ATI AIW type video cards are lower power and not noisy?

They make noise, too.

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morkys
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ATI AIW type video cards are lower power and not noisy?

Post by morkys » Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:57 am

I am looking for an AGP card to use that will do the following for me:

1) Capture (including video capturing) so I can make DVD's of video camera tapes
2) Video editing. I guess this is the work of the CPU and software?
3) Play 3D games. Won't play lots but want to play on my front projector with friends a few times.
4) DVI output would be handy for future LCD monitor and/or upgraded LCD front projector
5) HTPC experimenting and curiosity (my HT is built with regular AV compents and it standalone and will likely stay that way)
6) All in one agp card without an add-on PCI capture-tuner type card, but I'll consider combining a non-AIW AGP video card with a separate capture-tuner card

Things that aren't super important to me:
a) TV output - If I output to anything, its going to be my front projector
b) Dual output - may be handy but right now its not, maybe in the future if I have a couple of LCD monitors
c) remote control

Since my Matrox G400 max won't work due to BIOS needs for winchester CPU, I'm looking at trying one of the following ATI AIW video cards in my K8N Neo2 Plat. I don't have lots of cash right now either:

Are any of the following cards super power consumers or otherwise noisy due to fan cooling?

Permanent solutions (saving up for one of these)
ATI AIW agp video cards (or non-AIW equivalent used with separate PCI capture-tuner card, haven't decided)
9800Pro-DVI but no dual-vga
9700Pro-DVI but no dual-vga
9600XT-dual but no DVI
9600
9600Pro
and these two cards too
Sapphire Radeon 9600XT - good inexpensive value [VIVO, DVI and dual output (no TV tuner or remote)) probably different software from ATI AIW 9600XT) ]
MSI NX6600GT-VTD128 GeForce 6600GT w/ DVI, VIVO - good value gives you faster 3D gaming than 9600XT but not as expensive as 9800 Pro

Temporary solutions
8500DV
9000 or 9200
7500 or 7200 for $30 CAD max as a temp solution.

Are any of these cards incompatable with the MSI Neo2 Platinum or a card that I should avoid for any reason? Comments on any other cards?

I don't play 3D games now, but I'd like to try the odd game for fun. If I can't play the best latest games at the highest quality, I've live with it. I'm more interested in video inputs and video editing. Which ATI AIW or other cards should I look at?

I am thinking of picking up an ATI Radeon AIW 7200 as a solution for now, or getting another frickin motherboard...lol.. I could pick up the Radeon AIW for $80 CAD or less. Whats it worth? What other cards should I consider?

thanx in advance for any advice

:)

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Post by Shining Arcanine » Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:00 pm

I have an ATI AIW 9700 Pro and AIW TV Wonder Pro (for MutiView). If you're planning on recording TV don't get one. The quality needs work.

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Post by Edward Ng » Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:08 pm

The 6600GT card isn't just cheaper than 9800 Pro, it's cooler running and faster than 9800XT, to boot. It's not a fair comparison as the technology is a full generation more advanced. The MSi card you selected is the one I bought, and as I mentioned in my other thread, the stock cooler sounds like an original Arctic Cooling VGA Silencer set for High, only smoother. While many people will probably find the sound to be acceptable, it is still not acceptable by SPCR standards--my recommendation is to get the MSi NX6600GT-VTD128 and then install an alternative cooler. I have met great success running my NX6600GT-VTD128 with an Aerocool VM-101.

Btw the HD output on it is great. :)

-Ed

morkys
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Post by morkys » Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:13 pm

Ok, so that MSI 6600GT card I mentioned is a good call? Faster than the 9800 Pro AND faster than the 9800XT? Wow! If I find one of those I could use it and get a separate TV tuner-capture card. I would like to get an external TV tuner-capture card but there aren't many that are great quality. My idea is to have things like second optical drives, capture card/tuners, analog modems etc external so they aren't powered when not needed.

