Case Fan Comparison site

Control: management of fans, temp/rpm monitoring via soft/hardware

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quest_for_silence
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Mar 31, 2011 8:51 am

flemeister wrote:I think that's a hell of a lot more important for choosing quiet fans than any objective data. Forget about comparing numbers, why not just listen to them for yourselves in high-def audio?

TANSTAAFL.
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Luca

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Sooty
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by Sooty » Thu Mar 31, 2011 11:04 am

Mike, at least they are testing fans. SPCR may have superior test equipment, having spent a very long time tweaking a set up you were happy with, but when does it ever get used? Testing fans that come with heatsinks maybe, but I can't remember the last lone or group fan test.

quest_for_silence
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by quest_for_silence » Thu Mar 31, 2011 12:07 pm

Sooty wrote:Testing fans that come with heatsinks maybe

There are also each time there's a case review (and if someone really want to see a particular fan reviewed, he may pay for it).

At anyway, IIRC one complaint often come out by MikeC is that fan testing is very much time consuming (this might be one of the reason we don't see many fans roundup on SPCR).
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Luca

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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by MikeC » Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:10 pm

I stand guilty as accused. Slothful about fan testing I am.

It's been a couple of years since we've formally tested any fans. It is indeed time consuming, tedious, a royal PITA... and I admit that I think it's mostly an exercise in pleasing the audience, not a fundamentally useful exercise.

What I mean is that for PC silencing, the ONLY thing that matters in a fan is sound quality at various speeds. This I can get in about 3 minutes, hooking up the fan to a variable voltage source and holding it, placing it on the desk, while varying its speed.

Everything else is secondary. A fairly close second is reliability, a third is flexibility is positioning. CFM is just a silly distraction.

Yet, doing a full technical review of a single fan takes 1~2 hrs in the lab, maybe longer, and much longer than that to write, proof, shoot & image-edit, prepare for posting. And a single fan review is of no interest to anyone, so multiply by half a dozen.

And no fan makers ever want to throw any $$ our way. Not even a chance.

It`s not a particularly inviting task... tho I guess we`ll have to get to it sooner than later.
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ces
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by ces » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:55 pm

MikeC wrote:Since I was invited to comment on this new site....
Thanks for being so kind to respond.
MikeC wrote:You cannot even compare dB for fan A, B and C with his method, all you can conclude is that the higher dB fans may be louder than the lower dB ones. They will not parallel SPCR 1m dBA measurements in any linear way.
Just to make sure I understand. What you are saying is that his methodology might be able to separate the really loud fans from the really soft fans... but that is as far as it goes. The specific fan to fan ranking that he would come up with would not likely match that using the more sophisticated SPCR methodology. Is that correct?
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"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein

ces
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by ces » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:04 pm

MikeC wrote:I stand guilty as accused. Slothful about fan testing I am.
You still are the gold standard for fan testing. I don't think anyone minds waiting for the best.

And it may be a solution in search of a problem. As a practical matter, you aren't likely to find anything better than the Nexus. So maybe it isn't the most productive activity. No matter what I have experiments with, I always seem to return to Nexus or a slow slipstream.

Still its something a lot of us obsess on. And it is fun to see how good that next fan design is.
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"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein

ces
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by ces » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:06 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:TANSTAAFL.
Does anyone know what "TANSTAAFL" means?
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"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein

Tephras
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by Tephras » Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:37 pm


ces
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by ces » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:33 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:Again I insult you, but now not in a loud voice, just whispering like rustling leaves: whatever you think, you would not be able to perceive my insults.
See. Isn't that much better?
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"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein

quest_for_silence
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:10 am

ces wrote:
quest_for_silence wrote:Again I insult you, but now not in a loud voice, just whispering like rustling leaves: whatever you think, you would not be able to perceive my insults.
See. Isn't that much better?

Just a second best, I guess. :wink:

It would be closer (to the best) if I could not read anymore such your statements or assumptions.
While it would be the absolute best if, along with that, I also might definitely learn to be more gentle.

At anyway, I don't will to insult you, not even for the sake of a silly mental experiment, ces. :mrgreen:
Regards,
Luca

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quest_for_silence
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by quest_for_silence » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:21 am

ces wrote:What you are saying is that his methodology might be able to separate the really loud fans from the really soft fans... but that is as far as it goes. The specific fan to fan ranking that he would come up with would not likely match that using the more sophisticated SPCR methodology. Is that correct?

If I'm not wrong, MikeC used the verb "to may", and not the one "to be".

Therefore, again if I'm not wrong, the phrase: "the higher dB fans MAY BE louder than the lower dB ones" should mean something different from the one: "the higher dB fans IS louder than the lower dB ones.". So much so that "You cannot even compare dB for fan A, B and C with his method".

So, eventually, if I'm not wrong, that may be, or may not. :roll:
Regards,
Luca

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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by MikeC » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:30 am

It's not so much that our fan tests are so much more sophisticated -- though they are -- it's really because we listen carefully over the full range of fan speeds and report carefully what we hear. That 3 minutes I mentioned in my first post: it is the real gist of what makes our fan tests what they are.

I would take a careful subject report of fan noise over any objective measurements any day.

Good recordings make it possible to do this yourself... and those youtube video give you a chance to do this.
Mike Chin, SPCR Editor/Publisher
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ces
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by ces » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:40 am

MikeC wrote:That 3 minutes I mentioned in my first post: it is the real gist of what makes our fan tests what they are. I would take a careful subject report of fan noise over any objective measurements any day.
That is why I like your fan reviews... coupled with the fact that your subjective assessment incorporates a value system that is different from that of any other testing site I am aware of.

When xbits or some overclocking site does a fan review, even when they measure dB they just don't seem to understand what a "silencer" is looking for. That results, in my opinion, in a review useful more for perhaps an overclocker, than for a "silencer". Sort of like an ill fitting suit.

I personally would like to see SPCR explore the issue of static pressure in its varying applicable contexts: free air, case fan with the grill, case fan pushing into a filter (Filterright and/or DEMCI filters), case fan pulling through such filters, fan on a loose fined heatsink (like HR-01) and fan on a tight fined heatsink. I don't know how much difference there is amongst all these different applications. There is likely overlap and redundancy between these categories, but there must be a difference in performance and sound at the extremes of these categories. Or if you believe there isn't, it would be nice to hear you take a position on it after doing some testing.

By the way, the SPCR side comments about sample variance and motor noise and subjects like that... I find especially helpful. Actually the two pieces of most useful information I get out of your reviews are (a) your final recommendations taking into account all factors (incorporating a "silencer" value system), and (b) the starting voltage.
Last edited by ces on Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein

ces
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Re: Case Fan Comparison site

Post by ces » Fri Apr 01, 2011 9:47 am

I got a response from atreviewnet. When they test static pressure, it is done with the fan sucking air through the filter as opposed to pushing air out through the filter.


-----Original Message-----
From: atreviewnet at (a well known google email service)
Sent: Friday, April 1, 2011 9:55am
Subject: atreview.net

Thank you for your email

When you test your fans against the filter, for static pressure, are they
(a) pushing air into the filter, or
(b) are they they sucking air from the filter?

(b)sucking air from the filter
Air passes in order of the filter, the fan, and the airflow meter.
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"Aristotle calls man the rational animal. All my life I have been seeking evidence to confirm this" Bertrand Russell
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" Albert Einstein

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