hi folks,
it's only a rumor right now, but a likely one. Apple is reportedlly releasing a new low-end macintosh based on the iMac configuratiopn, sans dsiplay, at the january 10th MacWorld expo. the unit will have a low end G4 CPU, 256MB RAM, DVDROM/CD-RW, a lower-end graphics card (ATI7500?), 10/100, USB 2.0, and firewire. it will drive any third party display or tv montior. power is from an external PSU similar to the PowerBooks; this fact and apple's most recent quiet designs probably means this box will have extremely quiet operation.
price is expected to run $499, but the rumored prices are often lower than the released prices (the "sub-$100 iPod" was last year's rumor; instead we got the $250 mini.)
source: http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=802 and others
as far as an analog to a wintel box, i'd guess this would be something like a 2.0-2.5 GHz PC with a 266 (533?) FSB and an ATI 7500. great for business, school, and "digital lifestyle hub" (itunes, iphoto, email, surfing) use, passible for graphic design and non-3d-gaming, and poor video editing and 3d games performance.
~slam
Apple's new SFF box: "Mac mini" is here!
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Apple's new SFF box: "Mac mini" is here!
Last edited by slam on Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mr_Smartepants
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Headless iMac and MacWorld Expo
yes, the macworld expo is next week, january 9th-14th or so. the new products are announced on tuesday during steve job's keynote.
i too have been comparing this concept to the PowerMac Cube G4. i thought the cube was an awesome idea and an awesome design, and suffered massively from a poor marketing strategy. insteading of the smaller, lighter, and less expandable machine being market as "mac light" at a lower price, it was "mac + cool style" and came in at a higher price. when that cool style had visual flaws ("cracks" or seams around the mold lines), the whole thing tanked, because who wants to pay more for a stylish but less expandable mac if it doesn't even look better? so it sank from general consciousness, but still has a cult following of cube lovers that continue to tinker and upgrade them.
(the cube sank so far, in fact, that almost every SFF page i read credits shuttle with the first modern SFF PC.)
i've often considered buying a used G5 LCD imac that had the dead screen, and just plugging in my own external LCD. this would give me a cheaper product with more options on display size, and would make a decent graphic design platform. it's the right size and shape for a transportable desktop system (now know as small form factor (SFF) of couse).
and of couse we now know that the SFF format is viable; after the cube sank, shuttle rose up and made a fortune of doing small form factor right: right specs, right price, right marketing, right level of expandibilty.
so while the specs on this will almost certainly be "cube II", the marketing is now "headless imac," and i think it will sell well. this will probably depend on the "revolutionary factor" of the design; as with the mp3 player market, where it was crowded but the ipod kicked ass, the "headless imac" has to have a design that makes shuttle say, why didn't we think of that?
~slam
i too have been comparing this concept to the PowerMac Cube G4. i thought the cube was an awesome idea and an awesome design, and suffered massively from a poor marketing strategy. insteading of the smaller, lighter, and less expandable machine being market as "mac light" at a lower price, it was "mac + cool style" and came in at a higher price. when that cool style had visual flaws ("cracks" or seams around the mold lines), the whole thing tanked, because who wants to pay more for a stylish but less expandable mac if it doesn't even look better? so it sank from general consciousness, but still has a cult following of cube lovers that continue to tinker and upgrade them.
(the cube sank so far, in fact, that almost every SFF page i read credits shuttle with the first modern SFF PC.)
i've often considered buying a used G5 LCD imac that had the dead screen, and just plugging in my own external LCD. this would give me a cheaper product with more options on display size, and would make a decent graphic design platform. it's the right size and shape for a transportable desktop system (now know as small form factor (SFF) of couse).
and of couse we now know that the SFF format is viable; after the cube sank, shuttle rose up and made a fortune of doing small form factor right: right specs, right price, right marketing, right level of expandibilty.
so while the specs on this will almost certainly be "cube II", the marketing is now "headless imac," and i think it will sell well. this will probably depend on the "revolutionary factor" of the design; as with the mp3 player market, where it was crowded but the ipod kicked ass, the "headless imac" has to have a design that makes shuttle say, why didn't we think of that?
~slam
well, i'm here in sunny (ha!) san francisco now, awaiting the macworld expo tomorrow. i'm keeping my fingers crossed that the rumors are true!
i've got the pocketcam handy and i'll post some pics if i can. i'll try to hear the noise levels, but the ambient at macwold is about the level of someone shouting in your ear from 1m distance, so i'm sure it will sound relatively quiet!