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Post by cansan » Sun Jan 16, 2005 7:21 pm

Try HTPCNews for the tuner card.

morkys
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Post by morkys » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:33 am

Have you used the video input capabilities of the NX6600GT-VTD128 card? I notice it has no S-video so how is its comb filter?

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Post by Edward Ng » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:43 am

morkys wrote:Have you used the video input capabilities of the NX6600GT-VTD128 card? I notice it has no S-video so how is its comb filter?
It has both, Composite and S-Video in; just no component in.

Sorry, but I've not tested either of the inputs. :?

-Ed

morkys
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Post by morkys » Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:54 am

Oh. Really? All the stuff I've seen shows only composite input. Still looks like a handy card. Now I'm actually thinking a TV tuner would be cool to record tv shows to put on dvd's....lol...hmmmm...

How much power or current does the AGP 6600GT use? The PCIe 6600GT seems to be along the same lines as the ATI 9800 Pro.

thanx for the info

:)

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Post by Edward Ng » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:44 am

Another member pointed out a link just today about the 6600GT drawing 50watts, supposedly, but I've just searched for about 15 minutes and cannot find the link for the life of me. I found an older article that had power draw figures, but it didn't have the 6600GT. However, it did include the 6800, which is built on a larger process and has 4 more pipes, and even that card does not consume more than 41watts, so I'm highly doubtful that 6600GT consumes 50watts.

-Ed

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Post by pangit » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:56 pm

I have a 3 year old AIW 9000 Pro 64MB which has served me well, it is a great all round card but I probably wouldn't get another one. Why? Mainly because if I want to upgrade my gaming graphics I have to replace my TV tuner/capture facilities too. Buying them separately is about the same cost or cheaper.

Also, it does not do hardware MPEG encoding, so when you are capturing it uses about 90% of CPU power (on my XP 2400+).

The capture quality is good enough for me, but I'm not as fussy as some. And games performance is OK too - I can run Painkiller at a good frame rate at reasonable detail, and even Need For Speed: Underground fine. Haven't tried Doom 3 or HL2 yet, as I suspect it won't be worth it!

BTW, I have replaced the HS on it to run passively, so it is competely silent.

I guess you could pick up the 9000 Pro for around $80 CAD, and it would do for a while but I think you would outgrow it pretty quickly.

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Post by morkys » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:02 pm

I think for now I'll get whatever I can afford, which may be a lower end used card, or a Sapphire 9600XT with VIVO.

In my thread in power supplies I guess we're getting into things there about video. The MSI NX6600GT VTD128 looks good.

Here are the good things I see with this AGP card:

1) Very Fast. Faster or comparable to the best of the midrange cards like 9700 and 9800 Pro and XT.
2) DVI output and DVI to VGA adapter.
3) Multiple monitors. Does this equal DUAL-MONITORS like Matrox's DualHead?
4) VIVO. Has composite IN and S-video input. Works with MSI TV tuner capture deally.
5) Not too power hungry. Guessing about 18 watts idle and 50 watts 3D game max. Apparantly with "cool bits" you can reduce the clock for non-3D games so during regular 2D applications you use even fewer watts.
6) A few dollars cheaper than ATI 9800 Pro.
7) Hardware-accelerated MPEG and WMV9 decode delivers smooth, artifact-free video (from MSI website..snicker chuckle...). Not all cards do this? Does ATI AIW 9600XT do MPEG decoder via hardware acceleration on the card?

Only "drawback" of this card is compared to AIW cards, there is no TV tuner and no remote unless you get the separate TV tuner capture deally. Oh and there is another drawback, its more expensive overall than for instance, the ATI AIW 9600XT.

So anybody use this AGP card?
Last edited by morkys on Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Edward Ng » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:08 pm

I do.

The decoding features they indicate are functional in all 6600GT-based cards. These features make up a substantial part of the 6X00 series GPU's additional transistor count over ATI's rival chips. 6800 series' video processor, unfortunately (6800GT and Ultra for sure, at least; not entirely sure about 6800) isn't 100% fully functional like 6600GT's, though. I believe standard 6600's video processor functions are fine, just like 6600GT's.

