1st post/ Request for advice on The Well- Rounded Tweak

Got a shopping cart of parts that you want opinions on? Get advice from members on your planned or existing system (or upgrade).

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warriorpoet
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1st post/ Request for advice on The Well- Rounded Tweak

Post by warriorpoet » Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:16 am

Hey guys. I wanted to get your input on my new system build. I'm on a tight budget, so no "you should get an A64 X2 4800+ with an ultra quiet 7800GTX with a custom passive cooler in a custom p180" m'kay? ;)

Anywho, this machine is going to be used primarily for gaming/school/kids, so it needs to be fairly well-rounded. Also, tweaking is my favorite hobby (or waste of time, according to my wife), so I will be overclocking this bugger as far as it will go. I won't take advantage of SLi now, but in about 3mo. due to $ constraints, so the GTX is out of the question (before you ask).

All that said; here's the spec:

Case: Cooler Master Centurion 5
Mobo: ABIT AN8 SLi
CPU: AMD 3000+ (Venice)
Heatsink: Thermalright XP-90c (gift)
Video: Leadtek 6800GT
PSU: Antec SmartPower 500w
HDD: Hitachi DeskStar SATA II 160Gb
RAM: 1Gb Corsair Value PC3200
DVD: NEC 16x Dual-Layer Burner

Help me tweak this bugger for the best Price/Performance/Noise balance!
Thanks

merovingian
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Post by merovingian » Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:06 pm

Flash the 6800GT to ultra? You already purchased or are you also looking for advice on what to buy?

warriorpoet
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Post by warriorpoet » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:32 pm

This is a semi-final list of components that I am using to build my personal system. If something better is recommended (within reason), I'll amend my list, and use components already purchased to complete builds for my friends/family.
I am a fairly experienced system builder (20+ builds thus far), so I am really interested in seeing what optimizations you guys come up with.
Yes, I am planning on OCing the heck out of that 6800. :)

warriorpoet
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Post by warriorpoet » Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:57 pm

My bro just gave me some ideas (dangerous, those). Here's his suggestion:

Mobo: MSI Neo4-F
CPU: A64 3000+
Video: Sapphire x850xt
Case/PSU: Centurion 5/ 380w PSU

My beef? I get a little nervous about that included PSU. Is SLI worth it over that spec? I wonder...

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:09 pm

warriorpoet wrote:My bro just gave me some ideas (dangerous, those). Here's his suggestion:

Mobo: MSI Neo4-F
CPU: A64 3000+
Video: Sapphire x850xt
Case/PSU: Centurion 5/ 380w PSU

My beef? I get a little nervous about that included PSU. Is SLI worth it over that spec? I wonder...
well er. you want the 2.2 ghz chip. I wouldnt bother with sli ultra, its hot, you wont use it ever (ill explain in a second) and, well, it costs more.

you want a revision E 2.2 ghz chip with 512k cache on it if you can afford one.
the 850xt is super fast, super hot, and not a huge difference over the highest of the x800 series in terms of gaming experience. It really was just a marketing ploy to show people that nvidia didnt have the best card when the 6800 ultra was doing so well for so long. 1600x1200 looks like crap on most monitors that arent over 800 dollars. so really, youll be playing at like 10-1200ish resolutions normally. the AA filtering is better often than pure resolution, and that is mainly the board's technology, which x800 series has and of course the 6800 has.

you are on SPCR right? just wondering...

Sli is for people who know they will have a lot of money very soon, like in less than 6 months. If you want to go very fast, get one 7800 nvidia card, if not, i wouldnt bother much with sli. people used to say that "oh, ill get the 6600 gt and then when i have cash/need more power, get another one!. well, they didnt. or shouldnt have, as bfg 6800 type would have done better than 2 cards, the prices drop on the higher level card so often that it makes it kinda silly to reinvest in another card of which now is considered 2nd or 3rd choice compared to what is out there to afford.

if you save on the above suggestions you will find yourself having enough cash for a high quality:
psu - seasonic s12 430watt I recommend for you
Fans - 120 mm Nexus fans. you dont even need to undervolt them/control them actually. Make sure you have adequate front pressure, id put more pressure from air and intake on front to make sure the psu doesnt ramp up. That case is very nice and not pricey. It has more style than typical spcr standards, but thats ok, still can be a quiet rig.

some may shooot me down for saying sli mobo isnt necessary, but i say by the time you can afford the next card, its better to just buy a faster card with more technology.

merovingian
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Post by merovingian » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:01 pm

I pretty much agree with these guys.

