Debating Mobos: P5W DH Deluxe or GA-P35-DS3R?

Jason W · Post by **Jason W** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:14 pm

I'm debating between these two mobos. The Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R is about $70 cheaper than the P5W DH Deluxe and looks to have more SATA ports. If I don't need wireless or a remote control, any major advantages to the P5W DH Deluxe to justify the price? I think I will try and overclock my eventual system to 3.0GHz (E6600 with 4GB of DDR2 800 RAM and a fanless 7600GS video card).

Thanks for any help/insight/opinions you care to offer! I'm anxiously awaiting the Intel price drops to order all the goods.

Jason

Shmanky · Post by **Shmanky** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:31 pm

I'm curious, why are you going with the P5W instead of the P5B? I see that they differ in their chipset.

ame · Post by **ame** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:10 pm

id go with the p5k or the Ga-P35.
the intel p35 chipset give better memory preformance
also the p5k seems to have a heatpipe that runs heat to the rear fan
depending on your case this could be an advantage

Max Slowik · Post by **Max Slowik** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:58 pm

I've gone on at length about how Asus is re-packaging refurbished P5W DH Deluxes and selling them as new, but I'll definitely say it again. On top of that, the extra features aren't so outstanding that they merit the tremendous pricetag. . .

Gigabyte puts a lot more design and a lot less gimmick than Asus into their motherboards right now, and I have not yet had any problems with any of their products. The DS3 series is probably the best overclocking series on the planet, potentially more so than DFI's UT series. It's stable like gravity. It may arguably also be a pseudo-force, as well.

I'd also get any P35 or P38 board over any i965 or 975X board, respectively.

Jason W · Post by **Jason W** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:03 pm

ame wrote:id go with the p5k or the Ga-P35.
the intel p35 chipset give better memory preformance
also the p5k seems to have a heatpipe that runs heat to the rear fan
depending on your case this could be an advantage

I know I seem a little back-and-forth on the topic of motherboards, and now that you mention the P5K it is intriguing as well.

This computer I am building needs to last 3-5 years as far as not needing a major overhaul for the things we will use it for. The P5K and GA-P35-DS3R are both priced less than the P5W DH Deluxe, and both have the P35 chipset. Both are basically priced the same, so I am trying to determine if it really comes down to a brand preference or something else. I do see that the P5K has an eSATA connector on the back panel...

The good news is that I have a computer that runs currently, so I am not in a huge rush to get this new PC built.

Regards.

Jason

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:19 am

Jason W wrote:The P5K and GA-P35-DS3R are both priced less than the P5W DH Deluxe, and both have the P35 chipset. Both are basically priced the same, so I am trying to determine if it really comes down to a brand preference or something else. I do see that the P5K has an eSATA connector on the back panel...

The good news is that I have a computer that runs currently, so I am not in a huge rush to get this new PC built.

Regards.

Jason

The Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R has the ICH9R chipset while the vanilla P5K only has ICH9. I don't know if it matters.

Jason W · Post by **Jason W** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:40 am

What is the difference between the ICH9 and ICH9R chipsets? Is it a performance thing, or is it an added functionality thing?

!ason

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:43 am

I read about differences being the number of onboard SATA connectors (ICH9R typically has more) and the availability of AHCI and RAID functions. ICH9 doesn't have RAID support.

jimmyzaas · Post by **jimmyzaas** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:38 am

DS3R does not have firewire. A real downer considering the P5K has it.

Max Slowik · Post by **Max Slowik** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:53 am

I review hardware and gadgets. . .I have never once come across a Firewire device. In my head I know there are a couple of people out there with a tablet or a removable hard drive that they think is irreplaceable, but in my gut I think it's worthless price-hiking bullshit.

dsjonz · Post by **dsjonz** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:54 pm

Gigabyte puts a lot more design and a lot less gimmick than Asus into their motherboards right now, and I have not yet had any problems with any of their products...It's stable like gravity. It may arguably also be a pseudo-force, as well.

I agree with Max. I've been a longtime Asus fan until I recently opted for a Gigabyte P35-DQ6, my first non-Asus board in over a decade.

