Chris Thomson's 3rd DIY OC'd rig -- a Core 2 Duo this time

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Rutar
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Post by Rutar » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:09 am

cmthomson wrote:
The 7900GT is totally underpowered.
On the contrary, it is massive overkill for 99% of what I do.
The DVD-RW...
Yes it's noisy at higher speeds. I burn CDs at 8x, which is silent. The PATA cable is indeed a pain to route, and unreliable if not folded perfectly.
I would be interested as well how ACs MX-1 does against AS5 on one of the crappy Conroe heatspreaders since MX-1 seems to be designed to correct such flaws on AC heatsinks.
"Crappy heatspreader" :?: :?: Mine is flat and works very well.
I kinda figured that with a 7900GT, there was a need for 3D performance as there are already passive retail solution available for the 7600 cards.

I was told that SATA cables were the ones that cause problems when being folded too much. Maybe it's the case for all types of cables then.

One poster mentioned the problems with some heatspreaders from Intel.


I posted with the thought in mind that the author is a perfectionist (because of the replacement of all stock tim, the ducts and the cable management) and I am one myself (hence, perfectionist in a positive sense). 95% is just not good enough for me if 100% is available which is why I mention small things like the HDs, sure the Spinpoint P120 is good but the WD is better and doesn't cost that much more.


I also MIGHT have a definite answer to the Ultra120 vs Ninia debate.

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getart ... rticID=496

alfred
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Post by alfred » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:25 am

cmthomson wrote:Looks to me like you got an exceptionally good chip. Although I don't know what "standard voltage" is at 3400 MHz on a DQ6, do you?
Nice that the Ninja and the Crazy Cool are compatible.
Nominal CPU voltage for the Conroe E6700 is 1.34Volt; using Gigabyte's EasyTune5 utility mine displays 1.35Volt. By "standard" I meant I fixed the CPU at a voltage labelled "standard" in the BIOS (Ctrl-F1 parameters). You're probably right, it seems I got lucky with the E6700 that was delivered to me : when overvolting the CPU and using Ninja + 120mm Nexus fan @12V I was able to get stable setup at ±3800 MHz; but I felt happier with a near-inaudible setup @ 3400 MHz. My goal was a system using a single 120mm Nexus fan @5~7Volt; it seems everything is staying cool enough when running CPU+VGA+HDD benchmarks for two or three hours, however I don't have any way to read the SMART temps from the two Samsung HD401LJ hard disk drives. The main noise source is the undervolted Nexus fan.

Image

mattthemuppet
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Post by mattthemuppet » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:17 pm

cmthomson - blimey, never heard of a TV card fail from over heating! I'm surprised that no heatsinks were included if it dissipates that much heat under load.

Also, would it be possible/ worth sealing the centre/ VGA duct better? As it is it looks like the fan can draw air from the MB compartment, particularly if the impedence of the middle case fan filter is higher than the Kama bay. Not sure it'd make much difference, but might be worth trying. I'd also take a hacksaw to the Condor heatsink and cut some grooves parallel to airflow, but that's just me :)

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:52 pm

mattthemuppet wrote:cmthomson - blimey, never heard of a TV card fail from over heating! I'm surprised that no heatsinks were included if it dissipates that much heat under load.
I don't think it was designed to go into a case with near-zero airflow directly below a toaster-oven graphics card...
Also, would it be possible/ worth sealing the centre/ VGA duct better? As it is it looks like the fan can draw air from the MB compartment, particularly if the impedence of the middle case fan filter is higher than the Kama bay. Not sure it'd make much difference, but might be worth trying.
I did this in my old system. In the new one, the two fans in the upper half draw more combined CFM than the one in the bottom half, so there won't be any flow from the NB to the video. I did seal up the downwind side of the video chamber so it would have positve pressure, since its exhaust outlets are relatively restricted.
I'd also take a hacksaw to the Condor heatsink and cut some grooves parallel to airflow, but that's just me :)
Yikes!