MSI Neo4-F, still working out some of the bugs
A64 3000+ Venice (should see over 2.7GHz with your cooling)
Centurion 5 (damn good case for the cash)
or The 530/532 version which has two 120mm fans
Seasonic 430W PSU (quiet and well priced)
One of those fanless ATI 800 series cards or even a 6600GT, I love mine and I pretty much replace my GPU/CPU every year and a half.
Western Digital 250GB $100 shipped
Corsair value ram is awesome
NEC 3540 is perfect
Lite on DVD reader
Audigy 2 gamer
Fanmate2 fan controller and 2 ultra quiet fans, I like papst/Nexus.

That sounds about right to me.

warriorpoet
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Post by warriorpoet » Thu Jul 21, 2005 5:19 am

I really appreciate your suggestions. Iron sharpens iron, right?

If SLI is going to be a huge heat/noise source, then I don't really want to go that way. As far as sound is concerned, I usually go on-board (especially w/ ABIT's 7.1/ off-board card solution).
What is the problem with the Neo4-F? I've only heard good things about it. What stability problems are being reported? Should I stick with an ABIT board (Q-OTES) instead?
As far as a 3000+ to 3500+ upgrade is concerned, I'm not going to do it. When average overclocks for the 3000+ are hitting 2.4 GHz on stock cooling and wattages, I see no point in spending another $150.
My decision on VidCards comes down to: 6800GT (pixel shader 3.0, $330), or x850xt (best PS 2.0 card available, $400), again, no 7800GTX-$575 (tight budget, remember? ;) ).
I REALLY want the Seasonic 430. However, the cheapest I've seen it is $91. Is that worth sacrificing an x850xt for?
Are the Nexus fans that much quieter than the Centurion's stock fan? I'd like to get some input before dropping $25 on a fan. I already have a few quiet Aerocool 80mm fans laying around to replace that buzzy 80mm HDD cooler, so I'm good w/ that.
BTW I hate Western Digital :evil:

warriorpoet
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Post by warriorpoet » Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:42 am

OK, how perfect is this? Work just called (day off), and I'm getting a (small) bonus! WooHoo!

Anywho, check out the new (improved) spec.

Case: Lian-Li PC V-1000B/ V-1100B
Mobo: ABIT AN8 Ultra
CPU: A64 3000+
Heatsink: xp-90c
Video: Sapphire x850xt
HDD: 200 Gb Samsung SATA II
Optical: NEC Dual-Layer Burner
PSU: Seasonic S12 430w
Display: Samsung 730B
Fans: All 120mm will be Nexus

Just how much of an audible difference is there between the V-1000 and V-1100? Does anyone have experience with these?
Now that I've completely blown my original spec out of the water, how would you quiet this beast? I'm mostly concerned about suspension of the 3.5" HDD, but I don't really want to use a 5.25" mount.

merovingian
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:56 am

Post by merovingian » Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:46 am

warriorpoet wrote:I really appreciate your suggestions. Iron sharpens iron, right?

If SLI is going to be a huge heat/noise source, then I don't really want to go that way. As far as sound is concerned, I usually go on-board (especially w/ ABIT's 7.1/ off-board card solution).
What is the problem with the Neo4-F? I've only heard good things about it. What stability problems are being reported? Should I stick with an ABIT board (Q-OTES) instead?
As far as a 3000+ to 3500+ upgrade is concerned, I'm not going to do it. When average overclocks for the 3000+ are hitting 2.4 GHz on stock cooling and wattages, I see no point in spending another $150.
My decision on VidCards comes down to: 6800GT (pixel shader 3.0, $330), or x850xt (best PS 2.0 card available, $400), again, no 7800GTX-$575 (tight budget, remember? ;) ).
I REALLY want the Seasonic 430. However, the cheapest I've seen it is $91. Is that worth sacrificing an x850xt for?
Are the Nexus fans that much quieter than the Centurion's stock fan? I'd like to get some input before dropping $25 on a fan. I already have a few quiet Aerocool 80mm fans laying around to replace that buzzy 80mm HDD cooler, so I'm good w/ that.
BTW I hate Western Digital :evil:
-Heh, bad experiance with western digital? :lol: Okay.
-Yeah, I would get a solid PSU for the machine over a superfast gpu. I like something like this with no fans...
http://www.newegg.com/OldVersion/app/Vi ... 174&depa=1
It's plenty fast and totally silent.
-I would go with the Neo4-F, there is some thread about regarding OC issues but there is already a work around on the bug, no biggie. I'll show you the thread if you get the board.
-Don't know about the Nexus fan difference but I would say it's not at the top of the list at $50
-I agree about the chip, 3000+ for sure.

That build is going to fly! :wink:

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:31 pm

Coolmax CR series PSU,the one with the 140 mm 3 speed fan. $50 gets you 400 quiet watt-also comes in 450-500-550,AMD64 generally ain't a power hog but the OC means more watts/heat etc. The Abit's elegant chipset cooling is a plus.

