Acoustipack alternative (Melamine)

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:49 am

I'm looking to add acoustic foam to my Sonata case to quiet it further. Everywhere I look, the AcoustiPack Deluxe kit is either out of stock or too expensive.

One place I've found that's really reasonable is www.foambymail.com

The two foams I'm looking into are both linked on their Products page.
The 1/4 inch "Volara" foam (for sound blocking) has a STC(Sound Transmission Coefficient) rating of 26. It's 'closed-cell' foam.
and
The 1-1/2 inch egg-crate foam (for sound absorption) has an overall NRC (Noise Reduction Coefficient) rating of .67

Has anyone ordered from these guys before and is the foam up to snuff? For $50 I can get enough of this stuff to line two cases (maybe more).
The only drawback is that their foam doesn't come with adhesive backing. I can get a spray can of 3M spray adhesive for $5 that should work fine, just extra work.

Any comments?

PaqMaster · Post by **PaqMaster** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:15 am

You should try the Melamine Sound Absorbing Foam from McMaster-Carr. They have a NRC rating of 0.95 and they cost only $2.95 for 24"x24". I've used these and they work well. Very light weight and easy to cut. You can use the 3M spray stuff to attach it to your case.

Melamine Foam (Scroll to the bottom)

McMaster-Carr

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:19 am

These almost seem too good to be true.
24" square foam (1/2 inch thick), $2.95 each, NRC of .95 (1.00 is perfect noise absorption).

Tell me, are these tiles actually foam or are they like dusty plaster ceiling tiles?:?:
And are they flexible at all?

The size is almost perfect to affix to the two side panels (some trimming).

It looks like three tiles should be more than plenty to line the inside of my case ($2.95 x 3 = $8.85 + s/h)
That's significantly cheaper than the laminated egg-crate foam I talked about above.
I had planned on drilling out the rivets holding the other side panel in place then re-riveting once the foam was installed. Do any Sonata owners know how much room exists between the motherboard tray and the back side panel?:?:
Anyone else have comments?

PaqMaster · Post by **PaqMaster** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:36 am

Ya that's what I thought too when I first learned about these from this forum.

These are rigid to a certain point. Basically these are dense foam sandwitched between two thin layer of fiberglass(?). If you try to bend it will with not much force.

You should also use these to fill in empty drive bays similar to what the AcoustiPack does.

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:04 am

Whoa that stuff is cheap. Let us know how it turns out. If it actually does cut down on noise for that cheap then it should be put on the recommended page

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:23 am

OK, I ordered four sheets of the Melamine foam tiles from McMaster.
At $2.95 each (total cost $11.80 + whatever the s/h will be) why the hell not?

It's cheap, and if it really sucks, well lets just say I've spent more on beer in one night!

Hopefully though, it'll work out good.

I'll let everyone know after I get it installed.
If it doesn't fit behind the motherboard tray, I've got access to some 1/2" and 1/4" closed cell foam we use at work to line our tool boxes with.

PaqMaster · Post by **PaqMaster** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 10:36 am

Here is a short review on this stuff.

FrostyTech

BTW...it worked well for me.

Alistair · Post by **Alistair** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:40 pm

Anyone with a close up detailed picture of this Melamine?

The 'Volara' at foambymail.com also looks interesting, any reviews found on that stuff?

the_mouse · Post by **the_mouse** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 8:59 pm

this is a dumb newbie question, but I'm assuming you could cover the entire interior surface of the case, but would have to leave the ventilation grills at the back uncovered right?

thanks,
Mouse

fmah · Post by **fmah** » Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:51 pm

the_mouse wrote:this is a dumb newbie question, but I'm assuming you could cover the entire interior surface of the case, but would have to leave the ventilation grills at the back uncovered right?

thanks,
Mouse

Keep uncovered the vents in the back, and the front and any side air intakes. Well you could possibly get by without any side inlets if your front intakes are large enough. Normally you want the area of the exhaust to be about the same as the area of the inlet.

the_mouse · Post by **the_mouse** » Fri Apr 25, 2003 1:17 pm

ahh - thanks mate!

"squeak"

JEN · Post by **JEN** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 3:53 am

Mr_Smartepants wrote:OK, I ordered four sheets of the Melamine foam tiles from McMaster.
At $2.95 each (total cost $11.80 + whatever the s/h will be) why the hell not?

