DFI NF4 Motherboards

soujir0u · Post by **soujir0u** » Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:44 am

I'm contemplating on getting one of the DFI NForce4 boards, probably the Ultra non-SLI one. But the motherboard chipset sits really close to the video card connectors and doesn't look like it will fit a Zalman heatsink (without some mutilation).

Anyone know if the maglev fans they're using will be any quiet? Although based on experience all fans that small are horrible...

macman · Post by **macman** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 4:48 am

I have ordered this board and have the same concerns. I will wait and see what the noise of the nForce cooler is. I am contemplating hacking into a zalman northbridge heatsink if the noise is bad.

Slaugh · Post by **Slaugh** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:12 am

There's another thread about the NF4 chipset fan... It's supposed to be very noisy (and up to 8000RPM).

fyfe wrote:I got my board this morning and I have to say the chipset fan is louder than the standard cpu fan, the 2 120mm fans that came with my thermaltake tsunami and the fan on my 6800GT put together.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:37 am

I know that the Asus fan is loud, if the MSI and DFI chipset fans are also loud then you're stuck with the Gigabyte SLI motherboard which uses no fan

(but only has one pci-e 1x slot between the 16x slots, i.e. no 3rd party zalman/ac cooler for you

)

ronrem · Post by **ronrem** » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:33 pm

It does appear Chaintech will have a passive chipset on an Ultra,though the overclockers will whine. Which NF4 mobo will best handle the Zalmanizing is something a lot of us will be wondering as the Winchester chips and NF4's are potentially power computing-yet as quiet as some low power or underclock rigs

madman2003 · Post by **madman2003** » Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:23 am

Only the GA-K8N Ultra series(both normal and sli)(can't be bought yet as far as i know) from gigabyte has a chipset heatsink. The boards that are now available have small fans too.

Madman2003.

soujir0u · Post by **soujir0u** » Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:52 am

I was looking for the Chaintech motherboard but looks like no one sells it here.

I've actually ordered a DFI motherboard, we'll see how it goes. In the worst case scenario I'll have to have to hack up a Zalman heatsink or get one of those low-profile "ViperSinks" linked to somewhere in this forum. Probably need a fan on a bracket to blow on it too.

The Asus A8N-SLI motherboard does fit a Zalman heatsink though it gets a bit hot.

macman · Post by **macman** » Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:51 pm

I have my Ultra board now and am putting together my system - still waiting for drives.

So far, the chipset fan is really quiet. I'm just playing around in the BIOS and not stressing the system, so time will tell whether it is loud under load. At restart it does rev up to full speed and that would be noticeable, I think.

I have hacked a Zalman heatsink to fit, if necessary. The end of my graphics card will fit down between the heatsink fins. I took two fins off to accomodate some caps on the end of the graphics card. It is all very tight. I'll probably wait for the board to pass through early mortality before I attempt that change, though.

Zalman's testing (on the Asus, I think) shows a 16 degree increase over the chipset fan cooler. That may not be too good.

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:50 am

Macman which 16x slot are you putting the GFX card in the left or the right?

How did you hack the Zalmans fins?

If possible post some pics

macman · Post by **macman** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:38 am

v3n wrote:Macman which 16x slot are you putting the GFX card in the left or the right?

How did you hack the Zalmans fins?

If possible post some pics

I've been doing a lot of testing and discovering a few things.

Firstly, I have a 6600GT Gigabyte passively cooled graphics card in the right slot - the one closest to the CPU. This is the x16 slot. If you put it in the left slot, you get x2 PCIe. I've actually tested it in both slots and did a 3dMark05 run.

x16 slot - 3299
x2 slot - 2710

So operating in the x2 slot is not that bad. It beats my GeForce FX5700 in my current (loud) system. I guess you can make the two slots both x8 to improve the performance of the left slot, but I did not try this. If you want to go passive with a Zalman, and you don't want to mangle it, you can probably use the left slot - My card clears the Zalman in that slot.

The chipset fan is pretty quiet below 3500 - 4000 RPM, but I found it also to be relatively ineffective. The NF4 chipset would run at 47 degrees C. Cranking the fan up to full speed, around 7000 RPM, it would cool the chip down to 43 degrees. but it is loud and annoying at this speed. Also at some speeds, the fan buzzes very loudly.

I decided, therefore, to go ahead with modifying the Zalman. My initial work was to remove some pins. I just used a needle-nosed pliers and twisted back and forth until it came away. I also used the pliers, closed, to splay the fins for the end of the graphics card.

