Motherboard heat pipes, digital PWMs, etc: Hype or help?

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Ken5d
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Motherboard heat pipes, digital PWMs, etc: Hype or help?

Post by Ken5d » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:46 pm

So, I’m building a new system. I’ve got all the parts (see list below), except a motherboard & cpu. Been that way for almost a month now. The cpu will be either an E6400 or E4300. I hope to overclock to 3GHz (though preferably only when needed for video or photo editing; the rest of the time stock speed would be fine). My main problem is choosing a motherboard.

My concern is heat. Not only due to overclocking, but because the ambient room temperature can get quite warm here in the summer (low 30s C).

So, I’ve been concentrating on motherboards with heat pipes, thinking these would do the best job of keeping the SB, NB, and power circuits cool. But do they really help? Particularly if there’s no direct air flow on them? My case is an Antec SOLO. I’ll have 2 92mm intake fans (say, 25-30 CFM range), and one 120mm exhaust (35-40 CFM). I wasn’t planning on having any fans directed on any of the heat sinks or pipes (other than anything that might blow from a 120mm fan that comes with a Ninja).

So, am I better off with a board that has or doesn’t have heat pipes?

Next feature: Digital PWM. In theory, it sounds great. Supposedly it generates less heat (it clearly leaves more room around the CPU socket!), provides a more stable waveform, and is more robust. But in reading some initial comments on the Asus Commando, I’ve read at least 2 posts that complained that the PWM components that don’t have a heatsink on them get very hot. This still seems like a worthwhile feature, but those comments were quite disappointing.

n-phase power design seems like more hype than help. Apparently most motherboards use a 3-phase or 4-phase design. The Abit AB9 Pro uses a 5-phase design. Not to be outdone, most Asus boards use an 8-phase design, and Gigabyte’s 965P-DQ6 uses a 12-phase design. If there were really a meaningful difference among these designs, wouldn’t we be hearing more about it?

Fan monitoring & control surely is important (and very relevant here, obviously). Yet not much discussion of it by manufacturers. Of the boards I’ve examined closely, Gigabyte seems to offer the least control, and Abit the most. Asus is in-between (the P5B Deluxe can control only 2 fans, whereas the Commando can control a lot more -- up to 5, I believe). I know I can get a fan controller and control the fans manually, but I strongly prefer an automated approach. (I guess there are even automated controllers, but that seems a bit of overkill. But if anyone’s doing that and loves it, please do tell.)

Here are the boards I’ve been considering (all with some heat pipes). They are all P965-based, but now that I’m leaning towards an E4300, I wonder if I’d do better with a 975-based board?
Asus P5B Deluxe:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131045
Asus Commando:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813131149
Abit AB9 Pro:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813127004
Abit QuadGT:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813127019
Gigabyte 965P-DQ6:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6813128323

The Commando & QuadGT are the newest boards, and both of them use a digital PWM.

I'm going nuts, and I'm tired of waiting! Opinions, comments, and help greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Ken

System configuration:
Antec SOLO, Corsair HX520, GeForce 7600 GS (passive cool), 2GB OCZ Platinum Rev 2 PC2 6400, Western Digital WD1600AAJS (160GB SATA II) (2 of these), Seagate 7200.7 160GB SATA, CD/DVD burner, Scythe Ninja Plus Rev B, E6400 or E4300.

JaRoD
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Post by JaRoD » Sun Jan 21, 2007 4:25 am

I've been wondering about the same things. From what I've read p965 boards are better if you overclock but the 975 are a bit faster when both boards run at the same speed. And of course the 965 boards are quite a bit cheaper.

Somewhere on this forum I read that heatpipes might not be that good in the way they are used on motherboards. Since they transfer heat from the warmer to the cooler side the transfer might go the wrong way when overclocking the board. The voltage regulators might get really hot and heat starts transfering back to the northbridge :shock: Then again it might just be the person that fried the motherboard just got a bad board or something.