~slam
i've got the pocketcam handy and i'll post some pics if i can. i'll try to hear the noise levels, but the ambient at macwold is about the level of someone shouting in your ear from 1m distance, so i'm sure it will sound relatively quiet!
~slam
well, there it is!
it's real, and it's REALLY SMALL. we're talking 6.5" per side and about 2" tall. if you stacked about five of them on top of each other they'd be smaller than the apple G4 cube. a dozen of them might still be smaller than a shuttle XPC.
let me put this another way: this unit is so small, it would just about fit in a standard 5.25" drive bay in a standard PC case.
i can grab it in one hand and lift it up.
silence level: as i thought it is so freakin' loud here there's no way to hear the unit. however i can tell you what i've learned. the entire outside edge of the bottom plate of the unit is an intake vent. there is one fan (60mm?) and it vents out the rear of the unit. the PSU is external and passively cooled. i would bet this has near-silent operation.
www.apple.com will have the specs on the unit so i won't repost them here.
this is really, really cool. i'll lay money down that this will put apple in the news in a big way.
the entry level is a 1.25 GHz G4 PowerPC; i'd put that somewhere between a pentium 4 2.0 GHz and 2.5 GHz as an equivilent. no, this is not a power-house; but it's a decent home or office machine.
and yes, it's $499.
pics to follow.
~slam
it's real, and it's REALLY SMALL. we're talking 6.5" per side and about 2" tall. if you stacked about five of them on top of each other they'd be smaller than the apple G4 cube. a dozen of them might still be smaller than a shuttle XPC.
let me put this another way: this unit is so small, it would just about fit in a standard 5.25" drive bay in a standard PC case.
i can grab it in one hand and lift it up.
silence level: as i thought it is so freakin' loud here there's no way to hear the unit. however i can tell you what i've learned. the entire outside edge of the bottom plate of the unit is an intake vent. there is one fan (60mm?) and it vents out the rear of the unit. the PSU is external and passively cooled. i would bet this has near-silent operation.
www.apple.com will have the specs on the unit so i won't repost them here.
this is really, really cool. i'll lay money down that this will put apple in the news in a big way.
the entry level is a 1.25 GHz G4 PowerPC; i'd put that somewhere between a pentium 4 2.0 GHz and 2.5 GHz as an equivilent. no, this is not a power-house; but it's a decent home or office machine.
and yes, it's $499.
pics to follow.
~slam
and there it is!
http://apple.com/macmini/
I'm going to see it later today, without a doubt. It'll probably be tough to get a bead on noise levels from the show floor, but I should be able to feel heat off the back pretty easily, judging from the vents shown in the pictures.
As far as video editing performance goes, I can at least comment on my experience with my powerbook G4 from a few years back (May 2002). It has an 800 Mhz G4, and a gig of memory, and working within Final Cut Pro is totally pleasurable. I do have to wait for it to do final renders, but there's still a lot of realtime editing I can do. So, I just work until bedtime, and then let it render full-res stuff while I sleep.
Last year I got my girlfriend an ipod mini .. this year it might just be a mac mini. What a nice looking rig.
I'm going to see it later today, without a doubt. It'll probably be tough to get a bead on noise levels from the show floor, but I should be able to feel heat off the back pretty easily, judging from the vents shown in the pictures.
As far as video editing performance goes, I can at least comment on my experience with my powerbook G4 from a few years back (May 2002). It has an 800 Mhz G4, and a gig of memory, and working within Final Cut Pro is totally pleasurable. I do have to wait for it to do final renders, but there's still a lot of realtime editing I can do. So, I just work until bedtime, and then let it render full-res stuff while I sleep.
Last year I got my girlfriend an ipod mini .. this year it might just be a mac mini. What a nice looking rig.
the apple macmini display at the expo.
here's the unit itself. clean! the front has a slot-loaded optical drive (combo or super) and power.
that's the rear vent and all the ports on the rear of the unit. it did not feel hot to touch. two USB 2.0, Firewire 400, DVI (comes with vga adaptor). s-video out with included adaptor.
the external PSU. a little larger than a pack of cigs. UPDATE. this is actually the monitor's external PSU; the Mac mini does have an external PSU but it was not readily accessable at the expo. it appears to be a little longer and thinnner than the monitor PSU. it's shown in this quicktime movie: http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/m ... 5_480.html
the underside of the unit. the entire rim of the bottom plate is an intake vent.
other news: apparently there are NO USERS UPGRADABLE OPTIONS? even the RAM requires a tech to install. no video upgrade option; it'smore like a laptop that way. i'm thinking an average geek COULD crack this case and upgrade the hard drive, optical, and ram, but the average joe should not do so.
i'm headed back into the fray now...
