Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R5

Control: management of fans, temp/rpm monitoring via soft/hardware

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blake312
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Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R5

Post by blake312 » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:15 pm

Trying to find Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R5, I want quietist best tonality fans money can buy ( Money IS no object ), while providing the best airflow to my MSI GTX 970 Gaming, so I wont have to run the fans higher then 575 - 900 RPM.

the problem with fans I have now is Scythe Kotetsu's stock fan keeps clicking at LOW RPMs and the stock fans with Fractal Define R5 Rattle or make some noise at LOW RPMs that it's annouying. so I have decided to just replace them but I don't know What fans to get. I do know I need,

2 intake 1 Exhaust

and 1 fan for Scythe Kotetsu, I am not sure what sizes to get or what fans to get, I have looked at the charts but I am just not sure which fans have the best tonality or if I should run 120mm for the case fans or 140mm for the case fans. I know Mike ran this setup with http://www.silentpcreview.com/Quiet_ATX ... R5_Version but don't know why I am getting loud clicking noises from Scythe Kotetsu or rattle from R5 fans, but it doesn't matter anymore since I have decided to replace them so I was wandering what recommendations do you guys have for replacement fans for Fractal Define R5 and Scythe Kotetsu?

lodestar
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by lodestar » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:48 am

For a 120mm CPU cooler fan replacement I would recommend the Noctua NF-F12, run in PWM mode.

R5 case fans are something under active consideration as I am about to start an R5 build for a family member. So far I have tried the Thermalright TY-147A and the Noctua NF-A14 140mm PWM fans. The TY-147A will not fit as a front intake fan on the R5 without cutting it to size, and in my opinion does not have the bearing or build quality of the NF-A14. Used with the Asus BIOS Silent profile both fans ran at less than 400 rpm under idle conditions, effectively silent. I did notice that the NF-A14 seemed to be moving a lot more air than the Thermalright in this scenario.

Abula
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by Abula » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:34 am

What motherboard do you have?
How do you want to control the fans? Motherboard or The R5 Fan Controller or another fan controller? or preset undervolting?

blake312
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by blake312 » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:05 am

Abula wrote:What motherboard do you have?
How do you want to control the fans? Motherboard or The R5 Fan Controller or another fan controller? or preset undervolting?
I was gonna use my Motherboard, ASUS Maximus VIII Hero to control the fans. Unless I can get better performance using fan controller or preset undervolting ( I don't know what preset undervolting is ).

Abula
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by Abula » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:26 pm

blake312 wrote:I was gonna use my Motherboard, ASUS Maximus VIII Hero to control the fans. Unless I can get better performance using fan controller or preset undervolting ( I don't know what preset undervolting is ).
THanks for answering.

In your situation, i would swap the CPU fan for Scythe Gentle Typhoon, all the versions are 3pin, so you should enter your bios and change the Q-FAN of the CPU_FAN header from AUTO to ADVANCED to allow the fans to Voltage controlled instead of PWM. Worth mentioning these are real ball bearing fans, some people don't like the sound of the bearing, to me its ok, but really depends on each user. I'll leave you a couple of graphs of what should get with either,

Image

If you dont like ball bearings another good 120mm fan would be Noiseblocker M12-S1, i like more the tone of this fan, but im not sure the mounting clips of the kotetsu would grab on the rubber corners of the fan,

Image

I would swap the 3 case fans with Antec True Quiet 140, make sure your CHA_FANs on the bios are set to voltage controlled, you should get around 200rpm on idle with FanXpert,

Image

blake312
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by blake312 » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:10 am

I have decided to buy

1 X Noctua NF-F12 PWM
3 X Noctua NF-A14 PWM
1 X Noiseblocker m12-s1
3 X Antec True Quiet 140
1 X Phanteks PH-F140HP

and test them out to see which one wins, the losers get to stay in my closet never to be seen again.