It's cheap, and if it really sucks, well lets just say I've spent more on beer in one night!
Hopefully though, it'll work out good.

I'll let everyone know after I get it installed.
If it doesn't fit behind the motherboard tray, I've got access to some 1/2" and 1/4" closed cell foam we use at work to line our tool boxes with.

Have you tried it out yet?

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 9:09 am

JEN wrote:
Mr_Smartepants wrote:OK, I ordered four sheets of the Melamine foam tiles from McMaster.
At $2.95 each (total cost $11.80 + whatever the s/h will be) why the hell not?

It's cheap, and if it really sucks, well lets just say I've spent more on beer in one night!
Hopefully though, it'll work out good.

I'll let everyone know after I get it installed.
If it doesn't fit behind the motherboard tray, I've got access to some 1/2" and 1/4" closed cell foam we use at work to line our tool boxes with.
Have you tried it out yet?

Nope, it hasn't arrived in the post yet.

Hopefully, it'll arrive sometime this week. I should have a review done by next weekend if all goes well.

If the review is up to Mike's high standards, maybe it'll make the front page.

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Sat May 03, 2003 7:54 am

OK everybody. I finally installed the Melamine foam into my Antec Sonata.

I'm pleased to say that I am very impressed with the sound reduction the foam allowed. I'll post lots of pictures tonight (hopefully).
Note to all, the foam sheets are less than 1/2"thick, probably 3/8" and compress to about 1/16". The fiberglass on either side of the foam is just thin flexible mesh. I was under the assumption they had shiny rigid fiberglass on either side but I was mistaken. The fiberglass on either side is removable but without it the foam is too floppy. The sheets cut easily with a sharp razorblade and straight edge.

I lined every piece of exposed metal (within reason) that I could. The foam is even under the motherboard tray.

This foam's thickness is absolutely perfect for the Sonata! Some foams would be too thick or thin but this Melamine is just right! You'll see on the pic of the removable side panel that the foam is about 1mm too thick for the flange but that it compresses easily into the groove.
I could have installed this foam almost entirely without adhesive (just friction mounted).

The only caveat is that since it's coated with fiberglass, I'd recommend wearing gloves and a mask (my arms are burning!).

I have the PC cooking right now folding@home to get it good and warmed up for heat testing tonight. I opened up the front grill area and cut out the bottom front opening bigger for more airflow. I also removed the Vantec Stealth that was mounted to the front so now it's down to one 120mm L1A (fan-only connector) and one 80mm L1A on CPU (12V).

The fan noise is GONE!

The only thing I can hear at the moment is that damn WD Caviar 120GB drive! The foam definately made a dent in the high pitched whine but it's still there. I have a Maxtor on the way to replace it but it's been over a month in the mail and I think it's lost.

Pictures are coming I promise!

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Sun May 04, 2003 10:41 am

Bump.

Pictures coming!

Vector · Post by **Vector** » Sun May 04, 2003 11:29 am

I just received 3 pieces of the stuff from McMaster. I'm going to place an order for the D8000 from Coolcases (I'm waiting for an email reply from Jim), and then I'm going to put the stuff in there. I'm glad to hear that it works well for ya, Mr Smartepants.

JEN · Post by **JEN** » Sun May 04, 2003 11:57 am

Sounds great, can't wait for the pictures

I am gonna have to get me some of that Melamine foam

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Sun May 04, 2003 3:05 pm

Yea id like to see a review on it myself.

Liquidated · Post by **Liquidated** » Sun May 04, 2003 7:13 pm

speaking from an a"cost"tic standpoint, the acustipack is pretty pricy but if you think about it, it's pretty well designed for pc's.

From what I recall of physics (that was a year and a half I'd rather not remember) sound paneling is designed to do two major things...

Absorbants which work by trapping the sound waves inside of the material.

barriers which reflect the incoming sound wave.

The average computer case does an good job as a barrier (I mean the computer is quieter with the case on than off right?) but is almost nil in the absorbtion department.

Melamine on the other hand is designed as an absorbant. Place that stuff up against the steel or aluminum case panel and you have a pretty good system going...