~slam
Last edited by slam on Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
i was in here pretty quick! and i posted from the lobby with airport!
well i'm back on the machine and checking it out further for heat and noise. i put my hand on the rear vent and confirmed that it is NOT moving very much air at all. since the ambient is too high here for me to listen to the unit, i'll just conclude that it is pretty quiet based on the fact that the fan must be pretty slow to be moving so little air. the air is not hot, either.
i downloaded a temp sensing utility and found that the unit has only one sensor, and that's on the hard drive. it's listed as a toshiba mk8025gas, and has a temperature of 41C. that's 105.8F for us USA people using old, outdated measurement systems. :^)
the outer case, the "wrap" around all four sides, appears to be about 1/4" thick aluminum. very solid. the top and bottom are plastic. most of the bottom is one big rubber foot, making the mini very solidly placed on the tabeltop.
the top of the unit does not seem to get hot at all, it's very cool to the touch. the external PSU gets mildly warm.
let's put some load on the system...
i just ran a 3d racing game and the temp didn't go up at all. then again i'm only monitoring drive temp, not system temp.
still, this is one cool box!
~slam
well i'm back on the machine and checking it out further for heat and noise. i put my hand on the rear vent and confirmed that it is NOT moving very much air at all. since the ambient is too high here for me to listen to the unit, i'll just conclude that it is pretty quiet based on the fact that the fan must be pretty slow to be moving so little air. the air is not hot, either.
i downloaded a temp sensing utility and found that the unit has only one sensor, and that's on the hard drive. it's listed as a toshiba mk8025gas, and has a temperature of 41C. that's 105.8F for us USA people using old, outdated measurement systems. :^)
the outer case, the "wrap" around all four sides, appears to be about 1/4" thick aluminum. very solid. the top and bottom are plastic. most of the bottom is one big rubber foot, making the mini very solidly placed on the tabeltop.
the top of the unit does not seem to get hot at all, it's very cool to the touch. the external PSU gets mildly warm.
let's put some load on the system...
i just ran a 3d racing game and the temp didn't go up at all. then again i'm only monitoring drive temp, not system temp.
still, this is one cool box!
~slam
I'm curious about the external power supply...
I actually ordered one of these today (I think I was one of the first!), and spent some time looking at the spec page:
http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html
The odd thing is that they don't mention the power supply at all. Not that surprising, I guess, as they're trying to focus on it's small size. The Mini page at the store even lists "what's in the box", and only refers to a 'power cord'. On looking closer at the ports on the above-linked page, the power cord port appears to be more of a low-voltage doohickey as opposed to the typical three-prong 110-volt power cord...
Not that big a deal, just a typical marketing-driven 'stretching of the truth'.
Thanks for posting the pics, regardless!
Sincerely,
John
http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html
The odd thing is that they don't mention the power supply at all. Not that surprising, I guess, as they're trying to focus on it's small size. The Mini page at the store even lists "what's in the box", and only refers to a 'power cord'. On looking closer at the ports on the above-linked page, the power cord port appears to be more of a low-voltage doohickey as opposed to the typical three-prong 110-volt power cord...
Not that big a deal, just a typical marketing-driven 'stretching of the truth'.
Thanks for posting the pics, regardless!
Sincerely,
John
you're welcome for the pics.
re: PSU. strange that apple would not mention it. then again i could be completely blowing it here; as i left i overheard someone say that the external PSU was for the new Apple LCD display in the aluminum frame. i was a bad investigator here and didn't follow the power cords to see what it went to.
i also found out the drive is, to my surprise, a standard 3.5" PATA hard drive. i would have expected a 2.5" drive in there. apple appears to only offer a 40GB or 80GB drive, so dedicated file hogs would need to crack this puppy open and swap the drive.
i managed to get an apple tech to tell me that the case is opened by removing the big rubber pad from the bottom, and then using a "special tool" to open the case. they really really don't want users in there.
~slam
re: PSU. strange that apple would not mention it. then again i could be completely blowing it here; as i left i overheard someone say that the external PSU was for the new Apple LCD display in the aluminum frame. i was a bad investigator here and didn't follow the power cords to see what it went to.
i also found out the drive is, to my surprise, a standard 3.5" PATA hard drive. i would have expected a 2.5" drive in there. apple appears to only offer a 40GB or 80GB drive, so dedicated file hogs would need to crack this puppy open and swap the drive.
i managed to get an apple tech to tell me that the case is opened by removing the big rubber pad from the bottom, and then using a "special tool" to open the case. they really really don't want users in there.
