Check it out:
Source: Matbe (french)
New Zalman 600W Modular PSU
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee, Devonavar
New Zalman 600W Modular PSU
Zalman has unveiled a new modular 600W PSU, the Zalman ZM-600 HP. It is ATX v2.2 and SLI certified. It's cooled by a 120mm fan just like any other PSU but this one has heatpipes! Yup, heatpipes and a radiator Check it out:
Source: Matbe (french)
Check it out:Source: Matbe (french)
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The Internal
- Posts: 38
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Well, like Saribro said, the wattage is a bit OTT for most SPCRer's, also it is SLI capable, but official SPCR position is that SLI is silly (just get a fast single card); also, if they have gone to heatpipes they must be worried about the cooling, so maybe the PSU is not that efficient? Also putting the radiator right in the way of the grill will impede airflow, fan may have to ramp up, but this is all just speculation, my 2¢.rpsgc wrote:Hmm... not too much interest in this I see
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Tibors
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The PSU probably doesn't need the heatpipe thing.
Somebody at the marketing department saw that empty spot that most 120mm fanned PSU's have, because they use the same PCB's as 80mm fanned PSU's. Then he thought; what to do with it that makes us stand out. Yes, let's do something with heatpipes, because that is cool.
Most SPCR people don't fall for useless fancy gadgets, also called "Bling".
This product is for their customers who also bought the Fatal1ty products, it's not for the silence crowd.
Somebody at the marketing department saw that empty spot that most 120mm fanned PSU's have, because they use the same PCB's as 80mm fanned PSU's. Then he thought; what to do with it that makes us stand out. Yes, let's do something with heatpipes, because that is cool.
Most SPCR people don't fall for useless fancy gadgets, also called "Bling".
This product is for their customers who also bought the Fatal1ty products, it's not for the silence crowd.
That's the problem. It's always the bling-buyers that get the good stuff, us silence crowd are left without the fancy cooling or the modular cabling or the whatnots. "Here's your 80+, bland, grey, default box" ... :(Tibors wrote:This product is for their customers who also bought the Fatal1ty products, it's not for the silence crowd.
Some parts of that look very similar to FSP Epsilon/OCZ gameXstream... We know FSP makes damn lot of PSUs for other brands so maybe they used cheaper PCB (colour of it hints such) and added little more HSF fins, that heatpipe system and modular cables.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/ ... dup_6.html
http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews05/gamexstream_5
I guess it's like with architects who never seem to use what they design.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/ ... dup_6.html
http://www.bigbruin.com/reviews05/gamexstream_5
Exactly, other good/bad example are Asus sticker plates on top of chipset heatsinks in Asus motherboards... which should be very effective at sabotaging cooling capability!Tibors wrote:The PSU probably doesn't need the heatpipe thing.
Somebody at the marketing department saw that empty spot that most 120mm fanned PSU's have, because they use the same PCB's as 80mm fanned PSU's. Then he thought; what to do with it that makes us stand out. Yes, let's do something with heatpipes, because that is cool.
I guess it's like with architects who never seem to use what they design.
Well, if you want, you can always give your "default box" some DIY blingThat's the problem. It's always the bling-buyers that get the good stuff, us silence crowd are left without the fancy cooling or the modular cabling or the whatnots. "Here's your 80+, bland, grey, default box" ...
; ie spray it silver, LED fans, that sort of thing.For a modular PSU, have you ruled out the Enermax Liberty 400W?
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Chris Chan
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- Location: Michigan
IMO the heatpipe setup is suboptimal, because the fins are too tightly spaced, so a lot of airflow might bypass them.
I have thought of a similar concept about a year ago, but with the larger fins, wider spaced, that would have covered almost all the exhaust area, forcing the airflow through the fins.
I'm not saying that Zalman's is not good enough to cool that PSU, it could be just fine. But with a better setup they could have run the fan 10-15% lower, which could be ~2 dba.
I have thought of a similar concept about a year ago, but with the larger fins, wider spaced, that would have covered almost all the exhaust area, forcing the airflow through the fins.
I'm not saying that Zalman's is not good enough to cool that PSU, it could be just fine. But with a better setup they could have run the fan 10-15% lower, which could be ~2 dba.
its sad when the marketing team overlaps responsibilities with the engineering team. 
really...how much help can those heatpipes/fins have?!
The air has to go:
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hot CPU/GPU air
Wasn't the whole concept of the heatpipe to dissipate heat DIRECTLY from its source, like if it was attached directly to a CPU/GPU?
even if the heatpipe was cooling components within the PSU, the fan blowing hot air into the unit would just make temps warmer.
sorry for the simpleton logic...but just doesn't make sense to my simple mind.
really...how much help can those heatpipes/fins have?!
The air has to go:
<-----
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hot CPU/GPU air
Wasn't the whole concept of the heatpipe to dissipate heat DIRECTLY from its source, like if it was attached directly to a CPU/GPU?
even if the heatpipe was cooling components within the PSU, the fan blowing hot air into the unit would just make temps warmer.
sorry for the simpleton logic...but just doesn't make sense to my simple mind.
The main thing causing instability in power supplies is overheating. So yes, those heatpipes are more than just a marketing tool. Their placement means exhaust air goes right through them.
As someone said, Zalman is known to be made by Fortron: http://www.jonnyguru.com/SMPS_UL.htm
...so it should be a good PSU.
The problem is, the placement of those heatpipes means the PSU is oversized and with the modular connectors, this will cause problems in some cases, such as X-Qpacks or MicroFlys. Like mine!
As someone said, Zalman is known to be made by Fortron: http://www.jonnyguru.com/SMPS_UL.htm
...so it should be a good PSU.
