Ultra 120 + E6600: Fan Questions

reflekshun · Post by **reflekshun** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:26 am

I'm currently building an audio workstation, and after reading that the ninja scythe might not be a comfortable fit for my P5B-E Plus motherboard, I have leaned towards the Ultra 120 CPU Heatsink.

I will NOT be overclocking, and my question is - do I need to compliment this Ultra 120 with Case AND and CPU fan?

Is it reasonable to leave out either one of these fans, or is it reasonable to leave both out and rely completely on the heatsink?

Lastly, is there such a thing as a nexus 120mm cpu fan? I cant find one for the life of me! Or do you simply attach the case fan to the heatsink?

More specs on my upcoming setup if you need them:

Asus 7600GS Silent (no fan)
Antec Solo Case
Tagan Easycon 530W

----Audio related----
TC Powercore PCI card
External Soundcard

I would greatly appreciate anyones input on this, as I have been reading for some time now, and need more specific information. Thankyou anyone who can help me!

Redzo · Post by **Redzo** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 10:22 am

You will need a case fan. You can get by running a Nexus 12cm @5V or 7V. That will provide enough airflow and will be close to inaudible.

Now you could get by without fan on CPU heatsink but for that to work you will have to increase airflow thru your case, which means fans will work at higher rpm=more noise.
So you are best of having one Nexus 12cm on CPU heatsink as well. One Nexus 12cm @5V will be plenty and really, really quiet.

And ALL 12cm fans can be used as CPU or CASE fans. Its up to you where do you want to put them

sun.moon · Post by **sun.moon** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 12:12 pm

I have a very similar build as you are planning. I chose the Ultra 120 due to numerous positive reviews both here at SPCR and at other sites. I have read quite a bit from disappointed forum members about the newer version of the Scythe Ninja.

For the setup with the Ultra 120 I recommend that you have both a case and CPU fan. You can have both fans volted way down - depending on the fan they will be nearly inaudible. Thermalright does make a fanless heatsink - the HR-01. I remember reading positive reviews about that - should be fine for you particularly if you do not overclock. But as Redzo wrote, you would have to increase your case airflow, meaning running your rear fan at higher voltages (if not adding a front fan as well?), which of course increases noise. You'd have to play around to find the sweet spot for you for the cooling/noise ratio.

The problem with 120 CPU fans is mainly the 4 pin connector. The P5B-E Plus has that connector. There are very few 120 fans at the moment that support PWM with 4 pins. In Europe I found an Arctic Cooling fan that does the trick. Search the Forums, there are also a couple of others out there as well.

For your information, my system, despite the five fans in it (including PSU), is very very quite for my taste. Probably not "silent" or "near silent", but that wasn't my primary objective. From a meter and half away, I can barely discern it. I sure it can easily be made quieter though!

Hope this helps you a bit.

sun.moon

p.s. INMO the 530W PSU is overkill for your planned system...

cmthomson · Post by **cmthomson** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 4:16 pm

Pretty much any tower heat sink will perform well in your system. All of them were designed to handle Pentium 4 or D CPUs that consume twice as much power as a C2D or Athlon.

I'd recommend you look at the HR-01, which comes with an easy to install duct that goes onto the case fan. This lets one fan provide both CPU cooling and case venting.

Spanki · Post by **Spanki** » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:55 pm

Contrary to the opinions above, my understanding is that the Ultra 120 just does not perform well with a low-speed (<1200rpm) fan on it. For low fan speeds, there are much better performing, less expensive, smaller, lighter weight heatsinks - like the Scythe Mine or Ninja (I can provide multiple links/reviews that show the Ultra 120 performing poorly with low rpm fans, including the one here at SPCR).

The Scythe Mine can be found as low as ~$30 USD + shipping and comes with a nearly silent 1500rpm "Kaze Jyu" 100mm fan. The fan can also be replaced with the 60-140mm (25mm thick) fan of your choice, using an easy mounting mechanism. Additional reviews can be found on Scythe's product page.

reflekshun · Post by **reflekshun** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:40 am

Huge thanks to everyone for your informative replies. I have now decided on getting two slow running 120mm fans. (1 x CPU, 1 x Case fan)

The question is now, Ultra 120 + Nexus 120mm, Scythe mine or Scythe ninja?

I would prefer the Ninja Plus based on its price and included fan, but the remaining issue is - will it fit in the smallish Antec Solo case and on a P5B-E Plus board? That was my original concern with the Ninja - Does anyone have any experiences they can share with me on this?

Thanks very much again!

Spanki · Post by **Spanki** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:25 pm

For what it's worth, here's the SPCR review of the Scythe Mine. But there are a few things to keep in mind when reading that, relative to it's performance vs the Ninja...