I'd have to wonder though: would the resulting pin-fin pattern be better? I suppose it might be...

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Tue Oct 03, 2006 4:02 pm

alfred wrote:
cmthomson wrote:Looks to me like you got an exceptionally good chip.
Nominal CPU voltage for the Conroe E6700 is 1.34Volt; using Gigabyte's EasyTune5 utility mine displays 1.35Volt. By "standard" I meant I fixed the CPU at a voltage labelled "standard" in the BIOS (Ctrl-F1 parameters).
Well, sure, I guessed that. But most BIOSs silently bump the voltage at higher clocks. Since your onboard sensor is reading 1.35V, there is some amount of bump involved (Vdroop is typically .05-.10); I was wondering what voltage the VRM was being told to output.
I don't have any way to read the SMART temps from the two Samsung HD401LJ hard disk drives.
SpeedFan and Everest both provide SMART monitoring.

alfred
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Post by alfred » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:27 pm

cmthomson, unfortunately I'm using a RAID-0 array from 2*Samsung HD401LJ on the ICH8R...

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:39 pm

alfred wrote:cmthomson, unfortunately I'm using a RAID-0 array from 2*Samsung HD401LJ on the ICH8R...
Sorry to hear that. I went the other way: AHCI/NCQ on ICH7.

Poodle
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Post by Poodle » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:06 pm

I'm gonna switch the Vm-102 to the new Tr Hr-03. It has the fins in the right direction aswell but is bigger than vm.

EndoSteel
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Post by EndoSteel » Wed Oct 04, 2006 11:44 am

cmthomson
>> The Condor cools the GPU very well
>> GPU-°C : 105

Does it, really? :) I think you could have achieved the same temps with an ordinary VM-101.

BTW, 7900GT's heat dissipation is not even close to 95W you've mentioned (i guess you've confused it with a GTX). A moderately overclocked card like yours emits about 65W.

noneedforaname
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Post by noneedforaname » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:34 pm

cmthomson wrote:My old system maxed out at 327W, the new one maxes out at 230W, both measured at the wall. A P500 has lots of headroom.
So a 430W PSU wouldn't be a problem then?
I'm considering buying almost the same system, but I was thinking of getting a Seasonic 430W instead (and an Antec Solo). It'd be good to have some advice though, whether it would work or not.

Thanks!

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Post by Poodle » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:40 pm

noneedforaname wrote:
cmthomson wrote:My old system maxed out at 327W, the new one maxes out at 230W, both measured at the wall. A P500 has lots of headroom.
So a 430W PSU wouldn't be a problem then?
I'm considering buying almost the same system, but I was thinking of getting a Seasonic 430W instead (and an Antec Solo). It'd be good to have some advice though, whether it would work or not.

Thanks!

No problem. You will still have some nice headroom (as long as you don't go Crossfire with a couple of x1950xtx.) :)

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:56 pm

EndoSteel wrote:cmthomson
>> The Condor cools the GPU very well
>> GPU-°C : 105

Does it, really? :) I think you could have achieved the same temps with an ordinary VM-101.

BTW, 7900GT's heat dissipation is not even close to 95W you've mentioned (i guess you've confused it with a GTX). A moderately overclocked card like yours emits about 65W.
Um, so you pick out the worst number from an entire table? That temp was at essentially zero airflow.

I had a VM-101 before I got the Condor. The Condor is 10-20 cooler at similar fan speeds, with considerably less elaborate ducting. If I wanted to expend the effort, I could direct some of the airflow more precisely onto the Condor fins (which I had to do with the VM-101) and get even lower temperatures, but the simple chamber approach worked well enough.

No, I'm not confused. The eVGA 7900 GT KO SC is no ordinary 7900GT. In addition to being overclocked, it is overvolted (from 1.2 to 1.4V) when in 3D mode. This boosts its power consumption to 95W. (V*V*F).

