HP Pavilion.....Modded for Silence.

Enclosures and acoustic damping to help quiet them.

Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Devonavar

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Bluefront
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HP Pavilion.....Modded for Silence.

Post by Bluefront » Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:12 pm

Edit....I started this project after I acquired an older HP Pavilion MATX case. It's all steel with a two-piece plastic bezel. The PSU is propriatory (shorter than normal, noisy), but a std PSU will fit (after drilling new mount holes). Problem is the case is short, and a std psu will be within 15mm or so of a short optical drive. I deceided to try a dc/dc converter...didn't work. I then settled on a small Fortron MATX PSU, mounted internally at the lower front of the case. After many changes I ended up with a quiet computer that runs basically off one Yate Loon 120mm fan....normally at 670rpms. It's quiet. This computer is setup with a different airflow technique, very unique. What follows is most of the story......cheap, quiet, HP Pavilion-looking computer.


I just put together my quietest computer.....MSI MATX board, P4-2.6 Northwood, Ninga Cooler using one Yate Loon as an exhaust, 200W DC/DC converter with external 12V power supply, older HP small case, Samsung 2.5" SATA drive.

It's virtually silent.....the single Yate Loon 120mm can be run at 800rpm, and still maintain an idle temp of 36C. The HD is located in the normal PSU spot, runs 28C all the time. The fan is mounted on rubber vacuum hoses, not attached to the cooler. The intake tracks (one in front and one in the back) are lined with dampening, as is the exhaust track.

Well during the testing I found out the PSU is not powerful enough to handle this machine. I thought the 200w unit would be sufficient. It crashes during load testing, and will not run with an internal CDROM.

Not sure where to go from here....the design works so well I hesitate to use a normal PSU. I guess a Pentium M and a new MB is my only option. This is sad..... :(

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Any ideas welcomed.....
Last edited by Bluefront on Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:30 am, edited 2 times in total.

sonuvbob
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Post by sonuvbob » Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:53 pm

Sit a Phantom the hd would normally go? :D

Or on top of the case?

theyangster
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Post by theyangster » Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:24 pm

I'd say, since you have a lot of free space up front

perhaps put a bare PSU (so heatsinks exposed) say vertical so it is convection cooled

the only expense I can think of is a higher idle temp


the Vacuum hoses look sexy

nice build overall
:)

Elixer
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Post by Elixer » Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:43 pm

If it's an option try undervolting/underclocking the processor. It's possible that you may be able to get it to be stable at a lower frequency and if you lower the power draw some. How do the voltages look with the power supply? Also worth checking to see if the external supply is working properly.

spolitta
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Post by spolitta » Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:59 pm

Impressive work, reminds me a lot about the shuttle zen actually. very sad to hear about the PSU.

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:16 am

There's no way that setup is exceeding 200W DC power draw.

M/B: 5-10W
CPU: 69W TDP
HDD: <10W at all times
FAN: 3.6W max
Optical drive: <20W, ~0W most of the time

So maximum your rig is pulling barely over a 100W. I suspect the external AC/DC converter.

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:53 am

Yeah, I was fairly certain this converter/power supply would work with this setup. Link to PSU. The setup runs just fine off the PSU that came with the case....it's also 200w. I tried three different 12V power sources....same result. The idea was to power the computer off an automotive battery, charged by a solar panel on the roof. Should have worked for an occasional use computer.

The voltage readings are normal while it's running.....it just shuts off without warning. It might have an internal problem....hard to say.

There is enough room to put the HP PSU in the bottom front of the case. It's about 2" shorter than a standard PSU. Problem is it runs hot, and the fan ramps up quickly. Maybe I can mod it to be quieter.....or find another PSU that would be quieter and fit.

But as it is, this computer is as quiet as anyone could want.....plus it runs very cool. I'll get it fixed.....somehow. :?

CGameProgrammer
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Post by CGameProgrammer » Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:08 am

Seasonic PSUs are extremely difficult to hear. Why not just buy one of them? If it turns out the PSU was not the problem then just return it for a refund.

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:51 am

Well a normal-sized PSU won't fit in the case with the Ninga.....plus even if it could, the intake to the PSU would be blocked. This is a very small case. And to complicate things, if I don't use that rear intake, the front intake is too restricted to properly cool the case.....quietly.

But I lucked out. My local used computer store had a nice Fortron small PSU (180w). It seems to be working so far. If successful I'll substitute my quiet Sanyo Petit Ace fan in this fortron.....although it's quiet as is. The pictures here are my first attempt with this new setup. If it works out, I'll completely enclose the intake so it will get ambient air only. Amazingly the idle temps haven't changed at all, even though the PSU is exhausting into the case.

