatsink with 1 fan as adding a second made little difference in core temps. Also, the Noctua fan cools no better than the Gentle Typhoon, but it does fit the clips better. I find I need the middle fan as an intake to keep temps down. The top fan doesn't seem to help more than a degree or 2, even when set to high.

[ces]

I have a P182, i7 950 small overclock, 3.5Ghz, Noctua NH-U12P, with Scythe Gentle Typhoon D1225C12BA4AP-14 1450 rpm. there are 4 case fans, Scythe S-flex in the lower compartment, 3 hard drives run 20-low 30's, 3 Tri-cools in middle, rear, and top. The Tri-cools will be replaced soon enough, probably with Gentle Typhoons. Cusom PC magazine 10/09, and the website, bit-tech ( I can't post links, yet) have some recent fan reviews, and liked the Gentle Typhoon. I run the heatsink with 1 fan as adding a second made little difference in core temps. Also, the Noctua fan cools no better than the Gentle Typhoon, but it does fit the clips better. I find I need the middle fan as an intake to keep temps down. The top fan doesn't seem to help more than a degree or 2, even when set to high.

That seems like too many fans to fit into a P182. Can you explain that in different words?

[Emello]

That seems like too many fans to fit into a P182. Can you explain that in different words?

Rear, top, and front bottom of upper compartment, where the optional extra hard drive holder is- 3 Tri-Cools
Lower compartment, between ps and hard drives- 1 Scythe S-Flex
Heatsink Noctua NH-U12P - 1 Gentle Typhoon
Hope that clears up any confusion.

[eddieck]

Sorry ces. I didn't mean to be rude. I posted the forum link in my last post where it clearly states "product manager" under his post title.

[Qaddis]

That was some pretty amusing flameage. Here, I fixed it for you.

Dear Eddie

Scythe's product manager, why what better source of info. [snarkiness]

I dion't think [info]. But I do understand [info]. The source of my info - [uncertain, or some guy people like.] [I don't know of any research to support my side]

I might well be in error. I might even be mis-attributing this info to them. I won't post any research to support what I've said, but you should.] But until you do that why don't you try censoring yourself instead of others. No need to detract from what others contribute, you can make your point by adding to it. [But I'll freely flame you without backing my arguments!]

Now please, go find some information and prove me wrong. [My points that have no basis or backing other than "some guy said" that I'm not even going to link to.] I welcome that. Attempting to censor what I say based on ????? and your obvious ????? credentials - [for all you know I am a 16 year old kid with no substance] drivel

I for one would like a definitive answer to this issue. I'll yell at you and then admit I don't know what I'm talking about either. I don't have access to that kind of testing data.

[ces]

That was some pretty amusing flameage. Here, I fixed it for you.

Qaddis, you are right. Eiddieck, I apologize for the snarkiness and what followed.

[eddieck]

I was in the wrong too.

Though I think I would tend to trust Scythe, maker of sleeve, ball and fluid bearing fans and well respected around here, against a maker of ball bearing only fans (or retailer if you're talking about Dorothy). NMB and Dorothy obviously have an inherent bias for ball bearings.

Who knows though. Like you said I've seen no hard proof either way. I suspect the only way to get a decent answer would be to try it yourself and see if there are any noise differences or lifetime differences.