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:16 am

The eVGA 7900 GT KO SC is no ordinary 7900GT. In addition to being overclocked, it is overvolted (from 1.2 to 1.4V) when in 3D mode. This boosts its power consumption to 95W. (V*V*F).
Here is a table showing 7900GT power consumption at various clocks and volts:

http://sg.vr-zone.com/?i=3437&s=4

95W is probably not too far off the mark.

I really admire your build by the way, I don't think enough people have said that in this thread, especially the way you divided the case into clearly-defined thermal zones, no part of the build is undercooled according to its tolerances, and you have inaudibility also! The holy grail! :P

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:53 am

jaganath wrote:I really admire your build by the way...
Thanks! I'm glad someone likes it... :wink:

qviri
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Post by qviri » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:09 am

Wow, talk about a ham-fisted approach to silencing... Why don't you put a Prescott in there while you're at throwing money at the problem. I'm sure there's a $100 heatsink out there that can handle one. Three fans and two grommet-mounted P120s are inaudible? Yeah okay... maybe in California.

Just kidding BTW...

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:37 am

qviri wrote:Wow, talk about a ham-fisted approach to silencing... Why don't you put a Prescott in there while you're at throwing money at the problem. I'm sure there's a $100 heatsink out there that can handle one. Three fans and two grommet-mounted P120s are inaudible? Yeah okay... maybe in California.

Just kidding BTW...
Oh yeah?! You tellin' me you can hear it all the way from Ontario?

qviri
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Post by qviri » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:38 am

I can hear you tapping on your Blackberry, too!

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:49 am

qviri wrote:I can hear you tapping on your Blackberry, too!
Oh man. You must be the only guy on the planet who hasn't heard me bitch about how painful my RIM short is. You didn't notice I work for Nokia? :shock:

Mats
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Post by Mats » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:19 pm

I didn't say it before...
Great work, Chris! :D

I always liked the idea of a wall-of-fans in the middle of the case, instead of having fans in the front and back and on the heatsinks but no control of the airflow between them.

EndoSteel
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Post by EndoSteel » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:44 am

cmthomson
Um, so you pick out the worst number from an entire table? That temp was at essentially zero airflow.
I picked out the lowest fan speed - it's a silent pc review forum after all :).

P.S. Pardon me for not expressing my admiration but the concept is, actually, at least 5 years old so there's nothing revolutionary for me here.

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:45 am

the concept is, actually, at least 5 years old
Which concept? The separated thermal zones?

Bluefront
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Post by Bluefront » Fri Oct 06, 2006 2:31 am

This particular build proves again how many different ways there are to build a quiet machine. Due to the power requirements of the components, this computer will never be as quiet as some people will like.

The tight ducting of the Ninja, IMHO, is un-necessary, and negates the best qualities of that heatsink......namely it's ability to drawn in and expell exhaust from all angles. From my experiments with tight CPU ducts, I found they work well, but at a great cost of more noise. I'm running two machines with P4-3.4s (about 95w), and both use fanless Ninjas. The rear 120mm case fan is blowing inward on both, with only a loose fitting air deflector. These setups avoid the tight duct noise, and allow the other MB components to be cooled by the airflow from that one intake fan.

My approach will always be.....fewer fans are better. One or two fans blowing inward, sharing a single exhaust path, is the best way I found to avoid multiple fans and complicated ducting. This of course flies in the face of multiple thermal zones.....apparently the rage right now.

But again....a quiet and cool computer is the desired result. How you get there is up to you. :)

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Post by EndoSteel » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:15 am

jaganath
The separated thermal zones?
Yup.

noneedforaname
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Post by noneedforaname » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:20 am

Does it make a noticable difference to cut out the grill on the back of the case?

