Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Control: management of fans, temp/rpm monitoring via soft/hardware

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guermantes
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Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by guermantes » Mon May 09, 2011 4:00 am

Hi,

I am a bit fuzzled by this thing with varying fan speeds.
I am throwing out the R3 fans and replacing them with Slipstreams (CPU + front and exhaust).

I read very good things about the 800rpm version, but if I get that, will it always spin at 800rpm no matter what? (Asus Q-fan? R3 hardware fan controller?)

Any downsides to getting three slightly more expensive Slipstream PWM fans, and what do they spin at if I don't hook them to a fan controller or turn on Q-fan? (I can't seem to find this out by looking at the Scythe website).

Thanks a lot for any pointers.

/g

EDIT.
Just looked at the specs for the R3 fans I have and they do not seem to be PWM fans, yet they vary with q-fan control and hardware controller. Now I am really puzzled. If these are not PWM fans, then what functionality would a PWM fan provide and what would it be good for?

m0002a
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Re: Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by m0002a » Mon May 09, 2011 5:16 am

Asus Q-fan can be used to adjust the speed of a PVM fan, assuming you have it connected to a PVM fan header on the motherboard or a fan controller. For an 800 RPM fan, obviously 800 RPM will be the max speed, but can run slower.

If you don't hook them up to a PVM fan header or fan controller, or don't use Q-Fan, they will spin at 800 RPM.

mkk
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Re: Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by mkk » Mon May 09, 2011 5:26 am

Specifically, a regular 3-pin powered fan will run at full speed as long as it is supplied with 12V. Most motherboards can adjust the voltage somewhat for one or more fan connectors. Fan controllers like the one that comes with the Define cases have an adjustable resistor that lowers the voltage. I hear this specific fan controller goes down to 6V at its lowest, where a Slip Stream 800 model should rotate at roughly 550 RPM. That setting would generally be excellent for the front fan(s) for instance.

PWM technology has the advantage of enabling a single fan model to run at a wider range of speeds, though as always the exact range depends on whatever part is controlling the fan.

lodestar
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Re: Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by lodestar » Mon May 09, 2011 6:52 am

This motherboard has excellent BIOS fan controls. The CPU fan header is PWM, so if CPU Q-Fan control is enabled in the BIOS this will give a choice of Silent, Standard or Turbo fan profiles or a manual fan profile can be set. There is also Q-Fan control for the chassis fans (three pin fans attached to the CHA_FAN1 and CHA_FAN2 headers). Once enabled it gives again Silent, Standard or Turbo fan profiles but no manual profile (but alternatively the supplied Fan Xpert software could be used for that). Certainly if you use a Slip Stream PWM fan with the Silent profile you will get a low idle speed (typically 400-500 rpm) and this will increase automatically as the system comes under load (normally from gaming) to maybe reach around 1100/1200 rpm.

Another option is to use a chain of two (CPU+exhaust) or three (CPU+exhaust+intake) PWM fans using a PWM splitter cable like the Akasa AK-CB002. This has the advantage that all the fans on the chain are quiet at idle, but automatically increase in speed with system load - and then ramp down again when the load is removed. It can give a system that is much quieter at idle than with fixed speed fans, but will keep CPU and system temperatures within bounds under load. But as you have the fans already, maybe it would be worth trying the existing R3 fans in the motherboard chassis fan headers with BIOS Q-Fan control and see if the Silent profile is enough to make them worth keeping.

ffha
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Re: Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by ffha » Mon May 09, 2011 7:02 am

I have two Slipstream 800s and 1 Gentle Typhoon EDIT: 800 hooked up to the hardware fan controller of the Fractal R3.
It's a great combination and ideal for me, as I use SYSFAN1 (3-pin) for controlling my heatsink's pull-fan and SYSFAN2 (3-pin) for controlling my GELID Icy Vision.
Those are the only 3-pin fan headers my MSI P67A-C45 allows me to control by regulating the voltage supplied to them (by BIOS or Speedfan), so this setup is, basically, a perfect-fit.

I don't know how many 3-pin fan headers your motherboard can control by voltage regulation, but I honestly believe the investment in PWM fans + a PWM splitter is not worth the cost for your current setup, especially considering the fact that you too have an R3 fan controller.

lodestar
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Re: Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by lodestar » Mon May 09, 2011 8:28 am

guermantes wrote:Just looked at the specs for the R3 fans I have and they do not seem to be PWM fans, yet they vary with q-fan control and hardware controller. Now I am really puzzled. If these are not PWM fans, then what functionality would a PWM fan provide and what would it be good for?
Typically PWM fans have a wider rpm range than voltage controlled fans, in the case of the Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12LM-P from 200-1300 rpm. So idle speeds of 400-500 rpm and load speeds of 1100/1200 are easily obtainable, which may not be the case with 3 pin fans. PWM fans are essentially thermally controlled based on the temperature of the CPU and its cores. Chassis fan control will also use a temperature sensor somewhere on the motherboard. Both arrangements will take account of ambient temperatures and system air flow. If you are running Windows it might be useful to run the Unigine Heaven 2.5 DX11 benchmark, this will give a better idea of the CPU, graphics card and system temperatures that can be expected under gaming load and how the cooling arrangements are performing. Even with PWM fan chains increasing fan rpms to 1100/1200 it would be quite normal with this benchmark to see CPU temp increases of 15-20C and GPU temperatures rising by 30C+. If less demanding games are going to be played the load on the system may be somewhat less.