The problem is, the placement of those heatpipes means the PSU is oversized and with the modular connectors, this will cause problems in some cases, such as X-Qpacks or MicroFlys. Like mine!
I'm not understanding some posts here. First, how do you know the use of heatpipe is marketing department's decision? Second, how do you know whether the heatpipe helps or not? We should wait for the reviews. Third, this is not the only PSU you're forced to buy. If anything, this is an addition to already existing gazillion PSUs. What I'm trying to say is you have many choices and the decision is yours. No need to be dramatic as if this was the end of the world.
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frankgehry
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Using heatpipes seems like a much better design decision than using an additional fan as in the m12. The heatpipes work all the time; the 60mm fan activates at high temperatures. Plus the nmb-mat fan in the zalman zm460 as tested by spcr is smoother than the adda in the seasonic m12. The same nmb-mat series is used in the zalman modular.
They could easily fit regular heatsinks equal to the size of the heatpipe heatsink, though it would increase restriction. But that heatpipe thing also increses restriction. You have to find the right compromize betweeen heatsink size and restriction to match the heat output and the fan used. So it's basically a thing to make it stand out, wich would make it a marketing thing.
It might well be a great PSU, but it would very likely work just as good if not better with slightly larger normal heatsinks, but it would not get as much interest on forums as this heatpipe PSU does. I doubt this thread would exist if they had chosen to use normal heatsinks, even if it was otherwise identical and performed equal to this.
It might well be a great PSU, but it would very likely work just as good if not better with slightly larger normal heatsinks, but it would not get as much interest on forums as this heatpipe PSU does. I doubt this thread would exist if they had chosen to use normal heatsinks, even if it was otherwise identical and performed equal to this.
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frankgehry
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The problem with 120mm power supplies is that cooling is not evenly distributed among the hot components. That's why you see interior vents on seasonics and enhance models, 60mm fans on the seasonic m12, and heatpipes on the zalman. Heatpipes are appropriate because they remove heat from one location and place the cooling elements where the air flow is adequate. Larger heatsinks won't help if they don't get enough air flow or cannot be placed on the hot components.
Why use heatpipes if you can always use larger heatsinks?
Why use heatpipes if you can always use larger heatsinks?
Well, actually heatpipes very propably require certain amount of temperature difference to operate.frankgehry wrote:Using heatpipes seems like a much better design decision than using an additional fan as in the m12. The heatpipes work all the time; the 60mm fan activates at high temperatures.
Also it cools only rectifying components and doesn't help with dead airflow zones in front end of PSU, for example that big main capacitor is still going to get warmed much more in Zalman regardless of heatpipes because preventing temperature rise in that area just needs airflow which is helped considerably even by small, low rpm (for small fan) fan turning on when heat production increases.
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Tibors
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And that is exactly why it is evident that this heatpipe is a marketing gimmick. It's starting point is the one heatsink that is already ideally placed in the airflow. Not some component that otherwise would not get enough cooling.frankgehry wrote:Heatpipes are appropriate because they remove heat from one location and place the cooling elements where the air flow is adequate.
On top of that it's end point is in a narrow finned radiator that is placed across the airflow path (probably severely restricting it) in stead of one parallel to the airflow path. If they had made it a little longer so it would be outside the back-end of the PSU, then it would get interesting.
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frankgehry
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The nmb-mat fan has already been tested in the spcr zalman zm460 review and it was noted to be smoother and quieter than the adda used in seasonics at low speeds. Argue with spcr if you want.
As far as heatpipe placement is concerned, it looks like air flows between the fins whether or not air is moving perpendicular to the fan or in the direction of the exhaust. Furthermore, if you want to minimize the efficiency of any fan, just put a couple rows of heatsinks immediatley in front of it. The fortron/zalman design seems to have much more space allowing the fan to operate with less restriction.
With the seasonic m12, you have a 60mm front opening with a fan that's probably off most of the time - just like a smartpower 2.0. Most of the time only the 80mm intake fan is turning exhausting warm air between the exhaust fan blades.
As far as heatpipe placement is concerned, it looks like air flows between the fins whether or not air is moving perpendicular to the fan or in the direction of the exhaust. Furthermore, if you want to minimize the efficiency of any fan, just put a couple rows of heatsinks immediatley in front of it. The fortron/zalman design seems to have much more space allowing the fan to operate with less restriction.
With the seasonic m12, you have a 60mm front opening with a fan that's probably off most of the time - just like a smartpower 2.0. Most of the time only the 80mm intake fan is turning exhausting warm air between the exhaust fan blades.
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frankgehry
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They're both attemps, successful or not, to make quiet high power 120mm power supplies. Do all 120mm power supplies have dead spots in front that need extra cooling?
According to seasonic, that's the function of the 60mm fan. The fortron version has a heatsink across the front of the case, so I assume the zalman does as well, although I can't see it in the photos.
Spcr, in defense of s12 front vents, claims that seasonic is just addressing a problem inherent with all 120mm power supplies. If this problem exists in fortrons and zalmans, then I'm assuming the heatpipes are helping to meet certain cooling and noise requirements, but not performing the equivalent function as the m12 60mm fan.
According to seasonic, that's the function of the 60mm fan. The fortron version has a heatsink across the front of the case, so I assume the zalman does as well, although I can't see it in the photos.
Spcr, in defense of s12 front vents, claims that seasonic is just addressing a problem inherent with all 120mm power supplies. If this problem exists in fortrons and zalmans, then I'm assuming the heatpipes are helping to meet certain cooling and noise requirements, but not performing the equivalent function as the m12 60mm fan.