Here is the initial modified Zalman
http://www.codefeed.com/images/system/d ... 010038.JPG

This pic shows the clearance between the graphics card and the chipset with the chipset fan removed
http://www.codefeed.com/images/system/d ... 010052.JPG

My initial thoughts were to put the card edge between the first set of fins in the zalman, but this is not great because the heastsink would not have been centred over the chip. Here is a shot during "fitting".
http://www.codefeed.com/images/system/d ... 010056.JPG

So, I ended up with the graphics card between the second set of fins. Here is the Zalman modded and fitted to the board. Overall I removed 5 fins and chopped off the tops of two. You can see them on the table at the back. This picture also shows the clearance from the x2 PCIe slot if you go that route.
http://www.codefeed.com/images/system/d ... 010063.JPG

It may be possible to bend more and break less fins if you get it right up front.

Here is the modified zalman with the card installed. It is all very tight.
http://www.codefeed.com/images/system/d ... 010062.JPG

Finally, here it is in a running system. Clearance to my temporary IDE drive in my suspended setup from the heatsink is not great.
http://www.codefeed.com/images/system/d ... 010066.JPG

Overall, my chipset temperatures improved - down to 41/43 when running Prime95. Not a lot, but I was expecting a slight deterioration so that was nice. Obviously you will need a front fan for this as airflow to the heatsink will be critical. I have a Nexus up front and that seems fine but I might go for a Panaflo L1A as they seem to start better when using the board fan headers.

I'm really hanging out for my SATA drives to come so I can finalize this system and get better airflow in this area.

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:43 am

Superb post macman

Thats great news that it fits in the other slot with no modding needed.

I have 2 pci cards which i want to use so i'll be modding the ZM-NB47J like you.

I just hope the VF700-ALCU GFX cooler doenst cause any trouble on a 6800 GT

macman · Post by **macman** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 3:48 am

v3n wrote: I just hope the VF700-ALCU GFX cooler doenst cause any trouble on a 6800 GT

I should point out that, obviously, the extent of the modding required to the Zalman will depend on the length of your video card and what components it has near the end of the board. For some it may not be possible, at all. YMMV.

I've run my system in my case (Antec SLK3000B) so far with no side panels on, so I still need to run some extensive tests with the case all closed up, etc.

velvet45 · Post by **velvet45** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:21 am

Macman,
you are the man! I have the Nf4-Ultra D and a Zalman NB 47-J with the intention of trying what you have already accomplished. You are the first I have seen that seems to have been successful.

I have not bought a video card yet but am concerned about what to try. I would like to try a passive or actively cooled plain 6800 (already have Zalman VF-700) but need to figure out if I can modify the NB 47-J in the right hand slot to clear it.

I have hope that your system will be as stable as stock under load as this chipset seems to run hot without good cooling. The great thing is in your comparison the NB 47-J is as effective (or better) as the stock maglev fan- correct? If you tested both the factory cooler and the NB 47-J under same conditions -with the sides off, it should be as stable with sides on.

Please let us know how it primes and under full load with sides on and decent overall cooling. I have the Silverstone TJ06 so I will have a 120 intake fan running towards the mobo but will have to probably run without the duct with the XP-120.

ilh · Post by **ilh** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:32 pm

Macman, I see you tried the 2x PCIe slot. Did you happen to try moving the SLI jumpers to see if you could get 8x in that slot? My reading indicates that there is very little difference between 8x and 16x on current cards, and if we could use the bottom slot at 8x that would be a great solution.

I would hope that the jumpers switching 16x+2x to 8x+8x don't require real SLI mode to be active, but who knows without trying it.

I've got a DFI Ultra-D to start putting together soon once I get more parts.

--Lee

Michael_qrt · Post by **Michael_qrt** » Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:44 pm

Great info macman!

I'd also like to know about the possibility of running the two slots at x8 speed, as using the lower slot seems like the best option for me.

If not then that raises some another question for me. If I was using an arctic cooling silencer on a 6600GT it would seem that the cooler would badly block the chipset heatsink, how much of the heatsink is overhung by the video card? it looks like it may be about half from your pictures.

soujir0u · Post by **soujir0u** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:43 am

Very cool! I have the same video card as well (Gigabyte passive 6600GT).

So if you use the bottom video card slot, it clears the Zalman heatsink without modding it?

macman · Post by **macman** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:21 am

ilh wrote:Macman, I see you tried the 2x PCIe slot. Did you happen to try moving the SLI jumpers to see if you could get 8x in that slot? My reading indicates that there is very little difference between 8x and 16x on current cards, and if we could use the bottom slot at 8x that would be a great solution.

