Anyone else not liking Gentle Typhoons?

Control: management of fans, temp/rpm monitoring via soft/hardware

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee

Post Reply
gcwebbyuk
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:23 am
Location: East Sussex (UK)

Anyone else not liking Gentle Typhoons?

Post by gcwebbyuk » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:07 am

My case has 4 (5 inc CPU cooler) S-Flex Es (running at 660rpm) and 2 Gentle Typhoon 1850s running at (990rpm).

I find the SFlex fans great, nice noise level and signature. I bought the 2 GTs following reviews that they had a high CFM and a nice noise signature, at higher speeds than most other fans.

However, I find they have an odd noise, especially when changing speeds, and sometimes at certain speeds they make an odd noise as if the bearings aren't quite right - difficult to explain.

They aren't more noisy, just have an odd noise to them.

Anyone else experience this?

ces
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Location: US

Re: Anyone else not liking Gentle Typhoons?

Post by ces » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:25 am

gcwebbyuk wrote:My case has 4 (5 inc CPU cooler) S-Flex Es (running at 660rpm) and 2 Gentle Typhoon 1850s running at (990rpm).

I find the SFlex fans great, nice noise level and signature. I bought the 2 GTs following reviews that they had a high CFM and a nice noise signature, at higher speeds than most other fans.

However, I find they have an odd noise, especially when changing speeds, and sometimes at certain speeds they make an odd noise as if the bearings aren't quite right - difficult to explain.

They aren't more noisy, just have an odd noise to them.

Anyone else experience this?
That seems to be a recurring complaint from some people - others swear by them.

Someone said that particular GTs may have resonances at certain speeds, but that if you run them at their 12 volt speed you avoid the resonance.

ame
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:35 pm
Location: Israel

Re: Anyone else not liking Gentle Typhoons?

Post by ame » Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:51 am

gcwebbyuk wrote:My case has 4 (5 inc CPU cooler) S-Flex Es (running at 660rpm) and 2 Gentle Typhoon 1850s running at (990rpm).

I find the SFlex fans great, nice noise level and signature. I bought the 2 GTs following reviews that they had a high CFM and a nice noise signature, at higher speeds than most other fans.

However, I find they have an odd noise, especially when changing speeds, and sometimes at certain speeds they make an odd noise as if the bearings aren't quite right - difficult to explain.

They aren't more noisy, just have an odd noise to them.

Anyone else experience this?
Let me guess - the review was not an SPCR review...

About the noise - no need to explain, its just a bad fan. Good fans should sound better when undervolted.

I can swear by them too - that at 12V ~1800 RPM they sound like an actual typhoon (or at least a 12cm equivalent).

BTW why do you need so many fans?

Vicotnik
*Lifetime Patron*
Posts: 1826
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:53 am
Location: Sweden

Post by Vicotnik » Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:42 am

I have a single Gentle Typhoon in my system and I like it. Earlier I used a Slipstream and before that a Nexus. All three are good but the Slipstream and the Nexus both had a faint ticking sound that worsened with time.

The Gentle Typhoon is double ball bearing and I hope it will endure a bit longer than the two others. The bearing sound is there, but it doesn't bother me much. It's a faint whisper and constant. A much less intruding sound than a ticking sound.
Mine is an 800RPM model, on a temperature controlled fan header, so RPM is usually at ~400 or lower and it's really quiet. I use silicon fan mounts.

This assessment is from a SPCR point of view, believe me. :) This fan is the only moving part in my system.

ces
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Location: US

Post by ces » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:58 am

Ball bearings have small points of contact compared to sleeve bearings. As a result they don't tolerate shipping as well as to sleeve fans.

That may be contributing to the problem.

b_rubenstein
Posts: 273
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:03 am
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Post by b_rubenstein » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:06 pm

ces wrote:Ball bearings have small points of contact compared to sleeve bearings. As a result they don't tolerate shipping as well as to sleeve fans.
Oh please! this could be the biggest load of crap you've ever posted here.

Do you know anything about bearings? Ball bearings are made from precision ground, hard steel. In a fan assembly they are located in a plastic frame. To achieve an acceleration high enough to damage the bearings the fan's frame would have disintegrated.

Look, these may be high end fans for consumer products, but they are not expensive cooling fans. The same general sized fans used in our aircraft's communications amplifier's PS costs about 50 times as much.

ces
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Location: US

Post by ces » Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:36 pm

b_rubenstein wrote:
ces wrote:Ball bearings have small points of contact compared to sleeve bearings. As a result they don't tolerate shipping as well as to sleeve fans.
Oh please! this could be the biggest load of crap you've ever posted here.