I've actually thought about getting an abit board considering the amount of fan control and monitoring available. Guess I'll have to follow this topic for a while before buying.

Ken5d
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Post by Ken5d » Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:54 am

Hopefully we'll get some comments from others, especially about the heatpipes. I think I read the same post you did, and that was what prompted me to start this thread.

On the low end, there's no doubt that 965 boards are quite a bit cheaper than 975 boards. But once you move up from there, it becomes far less clear. As an example, the Asus Commando (965) is going for $280 at the egg (though it can be found for less elsewhere), whereas the Abit AW9D-MAX (975) is $210. There are five 975s under $200, and several more in the $200 - $225 range. Since I'm looking at around $200, give or take, I'm ok with either a 965 or 975.

You commonly read that 975-based boards are better if you have an E6500 or above, and 965-based are better for E6400 and below. (This is related to OC'ing, since the 975-based boards typically don't get to as high an FSB speed, which is ok for the CPUs with higher multipliers.)

Since the E4300 has the same multiplier (9x) as an E6500, does that mean that it's better matched with a 975-based board? For most people, the answer is probably "no", since the purpose of choosing an E4300 over an E6500 is to save money. I think most who choose an E4300 will probably go with a lower end 965-based board. I have no idea which I'll choose, but I sure wish I would already. :lol:

I'm attracted to abit not only for the great fan control, but because they seem to allow turning overclocking on & off from within Windows. I have no idea if I'm right, since I've never found anyone who's said they've actually done that. To me, that sounds like an ideal situation. To run at stock speeds, except when you really need to use extreme processing power. But abit has a recent history of extremely slow BIOS updates. I've read complaints of months going by without an update, with obvious bugs that a lot of people were encountering. That's not a big deal if you buy one of their older boards, but I was considering one of their brand new ones (the QuadGT) -- probably not a good idea.

JaRoD
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Post by JaRoD » Sun Jan 21, 2007 1:27 pm

On my current computer I actually do all the overclocking directly from windows :D nforce4 motherboard and I use a program called clockgen, available from here http://www.cpuid.com/clockgen.php

The new nvidia 650i chipset seem nice and cheap too -> http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2894

Too cheap for you though :wink: but it has 2 ide channels which the boards with intel chipset doesn't. And since I have 2 ide hhds and a ide dvd I almost have to get a board with nvidia chipset or I have to replace 1 or both hdds with sata drives :cry: But intel chipsets use quite a bit less power both at load and idle so those are preferable. What to do...

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Sun Jan 21, 2007 2:40 pm

I ended up removing all the heat-pipe motherboard coolers and using aftermarket coolers instead. The stock coolers are okay with the Intel stock CPU cooler, since it blows down onto the motherboard radiators, but high-end tower CPU heat sinks don't do this. In my case, the heat pipe actually worked backwards because the VRM was hotter than the NB.

Multiphase power is a good thing. It makes the VRM run much cooler since it is more efficient. 8 phases is plenty.

To find out details about fan control, you typically have to download the BIOS manual for the board, and look at the screen shots.

Ken5d
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Post by Ken5d » Sun Jan 21, 2007 5:17 pm

So that's why so many people talk about clockgen! Thanks, JaRoD, for the info. Sounds like a good way to go if I don't go with abit.

I eliminated nvidia chipsets from consideration due to their higher power consumption and heat output. Doesn't seem worth the somewhat higher performance to me. But, hey, the cheaper, the better! I don't really want to spend $200, it just seems like that's about the price I need to spend, in order to get what I want.

cmthomson, sounds like heatpipes are bad, then? Or, at least, certainly not the panacea I was hoping they'd be. Asus is the only 8-phase power design I know of, and the boards I'm familiar with all have 1 or more heatpipes. I really don't want to have to mod the boards (remove heatpipes and add coolers) if I don't have to.

Decisions, decisions. How come no one makes a "perfect" board?

