1st DIY build: Suggestions/advice?

SittingSam · Post by **SittingSam** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:37 am

Hi everybody!

I started browsing the SPCR site and forums a month back and decided that it was about time that I registered. I am new to "quiet computing" and I have found a lot of useful information on the SPCR site and here on the forums which I have used as a basis for the choosing of the components that will be used in my upcoming system (listed here):

Case: Antec P180B
Motherboard: Asus P5W DH Deluxe
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo (Conroe) Model E6700 (2.667GHz)
RAM: Kingston 2x1024 MB DDR2, PC5400 DDR2-667
Video: GV-NX76T256D-RH, GeForce 7600GT, 256MB GDDR3, Passive Cooling
PSU: Seasonic S12-500
HDD: Western Digital 160.0 GB - Caviar RE (RAID Edition)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Ninja Plus
Optical drive: Plextor PX-760SA/T3KB, DVDÂ±RW, DVD+Rx18, SATA, Internal, Dual Layer, 2 MB, Black, Bulk

I aim for a quiet gaming computer.

Any comments/opinions/suggestions regarding the components would be very appreciated. Also, if you know that some of the components aren't compatible with each other please do tell

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Note: The reason I chose the passively cooled GeForce 7600GT from Gigabyte was: 1) It is relatively cheap which is good because I am going to replace it once the DX10 cards hit the market - 2) It is passively cooled and therefore quiet (right?

).
Note2: According to this article over at bit-tech.net the Core 2 Duo E6700 should have a TDP of only 65W.

For this future system I have some questions:

1. Will I need to buy extensions cables for some power cables so that they can reach the motherboard? If yes, then for which power cables should I buy extension cables for?
2. The Scythe Ninja weighs 815g. According to Zalman the maximum weight specified for socket 775 (which the Core 2 Duo uses) is 450g. Should/can I do something to relieve the socket/motherboard of some of the burden?
3. In the light of the second note: would it be safe/sensible to cool the processor passively with the Ninja?

Thanks in advance

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stromgald · Post by **stromgald** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:29 am

With such a moderate power CPU and so few drives/cards, I'm not sure if you need a P180 and 500W PSU. The 500W PSU might be good for futureproofing your system, but I would use a P150 or maybe one of those new Antec NSK4400 cases for your system. The additional cooling capacity of the P180 is unnecessary IMO, and I always prefer more portable/compact machines.

For your questions:
1) I don't know, but I think the P180 is excessive anyways.

2) The Scythe Ninja is quite heavy. Right now I'm cooling AMD Athlon64 Winchester processors (TDP of 67W, IIRC) in my two systems with Zalman CNPS 7000AlCu (~415g), and they're fairly quiet. Unless you really want to push for a passive system, I'd look in the recommended heatsinks list on this site for a lighter solution.

3) It would be safe to cool that processor passively with a Ninja as long as the case has good airflow, but I'd be careful about moving the computer with that thing attached.

Post by **NeilBlanchard** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 8:11 am

Welcome to SPCR!

Personally, I would use the Antec Solo, rather than the P180. And, an S12 430 PS would be plenty powerful enough, and probably a 300-350watt unit would be more that enough...

vfrex · Post by **vfrex** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:31 am

I happen to think that the Antec P150 is a great deal with the 430 watt power supply that they include. The case itself reviewed very well here at SPCR as did the powersupply (outside of some compatibility issues). If you live in the US, you can get it delivered for ~$150. Compare that to the P180. You won't get it shipped to you for less than $120-130 and still have to cover the cost of a quiet power supply. For something in the 400-450 watt range, you're talking $70-80.

I mean, between the processor and that motherboard, maybe budget isn't your thing

. But still, why a SATA optical drive? I don't know what your source is, but I'm seeing $110. If it is about airflow, don't rounded IDE cables help with that?

SittingSam · Post by **SittingSam** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:37 am

Hi again and thanks for the advice you guys provided! (And thanks for the greeting as well, Neil)

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The reason I chose the 500W PSU was make the system futureproof.

As per your advice I will instead of the P180 go for the Antec SOLO case - this way I will also avoid having to think about getting extension cables for certain power cables, right?

Also, I have (almost) decided to go for a Zalman CNPS 8000 because it is relatively light and quiet (please correct me if I'm wrong... haven't read anything about it on SPCR

) and because it faces towards the motherboard so it will (hopefully) supply some VRM cooling (which I just recently learnt about (I had actually overlooked the 'Recommended Heatsinks' in the recommended section. Thanks for the heads-up, stromgald)).

I have considered a Thermalright SI-120 with a 120mm Nexus fan on as an alternative to the Zalman. Will it be as cool as the Zalman and provide decent VRM cooling yet be more quiet?