I would hope that the jumpers switching 16x+2x to 8x+8x don't require real SLI mode to be active, but who knows without trying it.

I've got a DFI Ultra-D to start putting together soon once I get more parts.

--Lee

Well I hadn't tried it until just now. It does indeed work with the current drivers I have (67.66). So, putting the jumpers in SLI mode and running a single card in the second slot gives you two x8 slots which work no probs. 3DMark05 score was 3227 so pretty close to the 3299 of the x16 mode (over 97%)

Whether this continues to work in later drivers, I can't say but I would hope so.

To see the clearance in the second slot, I took this shot
http://www.codefeed.com/images/system/d ... 010074.jpg

As you can see, there is reasonable clearance to the card from the zalman. There is less clearance to the passive heatsink on the back of the card but it's good enough.

This arrangement would also make the x4 slot viable for me. When using the first graphics slot the x4 slot would certainly be obstructed by the heatsink on the back of the video card.

ilh · Post by **ilh** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:21 am

Thanks!

It would be stupid if nVidia decided to disable this feature. This isn't an attempt to do SLI with an Ultra (non-SLI) chipset, just wanting more flexible lane allocations.

--Lee

Smoken Joe · Post by **Smoken Joe** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:02 am

Hey nice to see other sith the board. You can just place a fan blowing on the chiset fan I have one of the nexus like 120 yate looms works perfet even with the heatsink off or very low when overclocking.

Get good memory with this board or it will bite you though this is true of most of the new nforce boards.

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:24 pm

Smoken Joe wrote: Get good memory with this board or it will bite you though this is true of most of the new nforce boards.

Ive ordered OCZ VX from OCUK to run 1T-2-2-2 at 250 mhz

Most likely to run it around 3.2-3.5 volts which could get toasty

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:20 pm

Hello:

v3n wrote:Ive ordered OCZ VX from OCUK to run 1T-2-2-2 at 250 mhz

Most likely to run it around 3.2-3.5 volts which could get toasty

Are you sure about that RAM voltage? I have not heard of anything above 2.8-2.9 volts! Over 3 volts seems a little far fetched to me...though I could be wrong...

Michael_qrt · Post by **Michael_qrt** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:31 pm

NeilBlanchard wrote:Hello:

v3n wrote:Ive ordered OCZ VX from OCUK to run 1T-2-2-2 at 250 mhz

Most likely to run it around 3.2-3.5 volts which could get toasty
Are you sure about that RAM voltage? I have not heard of anything above 2.8-2.9 volts! Over 3 volts seems a little far fetched to me...though I could be wrong...

The DFI NF4 boards can regulate the ram voltage from either the 3.3V or 5V rails. There is actually the option of running the ram voltage all the way up to an insane 4V. It's an overclocking board all right.

Smoken Joe · Post by **Smoken Joe** » Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:09 pm

I now wish I got the VX yes the DFI board has the most options that I have seen on any board. Did you see the new opterons out 90nm 2.6 and see3 should not be too long before the 939s get this. I might upgrade when they come out.

madman2003 · Post by **madman2003** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:00 am

NeilBlanchard wrote:Hello:

v3n wrote:Ive ordered OCZ VX from OCUK to run 1T-2-2-2 at 250 mhz

Most likely to run it around 3.2-3.5 volts which could get toasty
Are you sure about that RAM voltage? I have not heard of anything above 2.8-2.9 volts! Over 3 volts seems a little far fetched to me...though I could be wrong...

OCZ VX is garuanteed not to blow up, up to 3,5 V +/- 5%. They some kind of winbond chips generally referred to as UTT IIRC. I'm not sure if the chips are a strange form of CH-5 or something else.(winbond will be making BH-5 and DH-5 too in the future IIRC) If you remember anything of the BH-5 times, then you would know they like a lot of juice.

velvet45 · Post by **velvet45** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:15 am

V3n,
That OCZ VX will handle 3.5V just fine -VX stands for voltage extreme. How do you plan to get to 3.5Vdimm? I heard the BIOS only allows to 3.2V on 3.3 rail. Using a jumper you can reset the board to volt from the 5V Mosfets. If you do this this will unlock the Bios and allow up to 4V. However, you must provide additional cooling to the mosfets as they will run hotter than normal. Also be sure that your PSU is compatible with running on the 5V rail. I think OCZ powerstream is OK. Another option is to adjust the pots on PSU to overvolt the 3.3 rail. I am not sure if you do this how the bios is set up.