:D

cmthomson
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Post by cmthomson » Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:25 pm

If you use the stock Intel CPU HSF, or some other HSF that blows down onto the motherboard (or up from it), such as the XP-120 or its followons, then the motherboard heat pipe and radiator arrangement found on, for instance, the Asus P5W or Gigabyte DQ6 make good sense.

If instead you use a tower HSF such as the Ninja, Ultra or HR-01, then those pipes and radiators don't do anything except make all the chips they are attached to about the same temperature. Given that VRM MOSFETS run hot, this is bad for the north bridge.

The P5W family has 8-phase power. The DQ6 has 12-phase power. Both are very efficient.

Ken5d
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Post by Ken5d » Mon Jan 22, 2007 5:42 pm

What you said makes perfect sense. But I wonder what using an HSF that blows down onto the motherboard would do to the airflow pattern in an Antec SOLO? I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me that might be less than ideal.

Maybe the best thing to do might be to cut the pipes out. :( At the moment, I'm leaning towards the abit QuadGT. There's only a single heatpipe between the NB and PWMs. Snip, snip.

It's probably just a 3- or 4-phase design, but I'm thinking the digital PWMs will help make up for that.

Thanks, cmthomson.

Operandi
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Post by Operandi » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:11 pm

You’re completely over analyzing the situation.

Heatpipes are generally a good feature and shouldn't be removed unless you have a very good reason. Even if you have a large tower heatsink that doesn’t provide any direct air flow to the VRM components there still tends to be more air flow in that area of the motheboard so cooling should be a net gain.

Phase design and digital PWM are basically design choices you really shouldn't bother yourself with too much. More phases is good in that you get smoother power and higher efficiency but beyond 8 way designs I'm not sure there is much of gain. Digital PWM I know less about but it appears to be very efficient and appears to function without any capacitors so it's probably simpler and more reliable.

As far as fan control goes that is important for controlling noise and should probably be your number one concern over everything else you mentioned. I have a "Recommended boards" thread here stickied that has pretty good information. Some of the boards you are looking at are in the recommended list and I'll be adding the Abit QuadGT soon.

Ken5d
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Post by Ken5d » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:03 am

Operandi, over-analysis is an occupational hazard. Besides, I'd rather over-analyze than under-analyze, and make a mistake I have to live with for 5 years (I tend to keep my computers a long time).

I'm hoping that what you wrote will indeed prove to be the case for me (that there will be enough air flow around the VRM components to provide adequate cooling, even if there's no direct air flow). But even the HSF recommended list here warns of the situation, so clearly it can be a problem.

I have read the "Recommended boards" thread, and it was helpful. Another board you should consider is the Asus Commando. It has an 8-phase power design, digital PWM, heat pipes between the SB, NB, and VRM HSs, and fan monitoring and control of about 1/2 dozen fans. Additionally, it has headers for 3 temperature probes (but stupidly doesn't include the probes themselves), the results of which can be used to control fans. Sounds ideal. But, there have been a few reports of 2 negatives: buzzing (possibly from undersized caps), and the portion of the VRM components that don't have a HS have been reported to get extremely hot.

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:11 am

the portion of the VRM components that don't have a HS have been reported to get extremely hot.
But do they get dangerously hot though? Does anyone know the typical safe operating temps for MOSFETs? Besides, you can always stick aftermarket heatsinks on them to bring temps down.

JaRoD
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Post by JaRoD » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:22 am

From a little quick looking around max temperatures for mosfets are from 70 to 225c so not helpful at all... But generally the cooler the better since they actually "generate" more heat the warmer they get... If they get too hot they run into thermal runaway and burn up. So the better they are cooled the less energy your computer uses and the less you have to cool the computer :roll:

Operandi
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Post by Operandi » Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:23 am

I do a lot of research too before I buy a new motherboard and my priorities are stability, reliability, and features particularly passive cooling and fan control -- more or less in that order.