To vfrex: The sole reason that I chose the SATA Plextor drive was that I had heard that Plextor had a reputation for making quiet optical drives and because I saw endpcnoise.com use a similar drive in one of their systems. I don't know a lot about optical drives and IDE vs SATA so if the choice is bad (meaning I can get a quieter optical drive for less or the same amount of money) please let me know

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vfrex · Post by **vfrex** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:14 am

I haven't really seen many reviews of the CNPS 8000, but I would imagine based on its role in the Zalman's product line that it would perform below the 9500. Look at the table at the bottom of the 9500 review:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article267-page4.html

The XP-120 is on par with the Zalman 9500 in cooling/noise level. I can't imagine that that 8000 will perform as well as the 9500 in that metric, and so the XP-120 should be able to beat out the 8000.

I'll let someone who knows what they are talking about go into that more though.

As far as the optical drives go, I was under the impression that silent versions don't really exist. In fact, I just went to endpcnoise.com, clicked on the "quiet optical drives" link, and got

Sorry, no matches

SittingSam · Post by **SittingSam** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:19 am

vfrex wrote:I haven't really seen many reviews of the CNPS 8000, but I would imagine based on its role in the Zalman's product line that it would perform below the 9500. Look at the table at the bottom of the 9500 review:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article267-page4.html

The XP-120 is on par with the Zalman 9500 in cooling/noise level. I can't imagine that that 8000 will perform as well as the 9500 in that metric, and so the XP-120 should be able to beat out the 8000.

I'll let someone who knows what they are talking about go into that more though.

As far as the optical drives go, I was under the impression that silent versions don't really exist. In fact, I just went to endpcnoise.com, clicked on the "quiet optical drives" link, and got
Sorry, no matches

Thanks for the advice on the cooler.

As for the optical drive thing: In the sticky in the Necomers Briefing Room the author has stated:

10. Quiet CD-ROM/DVD-ROM
Don't know. Use the search function. I've had good experience with recent Plextors though. At full speed any drive will be loud. Programs like Nero Drivespeed allows you to slow down your CD-ROM/DVD drives to an acceptable acoustic level. There have only been a couple of reviews of optical drives under the storage section.

Also, I saw that Endpcnoise.com used a plextor in one of their quiet PC systems. I too get "no matches" when I click 'Quiet Optical Drives'.

Again, thanks for your advice.

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:23 am

As a longtime Plextor user, I was kind of disappointed in my latest purchase (a PX-716SA SATA). Plextools is a nice software package, but it's really not worth the premium over drives with comparable performance/features. And, it doesn't even read DVD-RAM's which would have been nice since I have a DVD-VCR combo and use that format.

I guess if you don't care about DVD-RAM and you like PlexTools and the SATA interface, it might be okay.

vfrex wrote:If it is about airflow, don't rounded IDE cables help with that?

Rounded cables don't comply with the IDE spec and Windows will often downgrade the speed of your IDE bus (without telling you) because of too many transfer errors. Check your PATA IDE controller in Device Manager.

I'd recommend using the shortest flat-ribbon IDE cable possible and taking your time with the proper cable management techniques for the best performance. A flat cable will look like a line if the air flows from side to side.

Gojira-X · Post by **Gojira-X** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:41 am

IIRC (from reviews in cdfreaks), Asus make very quiet drives, but they are ide only.

As for the hdd, why the RE (Raid edition) version of the WD Caviar?
Wouldnt the SE be enough?
Are you planning a RAID array in the future?

SittingSam · Post by **SittingSam** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:37 am

Thanks for the replies!

@jackylman: as I said I don't know a lot about optical drives. I don't even know the difference between IDE and SATA drives except from the different cables that they use. Would you advise me to choose another optical drive? The only thing I want of my optical drive is quiet and good performance (I mean decent reading speed - writing speed isn't all that important to me).

@Gojira-X: Thanks for the heads-up. I will try to read some reviews of some Asus drives tomorrow.

As for the HDD: I didn't know that RE meant Raid Edition - I just thought it was a newer version than the SE edition. I am not planning on a RAID array in the future so I guess SE would be fine for me, right?

As you might see I'm quite inexperienced with these kind of things so I'm very grateful for your replies!

El Doug · Post by **El Doug** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:44 am

u still may want to consider the quieter S12-430 or even 380. Your current rig would not tax either of those - as for future proofing, power usage is on a downward trend

Howard · Post by **Howard** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:08 pm

Sam - have you checked out the Samsung SP2504C? Is it out of your budget?

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:33 pm

SittingSam wrote:as I said I don't know a lot about optical drives. I don't even know the difference between IDE and SATA drives except from the different cables that they use. Would you advise me to choose another optical drive? The only thing I want of my optical drive is quiet and good performance (I mean decent reading speed - writing speed isn't all that important to me).