-Ed

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Post by Tyrdium » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:11 pm

Edward Ng wrote:Another member pointed out a link just today about the 6600GT drawing 50watts, supposedly, but I've just searched for about 15 minutes and cannot find the link for the life of me.
Here ya go. :D

Edit: Oh, and IIRC, the difference is that the 6800 series has a broken WMV9 decoder.

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Post by morkys » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:14 pm

Thanx. We know that link, at least I do. Thats the PCIe 6600GT though, and I'm curious about the AGP card :)

If SometimesWarrior or Edward Ng can try the video inputs for capturing I'd love to hear about how they work. Also wonder about the mpeg decoding hardware acceleration. And lastly it would be cool, heheh, to know how much power the "cool bits" underclocking for 2D saves.

thanx all,

:)
Last edited by morkys on Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tyrdium » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:15 pm

Ah, I see. I'd guess it's about equal, maybe a couple watts higher for the AGP version.

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Post by Edward Ng » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:18 pm

That's really bizarre. If this is correct, a VM-101 should be able to handle 6800 just fine, since it consumes a smaller amount of power; in fact, considering the 13nm 6800 is less leaky, it should be easier to deal with than even 6600GT...

Very interesting.

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Post by morkys » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:39 pm

Does anyone have any advice on capture cards/tv tuners? I am pretty sure I'm going to stick with my ATI Rage 3D card for now, maybe swap in my Matrox G400 max if MSI fixes their BIOS, and/or grab a 9800 Pro or MSI NX6600GT. Either way, I was tempted to grab a 9600XT AIW on sale at footure shap, but no DVI and concerns about banding have me pausing. What capture card/tv tuner options do you all suggest? Thanx :)

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Post by Sizzle » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:17 pm

I have a Sapphire Atlantis 9600 256mb version. I don't game, but the card has DVI and is passive, so it's good enough for me. For TV I have a Sapphire Theatrix 550 on the way which is ATI's new Theatre 550 Pro video processor. Big things are expected from this chip. ATI's TV Wonder Elite is their offering based on this, it's almost twice as much as the Theatrix for the same product.

If you jump over to www.htpcnews.com or www.avsforum.com and do some reading, Hauppauge PVR line of cards are the most popular cards for PVR.

Stay away from the new NVTV cards, everything I have read about them has been negative.

Your traditional ATI cards like the TV Wonder and the AIW's are software based for encoding so they use CPU time. The 550 cards, E-Home Wonder (for MCE), and HD Wonder are all hardware based for encoding, which is better.

I mentioned what I use above, for my wife's PC we have a AIW 7500 that is passively cooled with a TV Wonder Pro for MultiView. Her pc is used for web, tv, and sometimes DVD in our bedroom and it works fine for all of that.

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Post by morkys » Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:27 pm

Interesting to see how the Sapphire Theatrix 550 works. Wonder if it'll eliminate the banding problem people had with the Theatre 200 chip.

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Post by morkys » Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:48 pm

So let me get this straight.

ATI AIW and TV wonders use software for MPEG encoding? Products like Happauqe PVR 250 etc use a hardware MPEG encoder and things like Flyvideo 2000 and MSI TV @anywhere do software encoding? Do they do MPEG encoding via software and use the CPU? I guess I'd prefer something that could also do lossy-less raw recording if it used software. If it used software to do MPEG encoding then may as-well get a hardware one to get the benefits of smoother use.

Which products do lossy-less raw recording anyhow?

Really, I need to know:

1) Which do software encoding? I assume AIW's and TV wonders and other capture cards like the MSI TV@nywhere and Flyvideo2000?

2) Which do hardware encoding? The Happauqe PVR 250 and USB obviously but are there others?

3) Which ones do lossy-less raw encoding and what format does that record as? Regular capture cards are capable of this? It takes CPU power? Do I need it?

4) 3D comb filter for TV tuner and composite?

5) Benefits and/or drawbacks of USB vs PCI? I like the USB because its portable and doesn't take up space/power in my PC.

Ideas about which to use? I mostly need to convert video camera tapes to dvd and record the odd tv program.