Thanks lodestar and Abula for helping me :)

Abula
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by Abula » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:47 am

blake312 wrote:I have decided to buy

1 X Noctua NF-F12 PWM
3 X Noctua NF-A14 PWM
1 X Noiseblocker m12-s1
3 X Antec True Quiet 140
1 X Phanteks PH-F140HP

and test them out to see which one wins, the losers get to stay in my closet never to be seen again.

Thanks lodestar and Abula for helping me :)
If you can please share your experiences, you are using a lot of what usually gets recommended for the R5 and kotetsu, combinations that are what a lot user seek. Would be great to get some feedback into someone that compares all the fans you are buying.

Good luck and happy testing.

PS. On the Antec Tue Quiet 140, on the back side installation, it gets a little tough if you plan on using the rubber screws pulling with the cpu cooler, but its possible, when i helped a friend on R4 build with True Quiets, we installed the fan before we placed the mobo/cpu cooler.

And remember, all the fans i suggested are 3pin, thus the need to enter the bios and switch the headers from AUTO to ADVANCED, else you will get full 12V always.

plexman
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by plexman » Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:20 am

I'm also in same boat at the moment regards have the same setup and not being 100% with the noise of the fans at low rpms. My R5 case fans also have a slight tick / rattle low rpms which is not too bad but my kotetsu fan has a much more pronounced clicking noise.

I look forward to reading your experience with the various new fans.

CA_Steve
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by CA_Steve » Sun Jan 03, 2016 11:32 am

The same Glidestream fan used on the Kotetsu is on my Mugen 4 and it doesn't exhibit any clicking. Seems like there is a bit of manufacture variability.
PS. On the Antec Tue Quiet 140, on the back side installation, it gets a little tough if you plan on using the rubber screws pulling with the cpu cooler, but its possible, when i helped a friend on R4 build with True Quiets, we installed the fan before we placed the mobo/cpu cooler.
+1

lodestar
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by lodestar » Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:27 pm

plexman wrote:...my kotetsu fan has a much more pronounced clicking noise.
Are you running it in voltage mode or PWM mode?

plexman
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by plexman » Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:51 pm

lodestar wrote:
plexman wrote:...my kotetsu fan has a much more pronounced clicking noise.
Are you running it in voltage mode or PWM mode?
Running it in PWM mode. Would running it in voltage mode make a difference? I can't check for myself as I'm currently in the process or re build my system.

If it's not normal I may request a replacment fan from scythe/amazon.

lodestar
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by lodestar » Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:35 pm

As I understand it, it is PWM switching noise. One of the reasons why Noctua PWM fans are so often touted as potential replacements is that they use an IC that Noctua claim produces smoother torque impulses to reduce PWM switching noise and make the fan quieter at lower speeds. The only reviewer I could find that actually tested this confirmed that this was the case with the Noctua NF-F12. So Noctua fans are unlikely to click in PWM mode at low speeds. Scythe do not have any equivalent to this technology.

baii
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by baii » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:32 am

I don't know how close the slipstream resemble the glidestream, but the ss click in both type of control.

doyll
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by doyll » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:10 am

PWM clicking is often blamed on the fan because that is where the noise originates. But it can can be caused by PWM source (motherboard PWM design), PWM in fan, and even occasionally by power source (PSU).

Some "PWM clicking" has even been tracked to fan blade design reacting with vent grill, cooler, etc airflow characteristic incompatibilities.