Issac Kuo would be pleased with this method..... :lol:

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Linus
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Post by Linus » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:23 pm

Bluefront wrote:I tried three different 12V power sources....same result.
What was the wattage/amperage on each of those bricks?

I gotta say, I hope you get this working, because it's similar to what I hope to move to.

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:43 pm

No bricks....it was attached to two different 12v batteries. The last time I also had a 6A Battery charger hooked to the battery. The voltage never went below 12.5V on any of the tests.

Strange behaviour since that PSU was advertised as "P4 Ready". The CPU is a P4-2.6 w/hyper-threading enabled. Still I don't think it draws more than 70w or so. :?

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:33 pm

Ok...It's working fine with this new PSU. I ran it 100% for 1/2 hr with the Yate Loon @1350rpm (maxed). The CPU peaked at 44C. I really cannot hear the PSU fan even during the stress test. It has a different fan I never heard of before...... Protechnic Electric MGA8012HS-A20, .25A, 80mmx20mm. It's very quiet at it's base idle(held in my hand). In the case it's inaudable.

If you look at the new photo with the PSU duct, you can see the PSU draws air from behind the front bezel.....the openings are on the bottom facing down. This case design tilts the case up slightly, giving a fairly good opening for intake.

I left a space above the duct so the Yate Loon exhaust fan can also draw some air from this front intake. Having multiple intakes lessens the noise quite a bit, compared to drawing all the air from the front....like this case was stock.

The next project is an automatic fan control system. I'd like it to idle at 800rpm or so, and max out at 100% cpu load. Even at max rpm, it's not bad. At 800 rpms it's really quiet. More to come....

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qviri
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Post by qviri » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:30 pm

Very nice, Bluefront. Perhaps I should search for a case-like entity to mod a computer into as well...

My idea I'm looking to execute is stripping the case off a $10 4-port router and making it fit in the bottom PCI slot. I like integrating devices :)

edit: oh, and if possible you might want to take the fan grill off the PSU fan. I could just take it off my Seasonic mATX. It's not the most restrictive grill out there, but the less metal the more airflow :)

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:18 pm

Thanks....I did take the grill off the PSU fan before I made the duct. I had to take the PSU apart to route the wires out the MB side. That was the only way to get the PSU forward enough so I can install a long AGP card.

This is the first time I ever used ambient air as an intake for a PSU.....It seems to be keeping the PSU fan from ramping up no matter what. I'm impressed.

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Post by Tibors » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:23 pm

Bluefront wrote:It has a different fan I never heard of before...... Protechnic Electric MGA8012HS-A20, .25A, 80mmx20mm.
I'm amazed that it is quiet. That is a 3500RPM sleeve bearing fan. I recently got a newer Fortron mATX PSU which has a 15 mm thick 3400RPM sleeve bearing fan from Protechnic Electric and it makes quite a racket. On the other hand the fan in the original Nexus PSU (NX-3000) was a Protechnic Electric fan too.

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Post by Bluefront » Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:29 am

Humm.....Thanks for the info. Probably would be noisy at high speed, but the Fortron has a nice control system, and since it's running so cool, I've never heard it ramp up.

The HP PSU that came with the case was terrible.

Actually the location/direction of the exhaust from this PSU setup provides a nice amount of relatively cool airflow right on the edge of the VGA card. I'll discover more about this new (to me) case airflow setup when I get the thing complete with an AIW card, and a few more devices. Looks promising so far... :D

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Post by Linus » Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:00 am

Bluefront - Not sure if you're still hoping to run this PC off a battery, but you'll get better battery life if you go DC-DC over a DC-AC-DC setup (battery - inverter - standard PSU). Here are a few other DC-DC PSUs you could try:

MpegBox's DSATX - Pricey at $200, but it's got significantly more power on the 3.3V and 5V rails than the other DC-DC PSU you tried. It's got a huge input voltage range, which would be a big help since your batteries will be changing voltage as they charge & discharge. Also has circuitry for automatic shutdown when the battery gets too low, etc. Lots more info on it over at mp3car.com.

Opus Solutions' 150W DC-DC PSU - Still not cheap at $120, but it's still got the additional power on the 3.3V and 5V rails. Less regulated power on the 12V rail, but you could send 12V power directly from the battery if you keep the voltage within spec. Also has a big input voltage range and auto-shutdown circuitry. Again, lots of info at mp3car.com.

If you play around with DC-DC any more, please be sure to post your findings!

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Post by Bluefront » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:42 am

Thanks for the links....but I'm very disappointed about the results of this dc/dc thing. I have a really low power computer I'll try it in. It's on hold for now.

It's mostly finished, but I'm still not satisfied with the fan controller.....it won't go below 1100 at an idle. Other than that and a noisy alarm beeper, it's ok.