Any incoming sound wave's intensity is going to be degraded by the foam both on it's way to the case and again on the remaining wave after it's reflected, ideally doubling the effective thickness of the foam.

from the same mcmasters they also sell relatively inexpensive barrier sheeting..
http://www.mcmaster.com/catalog/109/html/3238.html

Vinyl Based Mass-Loaded Sheeting comes in at about $8.16/foot for a 54" wide, 0.107" thick sample. the stuff comes in a .042" version as well for slightly less.

The added barrier sheet doesn't add too much to the overall thickness when applied under the Melamine (keep the absorbant exposed to the sound) and the price is pretty low. This sheeting is to add to the barrier value of the case side so that a greater % of the wave is reflected back into the case/outer foam and less to our ears.

What the deluxe acutic pack gives is several square feet of composite foam that has a barrier for base and foam for absorbtion all at a mininum thickness that's required for a pc.

Looking over the mcmasters catalog, their composites are all too thick, making them unusable in those tuff spots in a PC.

All told, the variety and combination of materials that deluxe pack gives seems like a good value to me if you want the flexibility and complete solution. On the other hand, the stuff from mcmasters seems great especially if you are fixing up multiple pc's and you can mix/match the materials used.

Cheers!
-Liq

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Sun May 04, 2003 11:31 pm

Pictures! Finally!

All 19 pictures can be viewed here.

Without the front fan, my video card now gets up to 116*F at idle (was 113*F). I might have to put another L1A on the front fan mount. Case temps are 109*F and the CPU temp is the same as before.

Last night was the first night my wife didn't complain about the PC noise while she slept!

**Edit Updated links, original hosting site went down.

Vector · Post by **Vector** » Mon May 05, 2003 3:41 am

Question for you Mr Smartepants,

What did you use to stick this stuff to the case. It obviously doesn't come with an adhesive backing. I don't want to use anything that's going to eat through the fiber glass.

JEN · Post by **JEN** » Mon May 05, 2003 3:53 am

Any ideas where I can get some of this Melamine foam from within the UK?

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Mon May 05, 2003 5:26 am

Vector wrote: What did you use to stick this stuff to the case. It obviously doesn't come with an adhesive backing.

I hardly used anything at all! 90% of the foam is held in place by the case itself. I cut the foam in such a way so that it was just barely longer/wider than the hole it was going in. For the panels that I couldn't friction mount (ie. back/front panel, top, etc.) I used Elmers "speed tack" or something like that (spray adhesive). I don't think anyone makes spray adhesive that's resin based that would eat through the fiberglass. Alternatively, you could use a hot glue gun.

JEN wrote: Any ideas where I can get some of this Melamine foam from within the UK?

PM me your mailing address and I'll send you the two sheets I have left. For my whole case, I only used 1 & 1/3 sheets (I ordered four). These things weigh almost nothing so s/h should be minimal. $10 total? (or 6 GBP).

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Mon May 05, 2003 11:33 am

Hey mr. smartypants, have you considered cutting out the metal behind the front 120mm fan? I would think that would help airflow quite a bit, but I dont know if it would weaken the case structurally or not. Also maybe a little piece put on the bottom side of the empty hardrive rack above your hardrive might absorb a little of the hardrive noise.

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Mon May 05, 2003 11:48 pm

Radeonman wrote: 1) Not having any experience with the sonata, does it have a removable motherboard tray? If not, was the material thin/compressable enough to allow you put put it behind your motherboard (i.e. put the foam down and just mount the mobo back on top)?

2) While your CPU temps may not have changed much, have other readings changed? While the steel in my case may not be much of a thermal conductor, it probably does better than this foam.

3) Would you do it again?

1. The motherboard tray is NOT removable. Nor is the rightside panel. The case is constructed in such a way that the bottom/rightside/top panels are all one piece and wrap around to the left side and riveted to the drive cages. If I drilled out the rivets to remove the bottom/right/top panels (as originally planned), then the entire case would just fall apart. The space between the metal motherboard tray and the rightside panel is just enough to slide the melamine foam between them. Just lift the motherboard tray and slide the foam under it. I did not install foam between the motherboard and the motherboard tray (no reason). As you can see in the pictures, the foam compresses to about 1/16" (2mm). It will compress further if you remove the thin fiberglass sheeting from both sides.