Do you know anything about bearings? Ball bearings are made from precision ground, hard steel. In a fan assembly they are located in a plastic frame. To achieve an acceleration high enough to damage the bearings the fan's frame would have disintegrated.

Look, these may be high end fans for consumer products, but they are not expensive cooling fans. The same general sized fans used in our aircraft's communications amplifier's PS costs about 50 times as much.
You need to calm down, you are getting out of control. You are taking this all too seriously. It's just not that important to get so wrapped up about it.

That is what I was informed by Dorothy Bradbury a UK fan engineer who is a respected and vigorous advocate of using ball bearing fans as opposed to sleeve bearings in fans. After she explained it, it made a lot of sense to me. High precision precision ball bearings, such as the ones used in her fans, are made to very high tolerances - in the order of 50 to 150 atoms in thickness according to Dorothy. So it doesn't take much of a dent in such a surface to disturb that tolerance.

Of course that is just theory. This is backed up by her experience. She ships ball bearing fans for a living.

Here is what MikeC thinks of Dorthy:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article63-page1.html
(go to the bottom of that page, it has a link to her website)

IanM
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:05 am
Location: England

Re: Anyone else not liking Gentle Typhoons?

Post by IanM » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:06 am

gcwebbyuk wrote:Gentle Typhoon 1850s running at (990rpm)
gcwebbyuk wrote:They aren't more noisy, just have an odd noise to them.
gcwebbyuk wrote:Anyone else experience this?
Mine are similarly configured, and behaving much the same. They are indeed odd compared with other fans I've used. At certain speeds they sound wrong, increase the voltage a tiny amount and it the sound improves considerably. I found that with these overall noise is more sensitive to the relative speeds as well. Maybe it's to do with the large hub and high airflow. I had a faint high pitched noise coming from the motherboard - initially I thought it was the fans, but after disabling them and trying different speed combinations I realised the motherboard noise could be amplified or eliminated, whereas my Noctua's don't really alter the tone much at all.

A bit more effort required then to set up the GTs. What is clear cut is that the GTs much more effective at cooling my H50 radiator compared with the stock Corsair fan, Noctua or Lian Li case fans

ces
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Location: US

Re: Anyone else not liking Gentle Typhoons?

Post by ces » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:11 am

IanM wrote: At certain speeds they sound wrong, increase the voltage a tiny amount and it the sound improves considerably. I found that with these overall noise is more sensitive to the relative speeds as well. Maybe it's to do with the large hub and high airflow. I had a faint high pitched noise coming from the motherboard - initially I thought it was the fans, but after disabling them and trying different speed combinations I realised the motherboard noise could be amplified or eliminated, whereas my Noctua's don't really alter the tone much at all.

A bit more effort required then to set up the GTs. What is clear cut is that the GTs much more effective at cooling my H50 radiator compared with the stock Corsair fan, Noctua or Lian Li case fans
Which model GTs are you running at what voltages and rpms?

IanM
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:05 am
Location: England

Post by IanM » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:20 am

same as the OP, 1850rpm model. As a test, using a Noctua ULNA from my S12s into the motherboard headers the fan speed is reported as being 990-1050rpm. In practice I'm using a Lian Li PT-FN03 which is a simple potentiometer that down volts up to 4 fans in one go. Unfortunately I haven't figured out a way to get a report on the actual fan speeds using this simple controller.

ces
Posts: 3395
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:06 pm
Location: US

Post by ces » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:38 am

IanM wrote:same as the OP, 1850rpm model. As a test, using a Noctua ULNA from my S12s into the motherboard headers the fan speed is reported as being 990-1050rpm. In practice I'm using a Lian Li PT-FN03 which is a simple potentiometer that down volts up to 4 fans in one go. Unfortunately I haven't figured out a way to get a report on the actual fan speeds using this simple controller.
So is the takeaway from your experience that if you are going to use GTs, you want to use a variable fan controller so that you can adjust the exact speed of the fans to avoid those harmonic range areas where they generate higher levels of noise?

IanM
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:05 am
Location: England

Post by IanM » Thu Apr 22, 2010 2:46 am

Yes, the pot is a real boon and I wish I got one ages ago!

dkazaz
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:04 pm
Location: Athens

Re: Anyone else not liking Gentle Typhoons?

Post by dkazaz » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:58 am

IanM wrote: Mine are similarly configured, and behaving much the same. They are indeed odd compared with other fans I've used. At certain speeds they sound wrong, increase the voltage a tiny amount and it the sound improves considerably. I found that with these overall noise is more sensitive to the relative speeds as well. Maybe it's to do with the large hub and high airflow. I had a faint high pitched noise coming from the motherboard - initially I thought it was the fans, but after disabling them and trying different speed combinations I realised the motherboard noise could be amplified or eliminated, whereas my Noctua's don't really alter the tone much at all.

