ATI/Nvidia/mobo makers - suggestion - you won't listen tho'

[pedro]

I'm looking for what I would classify as a satisfactory mATX motherboard. But I can't seem to find one, no matter how hard I try. So, I hereby propose a list of features that I'd like to see. Most people won't agree with my suggestions... but I think there's a growing market for mATX with the whole HTPC thing and I have no idea why chipset/mobo companies aren't putting more effort into this area. The big fat boxes are a disgrace and a thing of the past. I actually don't want a HTPC but just a small computer.

Obviously I don't understand the economics of this market - otherwise these things would have been done already. But I fail to see why people are asking for, and are satisfied with, outdated gear, yet don't want the latest and greatest.

I also fully understand that I have no idea as to the practicality of these suggestions in terms of hardware but what the heck?

What I want

mATX layout
socket AM2 or 775
2 x DDR2 DIMMs
1 x GigE network adapter
8 x USB
2 x IEEE 1394 (b is possible but this is too forward thinking I fear)
8 x SATA II
1 x PCI-E 8x
2 x PCI
5 x fan headers
switch to reset BIOS - no jumpers
a passive heatsink on the chipset

What I don't want

onboard graphics
onboard audio
floppy port
PATA ports
serial port
parallel port
game port

Say what?

- 2 DIMMs only? - You must be mad. How many of you use all four slots? I never have. Still, I'd accept four slots, even though they never seem to work properly (i.e. 2 always seem to be the 'good' slots and 2 seem to be the 'bad' ones).

- no floppy? - Come one people, we're no longer in the 1980s... or 90s... hell, we're over half-way thru the naughties and this blight is still on 'high-end' motherboards. Why? The loss would cause some non-GUI ultra-geeks a few tearful days, or perhaps months, but the time has come. We've had CD, DVD, USB and we're now up to HD-DVD and the floppy still reigns supreme. If you really need one pick up a USB version. How many nanoseconds of HD content would 1.44MB hold anyway?

- no parallel/serial/game ports? - I don't even know what these things do! (I do really but even in their heyday I never used them.) Again, USB is the way forward.

- no audio? - OK, I'll make a concession here and allow it if it's 192/24. I personally use an M-Audio firewire box and it eats up onboard solutions. But this won't suit everyone of course.

- no graphics? - Again, I'll make a concession but only if I get onboard RAM too. What's the PCI-E 8x there for if you have onboard graphics?

- no PATA - I realize there's a dearth of SATA DVD devices but take away the ports and the devices will come, that you can be sure of.

Obviously these things will never happen - I suspect we'll still have the floppy in 2020. But it's what I'd like to see. I'm sure there are others out there who would feel the same way.

This would be a highly 'specialized' board in a sense and as such would have a limited market. On the other hand, taking off all this useless junk would surely save some money. And it's true what they say: Sometimes less is more.



Pedro.

PS: Modular PSUs too please.

[jaganath]

GA-965P-DQ6

No mATX, only 4 usb (just use a hub), only 1 IEEE1394(a). what on earth do you need 5 fan headers for? I only have two fans in my PC, and one of those is in the PSU.

[shimq1]

What video card plugs in a PCI-E 8X?

[frostedflakes]

Hasn't Intel dropped PATA and floppy controllers in their newest chipset? Of course, motherboard manufacturers can still include a 3rd party controller -- I'd assume most will, as there still seems to be some demand for IDE. But I agree about floppies, I don't know why a person would still use one. Most boards can be flashed from Windows, and for everything else USB thumbdrives and CDs can be made bootable.

But no integrated video and sound?!?! That's crazy talk.

[nici]

I ahve not managed to get windows bios flashing to work on my DFI and ASUS boards, so i stopped trying and connect a floppy to the computer when i need it. Also need it for adjusting AAM, but rarely. Didn´t get that working thru windows either.

[shimq1]

You can flash the BIOS of a DFI motherboard by using the Tmod BIOS CD from DFI-Street.

Link: http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22031

[frostedflakes]

Also, ASUS includes a Windows flash program on their motherboard driver CDs. I've flashed three ASUS boards with this utility and haven't had any problems.