- the Ninja being tested is the old version, not the new one.

- the old Ninja didn't come with a fan, so they use a (expensive) Nexus fan - the new version comes with a fan, but there's no test-data for that fan.

- the Mine has a nice fan mounting system, allowing you to use any 60-140mm fan you want, so there's no reason you couldn't put a Nexus fan on it, if you wanted, but it was not tested that way (though I wouldn't spend so much when you cen get a similar Yate Loon fan for ~$3.00).

- for this review, they were using a P4, generating about ~70W of heat at Idle (Core 2 Duos start at around 85W, quads start at around 125W).

- other reviews, like this one show the Mine out-performing the Ninja with a similar noise level fan and if you look at the next page, when they both use the same fan, they perform the same, but the Mine cools the pwm/vrm better. Note that this review/testing was done with a very hot Athlon 64 3200+ @ 1.7v, generating ~78W at Idle and ~165W at load (this load heat would be much more than the P4 at load in the SPCR review, due to the high 1.7v being applied).

...so my guess is that these two are much closer to each other in performance than the SPCR review's conclusion, but considering that you don't plan to overclock, the difference wouldn't matter anyway - either would do fine.

Clearance/Size:
I can't speak specifically to the mb/case clearance issues, but the Ninja is 110x110x150mm and the Mine is 109x109x150mm, so they are basically the same size. Adding the 120mm fan to the Ninja makes it wider on that end and deeper by 25mm overall. The Mine comes with a 100mm fan, that fits within it's dimensions listed above and if you added a 120mm fan to it, the extra width would be in the center instead of one end. My guess is that either heatsink should fit fine, but the overall size advantage goes to the Mine.

Weight:
Ninja - 770g including fan
Mine - 560g including fan

Price: (Edit: I listed the price of the Ninja as ~$35.00, but that should have been ~$36.00... fixed)
Ninja - ~$36.00 @ Jab-Tech
Mine - ~$30.00 @ Directron

My Conclusion:
So one review shows the Mine out-performing the Ninja, while another shows the Ninja out-performing the Mine. Let's assume for the sake of this particular discussion (not overclocking) that "it doesn't really matter if one or the other is a few C better" - either one will do the job.

Based on size, weight and price, the Mine gets the win, in my book.

Spanki · Post by **Spanki** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:27 pm

Edit: sorry, duplicate.

Konnetikut · Post by **Konnetikut** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 6:08 pm

just a note in case if you didn't know
Nexus fans are not compatible with an Ultra 120 without modding to the closed flanges.

mits · Post by **mits** » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:16 pm

Hi,
As you can also see in my sig, i have paired the Ultra 120 with a 120mm scythe fan S-Flex SFF21E (1200 rpm) which is of course a 3-pin fan and not 4-pin and i am very happy with results. The fan is almost inaudible.

reflekshun · Post by **reflekshun** » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:04 am

You guys have been just great - thankyou VERY much for all the help. I think I'm finally on my way to a decision now

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:35 pm

Can the Mine or the Ultra 120 be used with 120mm Yate Loon fans? I have the fans on order. I plan to buy a Core2Duo board such as the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R.

Nexus fans are not compatible with an Ultra 120 without modding to the closed flanges.

So, that would suggest a mod if you use the Ultra 120? I guess I should consider the Mine instead?

jaldridge6 · Post by **jaldridge6** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 1:52 pm

lets not forget the noctua heatsink with the 12cm fan. that is a nice contender to the ultra120

cmthomson · Post by **cmthomson** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:18 pm

Spanki wrote:- for this review, they were using a P4, generating about ~70W of heat at Idle (Core 2 Duos start at around 85W, quads start at around 125W).

The P4 used in the review has a TDP of 85W, similar to the C2D TDP. But that is not accurate in real life. C2D CPUs all consume less power than P4s, under pretty much all scenarios, especially overclocking. The maximum actual power consumption of a C2D is closer to 65W at nominal voltage, whereas many P4s and especially P4Ds consume 100+.

As a reference point, I used a Ninja with a slow fan to cool an overclocked and overvolted P4D (150W !!) without ever throttling. The fan had to run at about 900 RPM. I'm now using the same Ninja on a seriously overclocked and somewhat overvolted C2D, but at only 600 RPM (about 95W fully loaded).

jmke · Post by **jmke** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 8:32 am

pputer wrote:Can the Mine or the Ultra 120 be used with 120mm Yate Loon fans? I have the fans on order. I plan to buy a Core2Duo board such as the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R.

yes, Mine can mount up to 140mm fan, Ultra-120 needs open flange fan for the clips to fit;