A bit more effort required then to set up the GTs. What is clear cut is that the GTs much more effective at cooling my H50 radiator compared with the stock Corsair fan, Noctua or Lian Li case fans
I've noticed that too, especially coming from using Noctua NF-P12's on my H50. But for the amount of air they move at comparable noise levels, there's no beating them!

I eventually accepted that at higher speeds they will make just a bit more noise but will cool a lot better (my system is kind of demanding, but on the other hand it's under my desk so that helps with noise.

I'm even replacing my P180 tricools with GT1850's.

As far as case cooling options go, I find the Noctua's and Nexus's are better in terms of sound quality but move less air.

I also have some Scythe Kaze Jyuni 120mm 1200rpm & 1900rpm. They perform fantastically well at low voltages but better in set-ups with no resistance. They also seem to generate some vibration which can translate into noise in the wrong case. As soon as you increase the voltage they get noisy.

A fan controller really helps getting the GT noise-temperature balance to where you want it 8)

Copyright
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:20 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Copyright » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:04 am

I went from Slipstreams to Gentile Typhoons. I like the slipstreams better. They seem to move more air at the same noise level. All my GT fans have a bit of a click or buzz sound to them. I am replacing them soon.

gcwebbyuk
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:23 am
Location: East Sussex (UK)

Post by gcwebbyuk » Mon Apr 26, 2010 10:41 am

I have switched from air to WC and need to work out which fans to use on the RX240 radiator.

I have tried running the GTs as intake/exhaust mounted vertically in my case. I have had to run them at 770 rpm front intake, and 900 rpm rear exhaust to make them silent enough.

Using the data from X-Bits review of 120mm fans which included both types (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cooler ... up_18.html) the S-Flex's would have a lower CFM at the same noise level. Which is making me wander wether to keep the GTs.

From their noise level data, I am finding 30.3-30.4 dBA to be silent.

This would mean running the GTS at 6v, giving 17.13 CFM or the SFlexs at 7v giving 15.54 CFM. If I go slightly higher to 30.6 dBA, then the GTs would be at 8v giving 23.55 CFM and the SFlexs also at 8v giving 19.03 CFM. Giving a bigger difference in CFM at the slightly higher dBA.

Has anyone noticed a difference mounting them horizontally as they would be on the radiator? I am thinking this may be what could be causing the whine when the speed is increased, maybe different load on the bearings?

Radiator should be here tomorrow anyway, so will try with 2 GTs mounted horizontally on the radiator at 6v and have an S-Flex as the rear exhaust fan at 7v.

Copyright
Posts: 265
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:20 pm
Location: Texas
Contact:

Post by Copyright » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:23 pm

How is the static pressure on the GT fans? I loved the S-flex fans I ran in the past. They were not as quiet but the sound was smooth.

dkazaz
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:04 pm
Location: Athens

Post by dkazaz » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:30 pm

The GT's seem to produce more static pressure and less noise than any other fan I tested with my radiator - my core temperatures lowered quite a bit and the noise levels are very reasonable - I hardly notice them.

I need to be clear that they are not silent - at least, not the 1850rpm models (though I expecte the slower rpm models to be near-silent). However they never go above a gentle buzz and by decreasing the rpm's they are as near silent as you can get fans with such high static pressure -

I tested them against noiseblockers and noctua nf-p12's. The noctua's were nearly totally silent but the static pressure, while decent was nowhere near the GT's.

The noiseblocker was totally silent but had no static pressure at all.

If silence is your thing and you're ok with slightly higher temps (and obviously do not overclock) I think that Noctua is the way to go. If you want maximum performance balanced with lowest noise go with GT's. Note I have not tested the s-flex, though I have tested practically every other scythe (but not on a radiator)....

gcwebbyuk
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:23 am
Location: East Sussex (UK)

Post by gcwebbyuk » Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:34 pm

Will stick with the GTs then - I have 2 of the 1850s which I can run at lower rpm, and 5 S-Flexs, so no reason to buy the Noctuas.

Will see how much quieter they are mounted horizontally rather than vertically.

meridius
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:55 pm

Post by meridius » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:35 pm

Which fan would have a better air flow the s-flex 1200rpm or noctua S12b flx 1200rpm, I ask because I have the flex and hate the motor sound comming from the fan I can make it go away by lowering the rpm to 700 but anything higher and u can hear a wine from the motor. I have a chance of getting a noctua fan and was woundering if it's on par with the sflex fan. I herd alot of good things about the s flex but the motor sound is not good there's even a uyoutube video with the same fan and problem.