[RDaneel]

But what will you do for optical drives with no PATA? The only SATA DVD+R that I've seen available is a BenQ (or is it Plex?) that doesn't get great reviews. There are hundreds of optical drives on Newegg, I think only 4 are available in SATA models. I totally agree that PATA should disappear, I just need more choice in CD/DVD readers/writers before I'll be comfortable buying a mobo with no PATA...

[Wedge]

GA-965P-DQ6

No mATX, only 4 usb (just use a hub), only 1 IEEE1394(a). what on earth do you need 5 fan headers for? I only have two fans in my PC, and one of those is in the PSU.

Question: What other use does a dual PCI-Express offer besides either SLI or Crossfire? Because, in this case, it can't be either of those since we are dealing with an Intel 965 chipset.


...and no offense to the original poster, but I had to share this one with you Napoleon Dynamite fans: funny

[autoboy]

Ummm, no onboard sound with only two PCI slots? My question is why do motherboards come with PCI-e x1 slots without the back cutout for running x4 or higher cards in them? This seems a no brainer for future proofing the boards. A PCI x4 slot with the back cut out is perfectly capable of running a graphics card full speed. This could come in handy if ATI enables physics on their cards. Also it can work if you want to run 4 monitors.

[GamingGod]

What would be really cool is if there was a spot cut out on the motherboard where you plug the video card so its flat with the mobo. and maybe even screws down to the tray. That would allow for thinner cases, sure they have those 90 riser things, but I dont like those things.

[mattthemuppet]

where on earth are you going to put 8 SATA drives (HDD or OD) in a tiny mATX sized box and still keep them cool?

onboard sound (with digital out - SPDIF?) is important if there are a limited no. of PCI slots - if you don't need both slots you can always put a sound card in.

onboard graphics is useful if you don't intend to game, as it cuts power consumption and cost. I wonder when the next gen of IGP from the card makers is going to come out? Also, as more PCI-E peripheral cards come out, you could always use the PCI-E x16 slot for something other than a graphics card.

other than that, I agree with pretty much everything else

[Slaugh]

I don't think you'll find all these features on a single mATX board... But if you're going for an ATX board and have a lot of money to spend, these new monsters from Asus are feature-packed:

• Asus M2N32 WS (Professional Main Station Series Motherboard)
  - AMD Socket AM2
  - NVIDIA nForce® 590 SLI™ MCP
  - 4 x Dual Channel DDR2-800/667/533
  - 2 x 64 bit PCI-X, 2 x PCI-E x16, support NVIDIA SLI at full x16, x16 speed
  - 10 x SATA3.0 Gb/s including one external port
  - Dual Gigabit LAN
  - ADI AD1988B 8-CH HD Audio
  - 8-Phase Power design
  - Heatpipe Mechanism & Stack Cool 2
• Asus Crosshair (Republic of Gamers Series Motherboard)
  - AMD Socket AM2
  - NVIDIA nForce® 590 SLI™ MCP
  - 4 x Dual Channel DDR2 800/667/533
  - 2 x PCIe x16, x16 SLI support
  - 8 x SATA3.0 Gb/s including two external ports
  - Dual Gigabit LAN
  - SupremeFX 8 channels sound and Array Mic
  - 8-Phase EL Cap-less Power Designs
  - Heatpipe Mechanism

Here are some pictures of the Asus Crosshair:



(Click on a picture for a larger view)

[pedro]

You can flash the BIOS of a DFI motherboard by using the Tmod BIOS CD from DFI-Street.

Very handy CD that - it's what I used and it worked a charm! Also great HDD cleaners on it. Big-ups Tmod!

As for 'Deport Pedro'...

shimq1 - I think that should have read PCI-E x16 for graphics - whoops.

mattthemuppet - the 8 SATA II ports are so that you can have 2 x optical, 4 x HDD and 2 x eSATA. I agree that it's overkill. I'd be happy with six (or even five).

jaganath - five fan headers are for: CPU, chipset, front intake, back outlet, side fan. See the Silverstone Temjin TJ08.

Thanks for all the posts guys... I thought I'd get flamed for such heretical views.