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Post by morkys » Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:58 pm

Actually found out there isn't much of a banding problem with the theatre 200 chip. Someone had a switcher that caused a problem.

If any tries the Sapphire Theatrix 550 or ATI 550 capture/tv tuner please let us know how it goes :)

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Post by Pauli » Sun Jan 23, 2005 9:55 am

morkys wrote:Actually found out there isn't much of a banding problem with the theatre 200 chip. Someone had a switcher that caused a problem.

If any tries the Sapphire Theatrix 550 or ATI 550 capture/tv tuner please let us know how it goes :)
Heh, that knucklehead spent months pulling his hair out, endlessly testing various video cards, and ranted on and on about this "problem" that ATI won't fix across several internet messageboards. Only after all of this testing did he decide to plug his video source directly into the ATI card (pretty novel idea, huh?). Sheesh.

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Post by morkys » Sun Jan 23, 2005 11:55 am

Poor guy! Doh. First rule of trouble shooting. Eliminate variables....oh well. All's well that ends well. :)

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Post by morkys » Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:00 pm

I've narrowed my video card choice down to a used 9700 Pro. I may not even play 3D games on a regular basis, but I want to be able to play a few for fun to see. Plus I want DVI and VGA output.

Does anyone know if I can underclock the 9700 Pro using "riva-tuner" or whatever its called, to make this card use less power, create less heat while surfing etc ?

thanx

:)

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Post by morkys » Thu Feb 03, 2005 2:50 pm

Was hoping for confirmation about the ability to underclock the ATI 9700 Pro. I've heard you can underclock the 9800 Pro, but I'm hoping there's a program that allows you to underclock the 9700 Pro to a similar degree.

Its all about saving every scrap of electricity I can while still having the PC capacity for when I need it.

thanx for any feedback

:)

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Post by morkys » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:52 am

A year later...

Has anybody with an NSI NX6600 ever used the VIVO for capturing video and if so, how did it compare to a happauge PVR250/150 for instance? What software did you use? Have you paired a TV tuner with the NX6600?

:)

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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:03 pm

um ok. the theater 200 chip is regarded by any and every site to be by leaps and bounds a clearer and more vibrant picture than any other tuner in an analog situation.

hdtv they kinda are similar and it matters less.


the 550 has one extra filtering on it, besides that, for analog there is little difference. some video buffs like the 200 better and so that is one reason the all in wonder has 200 vs 550 still. (cheaper, tried and true and sometimes more enjoyed).

I have been buying them for years.... on one now!

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Post by Bill Dunsmore » Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:30 pm

I have a different video card that is equipped with VIVO and I just use an old VCR as a tuner, connected to the Composite Input of the video card. TV looks great! A cheap way to go, especially if you have a surplus VCR.

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Post by morkys » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:13 pm

I am getting an MSI NX6600GT VTD128 for HTPC trouble-shooting duties and I just wondered if it was possible to record video with the VIVO as well as the happauge PVR250. The Happauge is sort of industry standard, I guess along with the theatrix stuff.

Anyhow, just wondering how folks are doing with their AGP MSI NX6600 GT VTD 128's :)

P.S. I suppose for HDTV tuner I need separate anyways, and there is no component in, so a PCI or USB 2.0 HDTV tuner would be necessary, although not that I need it now.

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Post by dddibley » Thu Jan 19, 2006 9:32 pm

morkys wrote:A year later...
LOL.. you're getting closer morkys.

I have the ATI VIVO and PVR-250. VIVO is good for short clips.. the PVR for movies and programs. Both are hooked up to a digital tuner via composite and svideo (interchangable). Don't use the PVR tuner at all.

Ends up the PVR gets more action though.. only because of it's hardware MPEG2 captures and third party support. Encoding AVIs to DVD is very time consuming.. and once it's on DVD, the output is about the same.

VirtualDub, HuffYUV, VideoReDo, TMPGEnc DVD Author and NERO round out the software suite. Been playing with Pinnacle Studio lately for VHS captures too.

ddd

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