2. After doing some testing last night I have this to report. The CPU core temps are LOWER by 4*F (from 138*F to 134*F at 100%load). The case temp ROSE by 1*F (now up to 109*F). And my video card locks up while running 3DMark03 (front fan removed). I'm going to reinstall my 120mm L1A to the front mount and do some more tests. My video card worked fine before when I had the Stealth fan on the front mount so I'm not anticipating any problems.

3. Absolutely!

The only change I'd make next time around is to first line the case with some sound blocking material (roofers tape, Dynamat, Paxmate, etc), then layer it with the Melamine foam. It's a good thing I didn't order the eggcrate foam as there wouldn't be enough room for it inside the case (too thick).

I'm very happy with the results. Noise has been significantly reduced and the noise that's left (HDD whine) has been adequately muffled.

My next step is to line the inside of my computer desk with some closed cell foam (or leftover melamine if JEN doesn't get back to me).

Excellent results for minimal costs! Yeah baby! Yeah!!!

aphonos · Post by **aphonos** » Tue May 06, 2003 9:34 am

Mr Smartepants wrote:The only change I'd make next time around is to first line the case with some sound blocking material (roofers tape, Dynamat, Paxmate, etc), then layer it with the Melamine foam. It's a good thing I didn't order the eggcrate foam as there wouldn't be enough room for it inside the case (too thick).

Seeking a clarification....it is my understanding that Dynamat/roofers tape is useful for minimizing case vibration, but does nothing to "block" sound--I guess that makes it more of a sound eliminator than a blocker. Paxmate, according to feedback from users on this site, is too thin to block sound (though I have used it to cover small holes in my case to improve my air flow). Your melamine foam or some other type of high-density foam is better for blocking noise. It depends on what type of noise you are seeking to eliminate as to what material you should line your case with. Cf. Ceiling Tiles verses Acoustic Foam Or am I just over-parsing words like my wife says I do?

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Thu May 08, 2003 10:17 am

Hmm, now that I think about it, I'm not sure what I'd do differently.

Dynamat and Paxmate are both highly over-rated and are apparently worthless for PC silence. On the other hand, many users in these forums report good results using roofers tape or other bitumen based tar-stuff (similar to Dynamat etc). The good thing about this melamine foam is that it's thin enough that you can make multi-composite layers (roofer tape/melamine/egg-crate) if you have the room. I might be able to get ahold of some high-density egg-crate packing foam (enough for the one side panel). There's no way I can fit egg crate anywhere in the case other than the side panel. I'm planning this weekend on fitting the extra hard drive bays with a layer or two of the melamine foam and some closed cell black foam in the upper 5.25 drive bays to see if there's any improvement. I'm also going to line the inside of the front plastic bezel as long as it doesn't interfere with the excellent airflow I have now.

I have both 120mm L1A's connected to my enermax rheostat and they're both at 5V (minimum setting). My temps are stable (running F@H for hours) ;CPU 134*F, Case 109*F, video card 105*F (118*F at load), hard drive 90*F.
The only noise sources I can tell now are that damn WD120 drive and my PSU. My TruePower PSU now makes a very slight intermittant on/off beep tone. Whenever I notice the tone, my LCD monitor develops 'wave' interference that goes away as soon as the tone stops.
Aggravating! I'm not sure how long it's been doing that but now that I've significantly quieted my PC it's more noticable.

Ah, the vicious cycle continues.....

MrMajestic · Post by **MrMajestic** » Sat May 10, 2003 11:38 am

I wonder what the shipping to Sweden would cost? E-mailed McMaster but they couldnt give an estimate. Since they ship only thru DHL, Im guessing it would be on the high side. Plus tax and customs of course. How much is the shipping in the states?

Mr_Smartepants · Post by **Mr_Smartepants** » Sat May 10, 2003 12:05 pm

Well, the shipping on the four sheets I ordered was only ~$6 to my US address. These sheets weight next to nothing.
If you want, I'll go to the Icelandic post office and find out how much shipping would be to Sweden and let you know.

Acoustipack alternative (Melamine)

Acoustipack alternative (Melamine)

pun inc...