Stability comes from good engineering through both hardware design and software design (BIOS). Like I said previously more phases is generally better but it’s not something you need to make a stable motherboard. Digital PWM looks interesting but again I don’t think it inherently makes a better necessarily better because it has it. Basically all these design features are means to an end (a solid motherboard) for the engineers designing the boards.

Reliability (or lack there of) is a result of the component choice. Probably the most important component here would be capacitors. High quality capacitors (Rubycon, Chemi-con, Panasonic) caps will last for practical purposes forever but they cost more so you typically see them on the more expensive top tier boards (Asus, AOpen, MSI, Intel). Lots of the boards now feature solid polymer caps (I believe Sanyo is the only one mass producing them), these are also very reliable but again more expensive.

As far as heat on the VRMs go, that was probably more of an issue with the extremely power hungry Pentium4 CPUs then it is with Core2 or AthlonX2s’. Besides these components are designed to operate at very high temperatures so I wouldnt be too concerned.

But if you do want to provide cooling to the VRMs you can always choose a heatsink such as the Thermalright SI-120 that will provide excellent cooling to the motherboard VRMs.

cienislaw
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Post by cienislaw » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:37 pm

Operandi wrote:Some of the boards you are looking at are in the recommended list and I'll be adding the Abit QuadGT soon.
this is stuff im interested in for my next build. did u test it somehow lately? its looks really nice in terms of silence - no fans, solid capacitors (and my eye see less of them capacitors i mean, than for example on asus commando board or p5w dh deluxe), clear cpu area, 6(!) fan connectors, high overclock potencial, only one full pci-e 16x (this is ok for me, i dont need more). one 'problem' is Jmicron chips used for ata controller and some other stuff, i hope they (abit) will solve this shortly. this all what i know about this board reading the web and manual;-)

Ken5d
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Post by Ken5d » Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:40 pm

Operandi wrote:But if you do want to provide cooling to the VRMs you can always choose a heatsink such as the Thermalright SI-120 that will provide excellent cooling to the motherboard VRMs.
I would probably go this route if I could verify that it doesn't negatively impact the air flow in an Antec SOLO / P150. Maybe blowing up towards the PSU's fan (instead of down towards the motherboard) wouldn't be too bad. Though I wonder how cool that air would be to the PSU.
cienislaw wrote: solid capacitors (and my eye see less of them capacitors i mean, than for example on asus commando board or p5w dh deluxe)
I never noticed that, but you're quite right, cienislaw. They do both use solid caps, but it looks like there's about 50 caps on the Commando, and only about 3 dozen on the QuadGT. (And most of those on the Commando appear to be larger than most of those on the QuadGT.)

But -- does that mean the QuadGT is better engineered? Or does it mean that it doesn't have enough caps?

By the way, the Commando has 8 fan connectors!

nick705
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Post by nick705 » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:01 pm

Ken5d wrote: By the way, the Commando has 8 fan connectors!
You don't get anything like the huge range of control options that Abit's FanEq gives you though...

Ken5d
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Post by Ken5d » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:23 pm

nick705 wrote:
Ken5d wrote: By the way, the Commando has 8 fan connectors!
You don't get anything like the huge range of control options that Abit's FanEq gives you though...
I find it so bloody hard to tell by looking at the manuals.

For example, the QuadGT manual, as far as I can tell, has no info on fan control. But assuming it's the same as what exists with the AB9 Pro, I think you're right, it is better than what Asus offers.

But, OTOH, the Commando gives you the option to tie specific fans to specific temperature probes. That's something you can't find anywhere else, AFAIK. (You could get the same thing from a fan controller with temp probes, though. But I like it in BIOS better -- is that stupid?)

cienislaw
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Post by cienislaw » Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:22 am