Why? Asus was once the no-nonsense vendor that placed board reliablity over gimmickry and "flash & trash" - but that seems no longer the case. Forums have been rife with accounts of Asus boards shipping with many non-working features & functions out of the box, coupled with nonsupport and a failure rate that has caused formerly loyal system builders to publicly refuse to offer them.

I still have immense respect for Asus boards and products as an "addled enthusiast", but as a former PC hardware and software product manager I do not. I don't want to get off on a rant here

, but I sense that Asus is rapidly eroding their industry leadership with rushed product designs, poor QA, unvalidated marketing, nonexistent support, and the most unreliable website of any company of their size.

Asus is still a good choice, but it's no longer the unquestioned "safe bet" they once were. In contrast, Gigabyte seems to be assuming the "solid & reliable" mantle that Asus seems to be abandoning. Gigabyte's MB offerings - particularly the latest P35 series - exhibit ultra-stable overclocking performance and the highest quality components and assembly I've ever seen in consumer-class motherboards - and everything *works* right out of the box.

jimmyzaas · Post by **jimmyzaas** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:37 pm

From what I gather,

DS3R missing Firewire (not a matter to some I guess) and a second PCI-E 16x slot (no crossfire for you!)

P5K only has 5 Sata ports and not 8 like the DS3R. Sound chipset is also inferior to the DS3R.

Let's say I won't upgrade for another 3 years like the Jason, won't I be better off getting a discounted P5B deluxe?

Jason W · Post by **Jason W** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:38 pm

Interesting comments regarding Asus. It is beginning to sound like the GA-P35-DS3R board may be a solid choice. Any idea how the cooling of the northbridge on the GA-P35-DS3R compares to the P5K? Since I want to go fanless with the Ninja Rev. B on the CPU (unless I overclock the E6600 to 3.0GHz), I need the northbridge to stay as cool as possible with only the rear case fan drawing air over it...

Also, with either board, is it recommended to remove the heatsinks from the NB and SB and re-seat with a fresh application of AS5? I've heard that can make a nice difference...

Thanks again for everyone's great comments and candor. Keep it going!

Jason

jackylman · Post by **jackylman** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:52 pm

Jason W wrote:Since I want to go fanless with the Ninja Rev. B on the CPU (unless I overclock the E6600 to 3.0GHz), I need the northbridge to stay as cool as possible with only the rear case fan drawing air over it...

If you want to do that, you might consider going back to a P965 board. The P35 consumes a good bit more power. Detailed Graph

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:47 pm

Jason W wrote:Interesting comments regarding Asus. It is beginning to sound like the GA-P35-DS3R board may be a solid choice. Any idea how the cooling of the northbridge on the GA-P35-DS3R compares to the P5K? Since I want to go fanless with the Ninja Rev. B on the CPU (unless I overclock the E6600 to 3.0GHz), I need the northbridge to stay as cool as possible with only the rear case fan drawing air over it...
Jason

I go to this site to compare.

http://www.hardware.info

The good: The Gigabyte board has better stats for power usage compared to the P5K. The P5K is very quiet, though, and when you compare to the Gigabyte....

The bad: The Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R is considered the noisiest board (according to the web site I provided). The P5K might run hotter or uses more power but it is not as nosy as the Gigabyte board.

Thus, both of these boards have major flaws if the stats on that site are accurate. I like the P35-DS3R for the price/performance combo but I don't like the idea of it being a board that emits a lot of noise. The P5K series are considered power hungry among motherboards.

Therefore, I've been looking at the Abit P35 (not Pro) which has similar specs to the 'Pro' version. The only flaw that I know of with that board is some 'double boot' problem so I assume it re-boots or boots twice before loading an operating system. That problem should be fixed in one of Abit's BIOS updates (whenever they figure out the problem). The other negative would be the price. It's not bad but is more expensive than the Gigabyte and Asus (vanilla P5K).

So, which board is the best for the price and features?