Cheers for any help I am going to use these as case fans.

I have a gt 1450rpm on my heatsink and find that does give off a high pitched wine as well and if insole it down this greatly reduces is this a faulty fan or is this normal as I want to run it at it's full speed and sound not have to slow it down to stop the wine thanks

gcwebbyuk
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 5:23 am
Location: East Sussex (UK)

Post by gcwebbyuk » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:09 am

Tried the GTs mounted horizontally, but they still had a slight tick to them, swapped them to s-flexs which create enough cooling at 630rpm, and speed up to 900rpm if the CPU goes over 55c. Nice and quiet :)

chico1st
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:13 am
Location: Canada

Re:

Post by chico1st » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:41 am

ces wrote:
b_rubenstein wrote:
ces wrote:Ball bearings have small points of contact compared to sleeve bearings. As a result they don't tolerate shipping as well as to sleeve fans.
Oh please! this could be the biggest load of crap you've ever posted here.

Do you know anything about bearings? Ball bearings are made from precision ground, hard steel. In a fan assembly they are located in a plastic frame. To achieve an acceleration high enough to damage the bearings the fan's frame would have disintegrated.

Look, these may be high end fans for consumer products, but they are not expensive cooling fans. The same general sized fans used in our aircraft's communications amplifier's PS costs about 50 times as much.
You need to calm down, you are getting out of control. You are taking this all too seriously. It's just not that important to get so wrapped up about it.

That is what I was informed by Dorothy Bradbury a UK fan engineer who is a respected and vigorous advocate of using ball bearing fans as opposed to sleeve bearings in fans. After she explained it, it made a lot of sense to me. High precision precision ball bearings, such as the ones used in her fans, are made to very high tolerances - in the order of 50 to 150 atoms in thickness according to Dorothy. So it doesn't take much of a dent in such a surface to disturb that tolerance.

Of course that is just theory. This is backed up by her experience. She ships ball bearing fans for a living.

Here is what MikeC thinks of Dorthy:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article63-page1.html
(go to the bottom of that page, it has a link to her website)
I always figured that the "ball bearing fans cant be shipped" argument wasn't based on the bearings getting hurt but on the bearings denting the shaft or outer shell. Dents in them would cause a "bumb" noise every rotation. Bearings are hard, i dont know/think the shaft is as hard.
Last edited by chico1st on Sat Jan 29, 2011 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

eNiL
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:54 am

Re: Anyone else not liking Gentle Typhoons?

Post by eNiL » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:24 am

Have a GT AP-15. Bearing noise is significant @ 950rpm compared (aka quite audible even from 3m away in a minimal ambient noise room) as compared to a S-Flex at 800rpm. I know it's not a fair comparison as rpms are different, but I don't have a fan controller.

My take is: GT's don't have a great noise signature at low rpms as their bearing noise overpowers airflow noise. They do, at high rpms though, compared to other "quiet" fans (eg my 1850 rpm GT is approx as noisy to my ears as a 1200rpm Scythe Slipstream as the SS's turbulence signature is far greater).

Anyone have a different opinion?

wendell
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:30 pm
Location: USA

Re: Anyone else not liking Gentle Typhoons?

Post by wendell » Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:54 pm

meridius wrote:...I have the flex and hate the motor sound comming from the fan I can make it go away by lowering the rpm to 700 but anything higher and u can hear a wine from the motor...I have a gt 1450rpm on my heatsink and find that does give off a high pitched wine as well...
eNiL wrote:Have a GT AP-15. Bearing noise is significant...Anyone have a different opinion?
I put something of an answer to these over here.

tim851
Posts: 543
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: 128.0.0.1

Re: Anyone else not liking Gentle Typhoons?

Post by tim851 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:50 am

eNiL wrote:GT's don't have a great noise signature at low rpms as their bearing noise overpowers airflow noise. They do, at high rpms though, compared to other "quiet" fans (eg my 1850 rpm GT is approx as noisy to my ears as a 1200rpm Scythe Slipstream as the SS's turbulence signature is far greater).
They also move less air than other fans at the same RPM. I guess that is because have much less "blade area" because their motor hub is huge.

I have found in my studies of quality fans (Scythe, Noiseblocker and the likes) that all things being equal, variations among fans of the same model is greater than differences between different fans. All fans seem to be quite partial to faulty bearings, atypical motor noise etc., so it seems to be just as likely that two Slip Stream fans @800 rpm have different sound qualities as a Nexus fan running at an equivalent speed.

The hardcore silencers at SPCR will want to slow down every fan far enough that no air turbulance noise is audible anymore. At these speeds, no quality fan should emit motor or bearing noises. If they do, they are faulty.

Post Reply