Ken5d wrote:But -- does that mean the QuadGT is better engineered? Or does it mean that it doesn't have enough caps?
less caps always means for me more space, which i like - there is noting more anoying than a cap in place where should fit your cpu cooler or any other stuff (better nb heatsink ect). in terms better engineered - dont know, beside that solid caps are better than normal ones, cost more (duh, quadgt cost over $200). i really like what abit did with quadgt, i hope to buy it next month (none of polish retailers have it stock at the moment), and have fun with it;-)
Ken5d wrote:By the way, the Commando has 8 fan connectors!
looks good, but for me 6 is more than enough. as always - if there is 8 fan connectors it doesnt mean you have to use it all (it will be shame to have 8 fans in 'silent' system;-). before i found out that new (my build is pretty old - 2001 athlon thunderbird...) have so much fan connectors, i considered to buy a 4 fan controler. but now, all what i need is a decent mobo with speedfan or manufacurer soft to control about 5 connectors - assuming that i will make build in p180/182 i will use:
1. one fan for cpu
2. exhaust fan
3. top fan
4. low bay fan (hdd and power supply place)
5. add fan to make better air flow in gpu area

and thats all. so as you see, 6 connectors is plenty, maybe for some p190 with really heavy stuff inside you will need more thant that. i will take look on commando, maybe it will change my mind.

nick705
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Post by nick705 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:08 am

Ken5d wrote: But, OTOH, the Commando gives you the option to tie specific fans to specific temperature probes. That's something you can't find anywhere else, AFAIK. (You could get the same thing from a fan controller with temp probes, though. But I like it in BIOS better -- is that stupid?)
No, it's not stupid at all, I quite agree with you. Why go to the extra trouble and expense of buying and installing additional hardware, when the BIOS can/should manage things perfectly well by itself? Speedfan is fine, but that's assuming it happens to work with your particular mobo and choice of operating system. Also, I like to have as few running processes as practically possible - admittedly Speedfan isn't a exactly resource hog, but every little helps.

Re the QuadGT: from what I've seen, the downloadable manual seems to be half-finished - if you get the one for the AW9D Max, you should get a better idea of what it can do. AFAIAA the only difference as far as FanEQ is concerned is that the AW9D has an extra two headers for the Silent OTES fans (which no-one ever uses anyway).

I didn't realise the Commando could tie specific fans to specific (user-defined) temperature probes, I thought only Abit boards could do that. The AW9D Max certainly can - you don't have to use the 4-pin PWM header if you have, say, a 120mm 3-pin fan for your CPU, you can just attach it to a 3-pin SYS header and have it monitor the CPU temps and vary the speed accordingly (it supplies "true" variable DC voltage by the way, not some PWM-type imitation which causes some fans to tick at low speeds). The one gotcha is that you have to attach a fan to the CPU header when you're setting it up in the first place (or you reset the BIOS to defaults), or the mobo will scream at you and shut down, thinking the CPU is about to overheat.

You can also set high/low temperature thresholds for each of the eight headers individually, and a high/low voltage range (duty cycle for the 4-pin CPU header) to operate between those temps. I'm not aware of any other mobo that gives that kind of granular control, although that's not to say they don't exist of course. :)

cienislaw
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Post by cienislaw » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:40 am

Ken5d wrote:But, OTOH, the Commando gives you the option to tie specific fans to specific temperature probes. That's something you can't find anywhere else, AFAIK. (You could get the same thing from a fan controller with temp probes, though. But I like it in BIOS better -- is that stupid?)
did some homework on commando, and for me this termal probes arent so interesting. why? you have to buy them separately and with my knowlege of getting such stuff in poland usually is a big problem. of course, this is nice feature to have 3 fans controlled by temp from probes. it can also controll 3 fans by temp of the chasis (interesting isnt it?), so if this really works as it should, and some use all this features well, can have nicely controlled fans by bios. anyone digg a review of it, i mean full review, not only overclocking?

does BIOS controlled fans are better? depends;-) for me the best option is - controlled by BIOS but with possibility to use tool to make realtime changes in os. but now almost all mobos has such features.