Jason W · Post by **Jason W** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:59 am

pputer wrote:
Jason W wrote:Interesting comments regarding Asus. It is beginning to sound like the GA-P35-DS3R board may be a solid choice. Any idea how the cooling of the northbridge on the GA-P35-DS3R compares to the P5K? Since I want to go fanless with the Ninja Rev. B on the CPU (unless I overclock the E6600 to 3.0GHz), I need the northbridge to stay as cool as possible with only the rear case fan drawing air over it...
Jason
I go to this site to compare.

http://www.hardware.info

The good: The Gigabyte board has better stats for power usage compared to the P5K. The P5K is very quiet, though, and when you compare to the Gigabyte....

The bad: The Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R is considered the noisiest board (according to the web site I provided). The P5K might run hotter or uses more power but it is not as nosy as the Gigabyte board.

Thus, both of these boards have major flaws if the stats on that site are accurate. I like the P35-DS3R for the price/performance combo but I don't like the idea of it being a board that emits a lot of noise. The P5K series are considered power hungry among motherboards.

Therefore, I've been looking at the Abit P35 (not Pro) which has similar specs to the 'Pro' version. The only flaw that I know of with that board is some 'double boot' problem so I assume it re-boots or boots twice before loading an operating system. That problem should be fixed in one of Abit's BIOS updates (whenever they figure out the problem). The other negative would be the price. It's not bad but is more expensive than the Gigabyte and Asus (vanilla P5K).

So, which board is the best for the price and features?

I can't find where on that website you are reading about the GA-P35-DS3R being noisy... can you point me there a little better?

Here's what I want: a motherboard that will allow me to run the CPU either passively cooled (with a Ninja or equivalent) or cooled with an undervolted 120mm fan, as well as run a passively cooled video card. My plans for the P182 case are to only use the rear fan for exhaust purposes in the upper chamber. I will close off the case-top fan opening. And I will run a single 120mm fan in the lower chamber for HD and PSU cooling. I'd like to use Speedfan to monitor temps and control the fans.

I'd like the board to have the P35 chipset and the ICH9R chipset, and have adequate passive cooling of them to allow for my low-airflow plans.

I'd also like to overclock whatever Core 2 Duo processor I buy to 3.0GHz.

I plan to run 4GB of DDR2 800 RAM.

If motherboard noise level is not above ambient room noise levels or above undervolted fan noise levels, then it's irrelevant right? If true, then I'm mostly concerned with NB and SB cooling with low airflow.

I can't believe I'm more confused now than ever. But now I am considering the following three P35 boards:

Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R
Asus P5K Deluxe (it has the ICH9R, the P5K only has ICH9)
MSI P35 Platinum

Anyone have any experience with the MSI P35 Platinum board?

Jason

Max Slowik · Post by **Max Slowik** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:52 pm

How can it possibly be noisy? It's passively cooled.

Also, for efficiency with 4GB, be sure to pick up a 64-bit OS.

Don't worry about driver compatibility and all that; I have never run into any new hardware that didn't work with XP or Vista x64. I've run XP x64 for two years, and Vista x64 on my HTPC and my testbench since it was released. The only thing that didn't work was a six-year old printer.

Max Slowik · Post by **Max Slowik** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:54 pm

Oh, that and a VFD, but it didn't work in 32-bit Vista, either, so I'm not going to say that it applies in this context. It barely worked in XP. Fuckin' Zalman...

jaldridge6 · Post by **jaldridge6** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:01 pm

Gigabyte I find to be a much more dependable and less frivolous company than Asus. The deluxe series also comes with a plethora of "useless shit" that invariably drives the price up. Also, the p35 ds3 is apparently much more energy efficient than the p5k, p5w, etc. Gigabyte all the way. I had tons of problems with my P5b-dlx when it first came out. I use a Ds3-p965 now and I am seriously impressed with it's reliability and performance.

Also, MSI is a junky company. I think they make garbage motherboards but, well, I base that on having their 650i for 72 hours. Horrible board, flat out horrible.

Jason W · Post by **Jason W** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:03 pm

Max Slowik wrote:How can it possibly be noisy? It's passively cooled.

I don't understand this either. Is there some kind of electrical interference that causes crackling or "white nose" to be emitted from speaker systems?

Since I'm going for a quiet system, I certainly don't want a motherboard noise problem to ruin that. But if there is a buzzing or something that the motherboard emits, and that noise level is below the noise of my fans and the room ambient, then who cares?