The other point to bear in mind with the R3 is that there is a filtered position to fit a 120/140mm intake fan at the bottom of the case. I think this is a location where the Fractal Design 140mm 600 rpm would be the obvious choice. It is very quiet, pushes about as much air as a 120mm running at 1000 rpm and would blow air in the direction of the GPU and CPU.

guermantes
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Re: Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by guermantes » Mon May 09, 2011 9:21 am

After moving fans around a bit (actually they are not all the same, but two are 1350rpm and one is 1000rpm), I noticed that Q-fan in Silent mode brings the 1350rpm fans down to around 1000, and the 1000rpm fan is brought down to around 700. I finally put the most silent fan as the exhaust thinking that would bring noise down in the most efficient manner for these fans (even though the lesser throughput of air might increase the temperature a few degrees) while I am waiting for the slipstreams.

One puzzling thing though:
CPU_FAN connector is 4-pin and does not respond to Q-fan
CHA_FAN1 connector is 4-pin and does respond to Q-fan
CHA_FAN2 connector is 3-pin and does respond to Q-fan
(all three fans have 3-pin connectors)

Where is the logic in that? Why does CPU_FAN not respond to Q-fan? Is this PWM-related, but if yes, should not CHA_FAN1 behave similarly)?

Same Q-fan response when switching 1350rpm / 1000rpm fans between CPU_FAN and CHA_FAN1 (which is the exhaust fan while CHA_FAN2 is the intake).

lodestar
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Re: Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by lodestar » Mon May 09, 2011 10:01 am

The CPU_FAN connector only works with Q-Fan if you use a 4 pin PWM fan. The 4 pin CHA_FAN1, despite the 4 pins, is not PWM as we know it. Rather than carrying a PWM control signal the fourth pin carries 5v; Asus are not the only manufacturer to feature this type of chassis fan header. For all practical purposes they are 3 pin.

You ought to try one of the 1350 rpm fans as the exhaust, and another in the bottom of the case position, leaving one 1000 rpm as intake. You can use the fan controller as well as Q-Fan - this should reduce their speeds further but some experimentation may be required. A (free) temperature monitoring utility like CPUID HWMonitor will track maximum temps if you start it first and then play a game, or run a benchmark.

guermantes
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Re: Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by guermantes » Mon May 09, 2011 10:49 am

Hi,
Thanks for your replies.

First, just so we are on the same page, my primary concern is with noise and getting rid of the "very-gentle-but-still-audible-alongside-low-volume-piano-sonatas-swoosh". It certainly does come from the fan-exhaust but may be augmented by the videocard run at minimum with Afterburner or from the Seasonic x650 (horrible thought, I bought it because I thought it was the quietest around).

I am switching to an 120 GB SSD these days as well and will only keep the 2TB WD Caviar Green for storage.

I used to have a 1350rpm on the exhaust, either with Q-fan@Silent (=1000rpm) but also with the Fractal fan controller@minimum. I get the impression that the faster fan brought more of a swoosh out of the case than now when the slow fan is on the exhaust. If I get you right you are suggesting higher speed at exhaust and slower at intake, which I have read elsewhere as well is optimal for temperature, but I don't see much of a difference temperature-wise. Maybe that's because it's already a bit hot inside my case (45-50 degrees in idle, 68 degrees in OCCT medium data set for 1 hour - that i7 950 seem to be a very hot kid in the Intel family).

Considering your explanation of the Sabertooth implementation of 4-pin connectors, I think I will get,
-a Slipstream PWM for the CPU and run it with Q-fan.
-two Slipstream 800 for the chassis front and back to run off the Fractal fan controller.

My hopes would be that my overall noise situation would be reduced compared to using the three Fractal fans I have now.
If it is indeed reduced, I could try adding the Fractal fans to see if I can cool things down without making it louder, but maybe that will not be possible. I was thinking 1350rpm@stock at bottom case intake and 1000rpm off the third Fractal controller@minimum as second intake. That is a lot of intakes though....

I am hesitant opening the top slots since I tried that once and there was a lot of noise escaping out of the top of the box.

Ouch, this was a lengthy text.
If you or anyone have any further comments on my fan setup, I 'd be very glad to hear/read them.

Thanks!
/g

EDIT: One last thought: my case sits on the floor under the desk with about 25cm headroom to the underside of the desk as well as to the back wall. There is quite a mess of cables in the vicinity of the exhaust. Maybe that adds to the exhaust turbulence noise?

m0002a
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Re: Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by m0002a » Mon May 09, 2011 1:14 pm

lodestar wrote:The CPU_FAN connector only works with Q-Fan if you use a 4 pin PWM fan. The 4 pin CHA_FAN1, despite the 4 pins, is not PWM as we know it. Rather than carrying a PWM control signal the fourth pin carries 5v; Asus are not the only manufacturer to feature this type of chassis fan header. For all practical purposes they are 3 pin.
You are correct about the CHA_FAN1 on the Asus Sabertooth X-58, but on the Sabertooth P67 CHA_FAN1 is a PWM header just like the CPU fan header.

justice99
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Re: Slipstream 800rpm and Slipstream PWM?

Post by justice99 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:40 am

Hello guyz,
i also have a Fractal R3, and i use a Scythe Kaze Q 3.5 to control the front and back fan.
They are always at minimum speed, and my computer temps are perfect, at load or idle.

I am planing to change them and i bought 2 Scythe Slip Stream 120 mm PWM SY1225SL12LM-P (200~1300 rpm).

I have a Mugen2 with this fan, and its a perfect fan, at idle, it run at 90RPM and i start to ear it at 600rpm.

I will receive them very soon and update my review.
I keep you up to date.

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