thanx for info about this mobo, for sure i will consider it. it has one disadvantege - 220 euros;-(

nick705
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Post by nick705 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:04 am

cienislaw wrote: did some homework on commando, and for me this termal probes arent so interesting. why? you have to buy them separately
My mistake - I thought Ken5d was referring to the mobo's own onboard sensors. So you can plug extra thermal probes into the Commando, definitely haven't come across that before...

cienislaw
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Post by cienislaw » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:08 am

yup, 3 separate probes which you can put where you want are good thing. add to this a 3 chasis fans which can work on 3 settings (optimal, silent, performance), which have at least one probe or more on mobo, and full controlled cpu fan, and one power fan (looks like no control on this one). i really hope that asus poland will sale this probes here...

isnt it stupid when you change your mind every week? firs i though about asus p5b deluxe, then p5w dh deluxe, then abit quadgt now looks like that asus commando is the winner for me (especially that it has much better mobo coolling than p5w with this crappy caps on heatsinks). i will have to decide shortly and i hope nothing more interesting will pop to mess my mind (rd600 based mobos for example).

Alex
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Post by Alex » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:30 am

According to my Asus Commando Manual:
Only the CHA_FAN1 (Chassis Fan) and OPT_1~3 (3 Optional Fans) connectors support the Asus Q-Fan 2 feature.
As i have understood it the optional fan 1~3 can work with the temperature sensors connected to OPT_TEMP1~3.
Unfortunately the sensors seems to be expensive and are NOT included.

The Asus Commando has 7 3-pin fan connectors.
PWR_FAN that is meant to be used for the small included fan that should be used "only" when a watercooled CPU is used (=useless fan but connector can be useful).
3 Optional fans (OPT_FAN1~3)
3 Chassis fans (CHA_FAN1~3)

1 4-pin CPU fan connector with the following pins
GND, CPU FAN PWR, CPU FAN IN, CPU FAN PWM.

I do not have CPU and other parts yet so I can not help you with answers on how it is running.
The 3 OPT_FANs can be set to Duty Cycle control (70%, 80%, 90%, 100%) or to QFAN control.
Last edited by Alex on Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nick705
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Post by nick705 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:03 am

cienislaw wrote: isnt it stupid when you change your mind every week? firs i though about asus p5b deluxe, then p5w dh deluxe, then abit quadgt now looks like that asus commando is the winner for me (especially that it has much better mobo coolling than p5w with this crappy caps on heatsinks). i will have to decide shortly and i hope nothing more interesting will pop to mess my mind (rd600 based mobos for example).
I feel your pain... I often spend weeks agonising over the various merits and demerits of particular hardware, by which time something else has arrived on the market to further confuse the issue. It's a common problem when you're a computer geek I believe...

I think you just have to face the fact there's no such thing as an "ideal" motherboard - even if you combined all the best bits (for you) from several different mobos all into one, the result might not suit someone else. In the end you have to get your credit card out and hope for the best.

It's worth remembering if your new purchase doesn't quite live up to what you expected, the nature of PC equipment means there will nearly always be a satisfactory workaround. You can analyze stuff too much, as someone said above... :wink:
Last edited by nick705 on Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

cienislaw
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Post by cienislaw » Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:03 am

please share with us, how this new mobo features works, when you complete build, it will help a lot. thanx in advance.

Ken5d
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Post by Ken5d » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:06 am

cienislaw, just to clarify, the Commando also has all solid caps. You're quite right, 6 or 8 fan headers -- no difference. I'm planning on using 3, so anything more than 4 or 5 is definitely immaterial to me. You're also right about the Commando not including the thermal probes (I mentioned that, but perhaps not clearly), which I think really stinks (and, at the least, they should offer them for sale themselves). I did google one source for them that was reasonable (US$5 each), but I have no idea if they ship to Europe. And now I can't seem to find the place again. I agree the Commando price is a negative; it's about US$50 more here. Not sure it's worth it.

nick705, thanks very much for the info on how abit boards work. I have the AB9 Pro manual pdf, and could tell it has a lot of flexibility. But I'd forgotten you could assign the CPU temps to a different fan header. That's a great way of doing things. I think my main attraction to the Commando is to hopefully be able to monitor HD temps and tie those to my 2 front intake fans. I also like the extra PCI slot space and 2 gigabit controllers. But I can buy a gigabit controller for the abit and still have 1 pci slot left. So none of this is really make-or-break for me.