Well, Plextor drives are (relatively) quiet. I was just saying that you shouldn't pay the price premium for a Plextor drive just because it has a SATA interface or because of the Plextor name. If you can find a drive that's as quiet and has a PATA interface, get that one instead because it will probably be substantially cheaper.

nici · Post by **nici** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:00 pm

I like my Samsung DVD drive, mainly because it seems to spin slow when listening to music from a CD wihtout any additional software. My LG and NEC spin full speed when i open "my computer"...

Any software to control speed doesnÂ´t work on the lg or nec either, have not tried with the samsung. CanÂ´t remember the exact model number, but it's a black bulk packed drive wich supports lightscribe(useless imo).

dfrost · Post by **dfrost** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 6:09 pm

SittingSam wrote:I have considered a Thermalright SI-120 with a 120mm Nexus fan on as an alternative to the Zalman. Will it be as cool as the Zalman and provide decent VRM cooling yet be more quiet?

I used a Zalman CNPS 7000-Cu, first stock (with Fanmate), then modified with a quieter, isolated fan.

I gained substantial improvements in cooling and noise reduction compared to the Zalman when I switched to a Thermalright XP-120 and Papst fan (not as quiet as Nexus, but greater cooling capacity). The SI-120 performance should be very similar to the XP-120, and I don't know how the cooling requirements of your suggested Conroe CPU compares to my Northwoods (TDP =~92W). A Nexus fan might work just fine for you. Nice thing about an XP/SI is how easy it is to switch fans.

Try the fan blowing both directions (also extremely easy). I found that blowing away from the motherboard gave better VRM temps for my particular system.

Zalman make nice products, but you'll find that around SPCR, they are not known for particularly quiet fans on their cooling devices.

SittingSam · Post by **SittingSam** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:34 am

Thanks for the new replies!

@El Doug: My current rig might not tax the S12-430. I think it would tax the 380 though. But say I replaced my video card with a GeForce 7800 GTX style card, then it would come pretty close to the 430W. Say I replaced it with a 7950 GX2 and I would be exceeding the 430W. I would rather futureproof the system with the 500W version. It looks like power usage is on a downward trend when it comes to CPUs, but when it comes to video cards I'm not so sure about it

.

@Howard: I have just recently checked it out. On the hardware portal that linked to it people had given it some rather negative comments regarding it's noise level and temperature. I will read a review of it before I make the final decision, but it's most certainly not out of my budget

.

@jackylman: Thanks for the advice!

@nici: I have heard that Samsung makes quiet optical drives. Can you recommend a specific drive? I'll try to get some more information from some reviews of some Samsung drives if it's possible.

@dfrost: Thank you very much for the information and the advice! I will go for the SI-120 then!

stromgald · Post by **stromgald** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:02 pm

Looks like lots of good suggestions so far. I'll throw in my take on things, but since its been over 9 months since my last build I may be a little out of it.

1) Isn't the 7900GX2 an SLI solution squeezed on one board? IIRC, there's two graphics chips, thats why it consumes so much power. If you stick with 1 GPU solutions the 430W Antec should be plenty.

2) Personally, I'd try the Zalman CNPS7000. A Conroe processor doesnt produce much heat, so I think it should handle it quietly. If you want extreme silence, Nexus fans are the way to go, and the SI-120 is a good inexpensive solution for that.

3) For your optical drive needs, I can vouch for the NEC 3540 (now 3550) drive as being very quiet at 8X (I use Nero DriveSpeed to slow it down). At 16X I can hear it up to five feet away, but at 8X, I have to strain to hear it when I'm sitting at my desk next to it (1.5 ft). The BenQ 1640/1650 class of DVD writers are supposed to be similar, so I'd get whichever is cheaper.

El Doug · Post by **El Doug** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:45 pm

SittingSam wrote: @El Doug: My current rig might not tax the S12-430. I think it would tax the 380 though. But say I replaced my video card with a GeForce 7800 GTX style card, then it would come pretty close to the 430W. Say I replaced it with a 7950 GX2 and I would be exceeding the 430W. I would rather futureproof the system with the 500W version. It looks like power usage is on a downward trend when it comes to CPUs, but when it comes to video cards I'm not so sure about it .

Well, I run SLI 7800gtx on a phantom 350 - bare that in mind when you make your selection. The 430 seems like ur best bet, if only to make u less nervous. But the added noise of the 500 is not worth your time, as you will not consume that much power

SittingSam · Post by **SittingSam** » Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:22 am

Okay stromgald and El Doug, you have reasoned me into buying the S12-430 instead of the 500

.

Thanks to all of you for your great replies. You have been a great help to me! In a weeks time I'll order the components for the system

.