Macman,
terrific job man. We are all indebted to you. Can you let us know how stable your setup is with the sides on under load and temps on chipset? Also, any advice on whether you think a longer card like the 6800 or X800 series might work with either of these slots and the Zalman NB cooler would be appreciated.

macman · Post by **macman** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:50 am

velvet45 wrote:V3n,
Macman,
terrific job man. We are all indebted to you. Can you let us know how stable your setup is with the sides on under load and temps on chipset? Also, any advice on whether you think a longer card like the 6800 or X800 series might work with either of these slots and the Zalman NB cooler would be appreciated.

Ran Prime95 for over 9 hours today with case sides on. It was pretty hot here - up to 33C ambient. Chipset got to 51/52 - no errors. Seems pretty stable. My Pentium 4 1.8 shuttle system reached 76C.

From what I can tell, all of the 6800 based cards I looked at are a fair bit longer than my 6600 so that would make things that much harder. In the x16 slot, you're going to have to hack more of the heatsink away and probably run into many more components on the graphics cards. Once you break the heatsink fins off, you get to raw, conductive aluminium, so have to ensure good clearance.

In the other slot, the chipset heatsink should not be a problem, unless it is long and has cooling components on the rear. IOW, if my passive 6600GT was just a bit longer, the rear heatsink would hit the chipset zalman.

I would have a problem in the lower slot in my case as a longer card would probably interfere with my suspended drive setup. Not sure if that would be an issue for you.

velvet45 · Post by **velvet45** » Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:58 am

Macman wrote:

I would have a problem in the lower slot in my case as a longer card would probably interfere with my suspended drive setup. Not sure if that would be an issue for you.

A longer card wont be a problem in my case (Silverstone TJ06) as the motherboard is inverted and PCI slots at the top of the case. Hmm, sounds like I should go with the lower PCIE4 slot with the longer card. Dont like the sound of having to cut more fins than you did- might reduce cooling ability too far. Anyway, what I lose at x8 in 3Dmark with the longer card I will gain back with the faster 6800/X800 (hopefully).

Glad to hear that you are stable. You said that the Chipset reached 51-52C but with an ambient of 33C that seems perfectly reasonable. I doubt the stock cooler would work any better in that kind of heat.

Incidently Macman, how is that VX working out for you? Are you running off the alternate jumper (5V) setting for Vdimm?

macman · Post by **macman** » Wed Feb 16, 2005 3:09 am

velvet45 wrote: Glad to hear that you are stable. You said that the Chipset reached 51-52C but with an ambient of 33C that seems perfectly reasonable. I doubt the stock cooler would work any better in that kind of heat.

Incidently Macman, how is that VX working out for you? Are you running off the alternate jumper (5V) setting for Vdimm?

Today I ran prime with a Nexus 80mm fan just sitting on top of my drive pointing to the chipset. I had no front case fan.Chipset temps were really reduced by this to about 40C - ambient is a little lower today but not much. It's somewhat ironic to remove the chipset fan and then put in another fan

but this approach is much quieter and more effective, I think. It also gives good air to the passive cooling on the 6600GT. I'm going to rethink my drive suspension strategy a little, perhaps

To date, I'm not a big overclocker. I'm interested in what can be done and reason that a good overclocking board will be really stable at stock speeds, even if I can't get it to overclock.

Tonight, however, I played around with the settings to see what I could do. Overall I can't get it to do much unless I decouple the FSB and RAM speeds. I have the RAM at 3.2V - I'm not using the Vdimm jumper. At 200 MHz, RAM is timed as 2-2-2-8. With that it seems I can drive the CPU/FSB up a fair bit - i.e. ratio keeps RAM around 200. RAM is cool at 3.2V. I could not get stability yet when going much above 200 MHz on the RAM even as I relax the timings.

So overall, VX RAM hasn't given me trouble, can be pushed to 2-2-2-8 at 3.2V/200 MHz, not sure if it can go much further, but I'm not overly experienced at tweaking.

v3n · Post by **v3n** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:01 am

Installed the DFI system last night and there is no way the 6800 with the vf-700cu will go in the top slot without hacking the ZM-NB47J to shreds.

It runs warm in idle but im still installing stuff, yet to play any games yet

velvet45 · Post by **velvet45** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:01 am

Macman, thanks for the feedback. That VX should easily run above 200FSB at those timings. Not sure why you are having trouble. Probably needs some tweaking in the other timings.
Try this for VX: 2-2-8-2-7-16-2-2-2-2-auto-auto-enabled-auto-0-auto-level4-auto-auto-auto-auto-auto-07X-auto

v3n: sorry to hear that the upper slot wont accomodate the 6800 and cooler. I may have to go h20 coolingbut dont really want to.