[klankymen]

Lemme just comment on how these would be relevant for me, I guess everyone has different needs


What I want

mATX layout - sure, why not, allthough I'm happy with my case size
socket AM2 or 775 - you need a motherboard for every socket...
2 x DDR2 DIMMs - again, why not, I too haven't used more than 2 DIMMs since back in the days when running 2x32 and 2x64 was cutting edge
1 x GigE network adapter - don't have a gigE network in my house, but I definitely see the need for this
8 x USB - my A8N-SLI Premium has around 4 + 8 optional i think, and I'm not complaining though I only use 5
2 x IEEE 1394 (b is possible but this is too forward thinking I fear) - once again, my Premium has 2, but not sure if they're 800 or not, not like I ever use em
8 x SATA II - I have 8 sATA ports, but use 1, then again it's not like they take up much space, so what the heck
1 x PCI-E 8x - 16x, I guess, you definitely need 1 of these, 2 is unnecessary
2 x PCI - yep, I know I still use normal PCI, so I'm cool with that
5 x fan headers - ummm, no. chipset fan is unnecessary and inacceptible from a SPCR point of view, not to mention 3 case fans, I have 1.... but I could certainly see the need for 2 with more HDDs... that said 3 headers would be enough, and I haven't seen any mobos with less than 4 headers anytime recently
switch to reset BIOS - no jumpers - +$0.40, whatever
a passive heatsink on the chipset - so what's the chipset fan header for? but I'm certain everyone agrees on the urgency of a passive chipset HS here

What I don't want

onboard graphics - ummm, I don't know how much extra cost is added by adding onboard video to a board, but you can always just disable it...
onboard audio - I need this, don't see the need to waste a whole PCI slot, or spend lotsa cash on a USB sound card, if the one on my motherboard is perfectly fine... in my eyes that would be like demanding no onboard LAN, so you could buy a better NIC
floppy port - I use this on my old computer which doesn't support sATA out of the box, but rather requires a driver, on my new computer the connector is superfluous and has never been used, so I agree
PATA ports - keep one so you can attach an old HDD or an optical drive, but I no longer see the need for the typical 2 ports
serial port - agree
parallel port - agree
game port - I have a game port controller, so until I spend extra cash on a new USB one, minds as well include the optional bracket

[DanW]

a passive heatsink on the chipset - so what's the chipset fan header for? but I'm certain everyone agrees on the urgency of a passive chipset HS here

aparently they like fans on the chipsets if there isn't enough air movement.

[pedro]

Lemme just comment on how these would be relevant for me, I guess everyone has different needs


What I want

2 x IEEE 1394 (b is possible but this is too forward thinking I fear) - once again, my Premium has 2, but not sure if they're 800 or not, not like I ever use em
5 x fan headers - ummm, no. chipset fan is unnecessary and inacceptible from a SPCR point of view, not to mention 3 case fans, I have 1.... but I could certainly see the need for 2 with more HDDs... that said 3 headers would be enough, and I haven't seen any mobos with less than 4 headers anytime recently
a passive heatsink on the chipset - so what's the chipset fan header for? but I'm certain everyone agrees on the urgency of a passive chipset HS here

What I don't want

onboard graphics - ummm, I don't know how much extra cost is added by adding onboard video to a board, but you can always just disable it...
onboard audio - I need this, don't see the need to waste a whole PCI slot, or spend lotsa cash on a USB sound card, if the one on my motherboard is perfectly fine... in my eyes that would be like demanding no onboard LAN, so you could buy a better NIC

Nice post klankymen.

A few things.

- I need Firewire for my audio box and people's iPods when they want to plug 'em in. Firewire is also heavily used on camcorders so it would be a good idea to have them on any potential HTPC mobo, and particularly 1394b ones. Also handy to have two as then you can have access either at the back or front of the case.

- Five fan headers. Yeah, this is probably not ideal for the silent crew. It is for me tho' as I'm not after silence - just nice quiet and cool components. I also think it's important to have at least a small amount of airflow over these heatsinks we put in our cases, even at the expense of a little noise. What the hell, let's make it four fan headers.

- I agree with the onboard audio/gfx thing. Just give me some onboard gfx RAM if you're gonna give me onboard gfx.