~slam
Yet a Google for the drive, "toshiba mk8025gas" says that it is a 4200RPM 2.5" laptop drive. I guess we'll have to wait for some real-world MiniMac autopsies.slam wrote:you're welcome for the pics.
re: PSU. strange that apple would not mention it. then again i could be completely blowing it here; as i left i overheard someone say that the external PSU was for the new Apple LCD display in the aluminum frame. i was a bad investigator here and didn't follow the power cords to see what it went to.
i also found out the drive is, to my surprise, a standard 3.5" PATA hard drive. i would have expected a 2.5" drive in there. apple appears to only offer a 40GB or 80GB drive, so dedicated file hogs would need to crack this puppy open and swap the drive.
i managed to get an apple tech to tell me that the case is opened by removing the big rubber pad from the bottom, and then using a "special tool" to open the case. they really really don't want users in there.
~slam
Pete
thanks iclark, i found that quicktime movie too, and made changes to my post above, and included a link to the movie. the PSU doesn't seem that much larger than the display PSU. in the quicktime move the square one is the display PSU, and the longer thinner one is the mini PSU.jiclark wrote:yep, edu discount is only $20, but margins have got to be thin on this baby...
Also, I went back to Apple's site, and the QTVR of the thing shows an even bigger external PS, as well as the one that goes with the display...
Oh well!
margins thin? no way! the margin must be THICK on this little gem. the're just negative margins. this has to be a loss leader designed to get pc users to switch, and ipod and itunes sales up. :^)
~slam
nice catch mudboy! then the technician i was chatting with was wrong. i didn't think they could fit a 3.5" drive in there. here's an image of the mini with it's clothes off:mudboy wrote:
Yet a Google for the drive, "toshiba mk8025gas" says that it is a 4200RPM 2.5" laptop drive. I guess we'll have to wait for some real-world MiniMac autopsies.
Pete
~slam
It's funny how there are two of these same conversations going on in the same bulletin boards.
not quite the same, daba! we've mostly avoided platform wars over here. :^)daba wrote:It's funny how there are two of these same conversations going on in the same bulletin boards.
still, i threw my two cents worth into the fray on the other thread. thanks for the catch.
slam
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NeilBlanchard
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where's the fan?
Hello:
In that nudie picture, where is the fan? Is it a radial unit on the underside of the cover? And, is there a extra RAM slot?
In that nudie picture, where is the fan? Is it a radial unit on the underside of the cover? And, is there a extra RAM slot?
First mini mac porn : http://www.macnews.de/gallery/displayim ... =16&pos=18. ].
but no hint on the fan, CPU is MPC7447
There's also a video here, but I can't view it here (@work).
but no hint on the fan, CPU is MPC7447
There's also a video here, but I can't view it here (@work).
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NeilBlanchard
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if I had to guess -- there is *no* fan!
Hello:
Thanks for the movie link -- it shows that there is not a fan up under the top cover! The topmost bit of hardware in the Mac mini is the DVD drive. It would seem that the only air flow is by passive "siphon" driven by the heated air exiting the back and drawing in air around the rim of the bottom edges.
Nice...if I'm right?
Thanks for the movie link -- it shows that there is not a fan up under the top cover! The topmost bit of hardware in the Mac mini is the DVD drive. It would seem that the only air flow is by passive "siphon" driven by the heated air exiting the back and drawing in air around the rim of the bottom edges.
Nice...if I'm right?
Ugh, I can't believe I like it. It looks fantastic. But it's... mac?
As in, apple?
As in, the eMac bone white...thing...that sometimes works as a computer?
I love the looks, though. I don't like the ONE DDR slot, or that it writes CDRs at 24x. 24x! Or that you have to buy a HD... I need uber space, as in 250GB+. External, I suppose.
It looks so nice....
>>>
Yellow, Mac fans! Does anyone think it'll drop in price anytime soon?
<<<
As in, apple?
As in, the eMac bone white...thing...that sometimes works as a computer?
I love the looks, though. I don't like the ONE DDR slot, or that it writes CDRs at 24x. 24x! Or that you have to buy a HD... I need uber space, as in 250GB+. External, I suppose.
It looks so nice....
>>>
Yellow, Mac fans! Does anyone think it'll drop in price anytime soon?
<<<
Re: if I had to guess -- there is *no* fan!
probably not. all the reports i've had so far indicate one low-speed fan or blower. it's unlikely to have the right internal shape for passive airflow; the exit vent is to the rear.NeilBlanchard wrote:Hello:
That would seem that the only air flow is by passive "siphon" driven by the heated air exiting the back and drawing in air around the rim of the bottom edges.
Nice...if I'm right?