As Operandi said earlier, what I'm mostly interested in (and trying to determine), is which board will be the most reliable over the long term? I think the fact that the Commando has more caps (and more large caps) is an indication, but not being an EE, I'm still not clear on what it indicates!

jaganath
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Post by jaganath » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:18 am

As Operandi said earlier, what I'm mostly interested in (and trying to determine), is which board will be the most reliable over the long term? I think the fact that the Commando has more caps (and more large caps) is an indication, but not being an EE, I'm still not clear on what it indicates!
IANAEEE (i am not an EE either) but it seems to me that assuming more caps = more reliable is a bit simplistic. Definitely all-solid caps are a good thing for longevity, but apart from that the main thing is that the board has the right amount of caps for the particular circuit topology. To be honest just about the only thing that can fail on a motherboard (barring actual physical destruction with rocks etc) is the caps, and solid caps are rated for way longer than 5 years (up to 23 years @65C). So unless you really abuse it it's much more likely that something else will fail, or you will upgrade long before it becomes non-functional.

nick705
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Location: UK

Post by nick705 » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:19 am

Ken5d wrote: As Operandi said earlier, what I'm mostly interested in (and trying to determine), is which board will be the most reliable over the long term? I think the fact that the Commando has more caps (and more large caps) is an indication, but not being an EE, I'm still not clear on what it indicates!
I think that's the problem really - unless you have a real understanding of how these things work, you can only go by how they pan out in practice. I doubt if something like the number and size of capacitors tells you anything useful, unless you have a very detailed knowledge of each board's overall design. Same with multiphase power - if a board proves to be rock solid in the field with well-designed 3 or 4 phase power, it's a bit pointless to be hankering after 8 or 12 phase on the grounds it's theoretically "better".

The trouble is, you can wait until a product has established a proven track record, read all the reviews, follow all the forum threads...by then something new will have appeared and you'll be back at square one. Decisions, decisions... :lol:

cienislaw
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Location: Poland

Post by cienislaw » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:32 am

dont get me wrong about caps - the quantity of them IMO doesnt make board good or bad, it was just an eye observation. of course, less is better, especially near cpu socket, in term of space, but both commando and quadgt have plenty of space near cpu. yup, you are right - commando also have solid caps which is good thing, and this is one of things that make this mobo expensive. one thing is worring me - there is lots of caps betwen pci slots, but if it would have any negative impact on mobo, ie caps themselfs, asus EE guys wont put them there;-)

thermal sensors - possibly i was reading too fast and didnt see it then. but also i think its a pitty, that they dont provide them with mobo (they give 3 of them with striker, but that mobo is hell expensive!), and they dont mention anywhere on the website about it as separate product. of course in poland, there is no shop which sells them - maybe its matter of time, because mobo is really hot. i search for commando a bit more and found some retailers with 200 euro price, so its almost the same price as p5w dh deluxe, not bad.

JaRoD
Posts: 53
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Post by JaRoD » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:36 am

I went with an abit ib9 motherboard, no heatpipes or extra stuff.

http://www.abit-usa.com/products/mb/pro ... &model=334

Running seti@home and overclocked to 3Ghz using both cores pwn temps are 45 and system temp is 28c. And that's with a room temp of about 23c. Don't know where they measure the system temp but the northbridge heatsink isn't that warm, maybe a bit over 30 or so. It has 4 fan connectors and they should work with speedfan but haven't tried since I bought a zalman fan controller. One thing about this motherboard though is that it reads the cpu temp directly from the core. Temps jump 10c withing a few sec of applying the load. If it used external temp measuring it take alot longer for the sensor to react.

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