Mats
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Post by Mats » Fri Oct 06, 2006 5:27 am

noneedforaname wrote:Does it make a noticable difference to cut out the grill on the back of the case?
Probably not, since the fan speeds are so low, and the fact that they're not placed in the back, next to the grills (less turbulence).

jgollehon
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Post by jgollehon » Tue Oct 17, 2006 2:24 pm

Silicon Acoustics seems to be out of business. http://www.siliconacoustics.com/
Is there anywhere else to get something like the NoiseMagic NMT-3 out there? Or maybe another place to purchase them that I'm not finding?

Thanks,
-Jeremy

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:03 pm

jgollehon wrote:Silicon Acoustics seems to be out of business.

[any place to get NMT-3?]
Yeah, that's a bummer.

The Noise Magic site lists a bunch of distributers, but after searching several (and getting lots of 404's), there don't seem to be any outside Germany at the moment.

I did find a site that looked pretty customer friendly:
http://www.pc-world.de/pcwshop/catalog/ ... cts_id=636

Tephras
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Post by Tephras » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:03 pm

Others also had problems finding the NMT-3 in the US.

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:32 pm

A few weeks after my build was complete, it occurred to me that the HR-05 could probably be mounted using the clip from the stock north bridge heat sink. SPCR member pyogenes later confirmed that this is indeed the case. So put away the side-cutters and plyers; there is no need to modify the HR-05 or its attachment clip. Instead, use the stock motherboard clip. To remove it from the north bridge heat sink, pry up on alternate sides with a small screwdriver until it slides out of the heat sink. There is a friction-fit retention device that requires a bit of patience to overcome. Here is a photo taken half-way through the removal process.

Image

dperrella
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Love the build

Post by dperrella » Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:53 pm

This is mostly directed at Chris Thomson, but I'll welcome constructive advice from anyone.

I have loved reading about this system and the forum posts about it. I especially love it because (except for the elaborate ducting - I'm not quite that handy) it is quite similar to the one I've been working on. :D

What I have (or am getting) is as follows:

Antec Solo case
Antec Phantom 350 PS
Asus P5W DH Deluxe
Core 2 Duo E6600 (currently with stock cooling - debating between Scythe Ninja and Thermalright XP-120/SI-120 - either will be equipped with a Nexus 120mm fan)
2x1GB Patriot PDC22G5300LLK
2xSuspended Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000KS 500GB (in RAID 0 - I worry about my data)
MSI NX7900GT-VT2D256E-HD (currently with stock cooling, but BIOS upgraded to allow fan control - debating between Aerocase Condor and Thermalright HR-03)
2xNexus 92mm front input case fans (one in, one on the way, run at very low speed with Fanmate)
1xNexus 120mm rear input case fan (I have all my fans pointed inward to maintain positive pressure and good airflow through my passive PS) (run at very low speed with Fanmate)

My main question is whether I should go with the Aerocase Condor or the HR-03. I imagine the HR-03 was not around when your (Chris') system was built and I'm not sure if you would recommend it over the Condor. I imagine either one could work passively on my display card - at least when I am not gaming and have not overclocked the card - but that the Condor might be able to passively cool the card during gaming and up to almost its full potential, while an actively cooled HR-03 might go a bit further. If I get the HR-03, I'll almost certainly never try it passively and just slap a low voltage Nexus fan on it. At low voltage, these fans are so quiet that their noise is not an issue for me. My real trade off is between the silence of the Condor and its huge size.

The issue with the CPU cooler is similar, a debate between the huge size, but great CPU cooling of the Ninja against the compactness and greater cooling of the voltage regulators and Northbridge radiator with the SI-120. I don't want to have to go to the same extremes as you on cooling my motherboard. I will overclock a bit, but not as aggressivley as you (currently I'm running at 2.88 Ghz, just to test the overclocking utility that cam with the MB, I'll probably be a bit more aggressive once I have my final cooling in place). With modest overclocking and a Scythe Ninja with a Nexus fan running at 5-7 volts, will I be endangering my MB because of the lack of airflow directed at it?

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