And in even rarer cases to a cable 'clicking against the fan. I suspect there are more of these then we hear about. After all how many of use are willing to admit something like that. :D

But I will admit years ago to spending months trying to find and remove an intermittent hum from my stereo system .. only to finally figure out it was the fridge making the hum when it was cooling. Actual sound, not coming for stereo system at all. :oops:

nagi
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by nagi » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:17 pm

I recently bought a Scythe Fuma, which had two Slip Stream fans bundled. Their product code is almost that of the standalone: SY1225SL12M-CJP as opposed to SY1225SL12LM-P, and it has a grey colored fan. It also exhibited clicking, on DC and PWM as well. My older SY1225SL12LM-P fans I got for my Mugen 2.revB did not do this at all.

doyll
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by doyll » Sat Jan 09, 2016 5:38 pm

nagi wrote:I recently bought a Scythe Fuma, which had two Slip Stream fans bundled. Their product code is almost that of the standalone: SY1225SL12M-CJP as opposed to SY1225SL12LM-P, and it has a grey colored fan. It also exhibited clicking, on DC and PWM as well. My older SY1225SL12LM-P fans I got for my Mugen 2.revB did not do this at all.
Then not a PWM click .. unless your mobo is using PWM control on pin-2 instead of variable voltage. I've been told some motherboard headers are now pulsed 12v, not variable voltage.

lodestar
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by lodestar » Sun Jan 10, 2016 7:58 am

nagi wrote:...It also exhibited clicking, on DC and PWM as well. My older SY1225SL12LM-P fans I got for my Mugen 2.revB did not do this at all.
To establish that the motherboard power control is not the source it might be worth trying one of the powered PWM splitters such as this one. This takes only the PWM control signal from the motherboard CPU PWM header and DC power direct from the PSU. If the clicking still persists with one of these it is definitely the fan and nothing else.

Button_Mash
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by Button_Mash » Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:30 am

I was thinking about getting a Fractal Design Venturi HP-12 fan as replacement for the Kotetsu stock fan but when I took a closer look I noticed that the fan clips use the inner screw hole rather than the outer screw hole. The rubber corner mount of the Venturi fans has the channel for the screw completely enclosed so this type of clip will not work. I might contact Scythe support to see if they can suggest anything but I don't like my chances. It's possible that the clips from other Scythe coolers might work. Has anyone else tried this?

I will be sticking with the stock Glidestream for now. I have not seen any other easily attainable 120mm fans that look like they would provide a noticeable improvement. The Noctua NF-F12 seems to be frequently recommended but in the recordings I listened to, it started sounding annoying as soon as it ramped up. Maybe it is because I was listening to the iPPC version which is higher speed but I can't stand the beige/brown color scheme. :lol:

quest_for_silence
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 08, 2016 12:14 pm

Button_Mash wrote:I was thinking about getting a Fractal Design Venturi HP-12 fan as replacement for the Kotetsu stock fan but when I took a closer look I noticed that the fan clips use the inner screw hole rather than the outer screw hole. The rubber corner mount of the Venturi fans has the channel for the screw completely enclosed so this type of clip will not work.

I already mounted the HP12 on the Kotetsu, I'd say it's almost trivial (the metal clips firmly grip onto those soft rubber corners).

Button_Mash
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by Button_Mash » Mon Feb 08, 2016 4:54 pm

quest_for_silence wrote:I already mounted the HP12 on the Kotetsu, I'd say it's almost trivial (the metal clips firmly grip onto those soft rubber corners).
That's good to know. How is it performing? Is it a worthwhile upgrade from the stock Kotetsu fan?

quest_for_silence
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Re: Replacement fans for Scythe Kotetsu and Fractal Define R

Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Feb 08, 2016 8:37 pm

Button_Mash wrote:Is it a worthwhile upgrade from the stock Kotetsu fan?
It depends of your expectations.

Quality-wise it's a lot better (it's even better than my IPPCs, it's perhaps the best consumer-level 120mm aftermarket fan): with its praiseworthy, expensive Matsushita FDB Gen. 2 bearing it's probably a worthy successor of the venerable Scythe S-Flex.

Noise and performance-wise, no (though with different heatsinks the mileage may vary), particularly given the relevant price (twice the original Glidestream, which is slightly different from retail one, and which you can order from Scythe): in my experience the best fan for the Kotetsu is the original Slipstream PWM.

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