Look up the Coolermaster 120mm fan ($10 at newegg) which runs at a stock,soft 720 rpm...but also get a thermo control Artic Cooling 80 mm,which will ramp up a bit if yer overclocked gamer self pushes things-Artic TC fan=$5

ronrem
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Location: Santa Cruz

Post by ronrem » Fri Jul 22, 2005 6:39 pm

- and the SATA 2 Samsung Spinright 200 gb is now out-and Samsung claims its even quieter now.

You may want to look at Artic Cooling's Silentium 2 case-very sweet low noise layout-good psu,fans included,hard drive case/silencer,would pose a problem if you need more than 2 internal HD's

bmwolf
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Post by bmwolf » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:11 pm

I've been a lurker here for awhile but I decided to sign up, just to throw in my $.02. That Abit board has a heatpipe, right? The Lian li mounts the Motherboard up side down. Doesn't this render the heatpipe nearly useless? I recently got an asus an8-sli premium. NOT because I intend to run SLI but becuase I wanted all the features and stability this board offers. This board features silent operation with a heatpipe northbridge cooling solution very much like the abit. I was going to get the Lian Li v1000 case but decided against it because many people have had problems with heat by mounting this motherboard upside down. This may be something you look into before getting that board and/or case.

~El~Jefe~
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Post by ~El~Jefe~ » Sat Jul 23, 2005 8:17 pm

upside down with heatpipe = suX0rZ

true very true.

3000 has only 1.8 ghz speed on the new cores, old 754's it had 2.0, which to be honest, id take 2.0ghz in the 754 over that. Overclocking? whats the poin besides for big heat problems creating more noise. honestly, get 2.2, be 10x happier in long run right? no? maybe so?

warriorpoet
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Post by warriorpoet » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:29 pm

bmwolf wrote:I've been a lurker here for awhile but I decided to sign up, just to throw in my $.02. That Abit board has a heatpipe, right? The Lian li mounts the Motherboard up side down. Doesn't this render the heatpipe nearly useless? I recently got an asus an8-sli premium. NOT because I intend to run SLI but becuase I wanted all the features and stability this board offers. This board features silent operation with a heatpipe northbridge cooling solution very much like the abit. I was going to get the Lian Li v1000 case but decided against it because many people have had problems with heat by mounting this motherboard upside down. This may be something you look into before getting that board and/or case.
Interesting...I recall this problem with earlier heatpipe-driven CPU coolers (I've owned just about every Thermalright CPU cooler), but thought the "gravity effect" had been addressed by now. Hmmm....maybe not w/ this mobo. Do you have a link?
As for Overclocking (yes it's capitalized, like God, for instance ;) ), there's something oddly romantic about squeezing more power out of something that was never meant to provide it. Kinda like squeezing more quiet (not silence) out of something that was never meant to be silent, like, oh, say, a PC. :D
As far as OCing the Venice core processors, they seem to be able to take quite a jump in MHz without a significant rise in voltage/heat. A fully overclocked 3000+ still puts out less heat than my wife's Athlon XP, so I'm happy (especially with the performance of the xp-90c taken into account).
As for the PSU, I've never seen a Coolmax with an ATX 2.0 spec., or a 24-pin mobo connection, link?
Silentium cases strike me as a bit scary. It's almost as if they tossed every concern for cooling out the window, and decided to focus on silence instead. Plus they use a proprietary PSU. Shades of Dell, anyone?
I've ordered everything but the case for now, so any further info/suggestions on that will be greatly appreciated. I cannot reiterate how much I appreciate your help. It's not every forum that conducts itself in such a helpful, polite, and dare I say, professional manner. You all are to be commended for contributing to such a welcoming community.

bmwolf
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Post by bmwolf » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:25 pm

Here is one I found real quick. You know how its harder to find things online when you actually need to? If your just surfing normally you find all kinds of cool stuff! :wink: Remember this is the Asus board, maybe the Abit has a better design. I know most newer CPU heatsinks aren't really affected by this, but I don't know about the motherboard heatpipes because they are fairly new. You could always just try it and if it dosen't work send it back and get a fatality which is nearly identical without the heatpipe.

http://forums.pcper.com/showthread.php? ... ge=2&pp=15

warriorpoet
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Post by warriorpoet » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:07 am

Alright, I have yet to get a satisfactory answer from anyone (including ABIT), so my brother is getting this one in a Centurion 5 (lucky fishpoo). I'm going to hold on until crossfire (less noise/power/heat w/ ATI). I've yet to see an Xfire board proposal w/ a heatpipe.

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