Right now it idles at 1100RMPs @33C.....maxes at 1350RPMs @45C. The output temp of the PSU is 31C at the max, and the output of the Yate Loon is also 31C.

I installed a cdrom and an AIW 8500.....the PSU handles the new load without any problems. I'm still amazed how cool the PSU runs.....even after a long burn. If I get this fan control fixed, I'll post again.

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mb2
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Post by mb2 » Thu Feb 16, 2006 11:41 am

not sure if this is relevant to the 'non-car' area but i'd think perhaps.. so..
http://mp3car.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=3c3089ced9ba13aeac79f486dbeb2e26&t=68636 wrote:PicoPSU-120 & PW-200M
These units are designed to power a miniITX motherboard, such as the VIA EPIA-series motherboards. They are small (especially the PicoPSU), which gives them a decided advantage for vehicle installations, where space is usually at a premium.
However, these units do not regulate the 12v line. That means that whatever voltage goes into the power supply is also fed to any 12v devices that are connected to the power supply.
You might be asking why this is so bad, since a car's electrical system is also 12v. True, but the car's electrical system fluctuates quite a bit. The power output will drop to around 9-10v when you crank the engine, as most of the power is fed to the starter. When the car is running and the battery is fully charged by the alternator, the voltage typically runs around 14v or even higher.
When the voltage drops below a certain level, a motherboard will simply shut off. When the voltage is too high, it will destroy components.
The advantage to these tiny PSUs is that there's no maximum output for the 12v line, because it's not regulating it. The maximum is only deetermined by the components it's made of. However, in a vehicle, you want a steady, regulated 12v current going into one of these power supplies. One maker of regulators specifically for vehicle computing applications is Carnetix.

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Post by Bluefront » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:48 pm

Well when I was using the converter, it was hooked to an automotive battery (big). The voltage remained constant the entire time I was testing. A battery with 750CCA rating should run that computer for a day easily without droping below 12V. I don't think I had a voltage problem here. The 12V line registered about 11.70 while the computer was running. Across the battery terminals measured 12.5 the whole time.

Wish I knew what is wrong..... :?

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Fri Feb 17, 2006 7:42 am

I switched the fan control over to the motherboard connector.....It didn't work well with my original CPU heatsink (swiftech), but with the Ninga it works pretty good with an ambient of 22C. I cannot adjust the idle speed, but I can set a desired temp, and the board adjusts the speed up/down. I'm very impressed so far.....it is just about perfect. (In the summer I might change my mind).

Here's the final specs (with a few mods left to do)....extremely quiet.

P4 2.6 Northwood Hyper-Threading enabled
Ninga Heatsink
!20mm Yate Loon Case fan
2x256 ram dual-channel
Fortron 180w PSU (internally mounted)
MSI mainboard
MSI DVD-CDRW
Samsung 80gb SATA laptop drive
AIW 8500
HP Pavilion case (completely foam dampened)

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Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:35 pm

Two more photos of the case.....First is from the front with the bezel removed. The lower half of the square intake opening leads to the PSU intake fan. The upper half of the opening is a straight shot to the Ninja, with the Yate Loon right behind it, blowing out the back. The rest of the front is lined with thin felt. What made this whole design work, was the relatively thick front bezel.......which made for a pretty effective secondary intake path to the CPU, and a separate intake for the PSU.

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This final photo is of the inside of the front bezel. I cut away some of the plastic, opening up this area for better airflow, lined the rest of the intake with acoustic foam, and filled all other areas not in the airflow with about 16oz (three tubes) of silicone rubber. It adds mass to the bezel and quiets the computer from the front.

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So far so good.....I now need to do something about the small, hi-pitched whiney fan on the AIW 8500. That is now audable, but nothing else from the front. Just a few mods left......

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Post by SixToes » Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:18 am

I was just about to throw that exact same case away and build a PC out of reclaimed components in something else - but you've inspired me to reuse it. Thanks Bluefront! :lol:

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Post by Bluefront » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:47 pm

It's a nice, well made case. The front sort-of grows on you.....and I like the colors. This project has been on hold for a few weeks, but there still remains a few things to do. I'd like a better fan control......haven't deceided yet. I did make a cover panel to hide the unused floppy opening. Good luck with your project.

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Post by BlueCan » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:10 pm

This is the same case I had my wife's system in for a while--before I upgraded to a P150. I acoustipak'd the whole thing, had 2 CD burners and had the HD on sorbothane blocks.

Idle temps were 4C higher than the current modded Sonata (Sonata II Bezel, suspended drive, cleaned-up interior to allow better airflow.).

The case itself is a tank, and if I'd really wanted to deal with the airflow issues it had I could probably have gotten it to where the Sonata is now.

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