Just thinking out loud.

Max Slowik · Post by **Max Slowik** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:40 pm

Also, MSI is a junky company.

I have a love/hate with those guys. It's mostly that they're innovative. They have good features, lots of cool things, and good software support. They release BIOS updates regularly...

Which is necessary, because I think a lot of their stuff is rushed and under-engineered. Such is the cost of invention.

On the flipside, you can't really hate MSI, because you use their hardware whether you know it or not; they're one of the largest OEM suppliers in the world, and make custom motherboards for damn near every laptop and server company.

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:27 pm

This thread has aroused my interest in the DS3R while i have been steadfast on getting a P35 chipset board by Asus (P5K deluxe).

The reason has to do with the $200+ price tag. I get this gut feeling that I will be paying for extra things that really aren't necessary - things i will never use. Add to that the extra power consumption and higher heat output. A mark in Asus' favor, however, is that no matter where i see a discussion of their 965 or P35-based boards, invariably people say that are supremely stable.

But now it is really starting to slap me in the face that Gigabyte must be doing something right in order for me to see so much fanfare about them not just here, but AT, [H]OCP, and elsewhere.

I just reviewed the specs of the DS3R and it pretty much suits my needs: official quad core support, ICH9R, DDR2, Gigabit LAN (only need 1, would never use dual-gigabit LAN unless somebody can describe a scenario where I may), 1 16x PCI Express (not interested in Crossfire - a single card should do), ....oh it costs ~ $160 US.

edit: I forgot to post my question about the DS3R. What's this talk of motherboard noise? Passively cooled chipsets........

jimmyzaas · Post by **jimmyzaas** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:28 pm

Maybe.. i'm just guessing here.. it's electrical noise similar to the "buzz" a X1900 XTX makes regularly even when water cooled.

jaldridge6 · Post by **jaldridge6** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:39 pm

i'm pretty sure all these electrical noises everyone hearing is coming from their power supplies. Time to isolate the issues, gentlemen. Take your psu out and listen to it with your ear up to it.

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:41 pm

Sorry, I didn't mean to alarm any Gigabyte fans. I can't find the site in which people are discussing the noise. I know it's out there. It was less than a week ago that I was reading people discussing it. Anyway, various boards are tested on the hardware.info site and when they tested for noise, the Gigabyte produced the most noise. A poster here has claimed they are not a reputable source so it's up to you if you want to place any importance on the test or not.

As far as I'm concerned, the top boards for price and performance are:
1) Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R
2) Abit IP35 (non-Pro)
3) MSI Platinum P35

I think it's between the DS3R and Abit IP35. If the Abit board reduces in price to the same price of the Gigabyte board, I will probably go with it. If it doesn't when I'm ready to buy, I'll go with Gigabyte, I think. The Abit sounds like a good board that will stay cool and quiet.

Take a look at this thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com
Follow the thread at:
FORUMS > Hardware and Technology > Motherboards > Abit IP-35...Nice Overclock Board

I can't find where on that website you are reading about the GA-P35-DS3R being noisy... can you point me there a little better?

http://www.hardware.info/en-US/productd ... e_P35DS3R/
Choose the graph to compare. Audio Test/Noise Level.

Wedge · Post by **Wedge** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 8:32 pm

Does anybody know if the DS3R will undervolt?

jaldridge6 · Post by **jaldridge6** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 11:47 pm

Well, the DS3 does, so I"m 99% sure the DS3R will.

Jason W · Post by **Jason W** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:15 am

pputer wrote:Sorry, I didn't mean to alarm any Gigabyte fans. I can't find the site in which people are discussing the noise. I know it's out there. It was less than a week ago that I was reading people discussing it. Anyway, various boards are tested on the hardware.info site and when they tested for noise, the Gigabyte produced the most noise. A poster here has claimed they are not a reputable source so it's up to you if you want to place any importance on the test or not.

As far as I'm concerned, the top boards for price and performance are:
1) Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R
2) Abit IP35 (non-Pro)
3) MSI Platinum P35

I think it's between the DS3R and Abit IP35. If the Abit board reduces in price to the same price of the Gigabyte board, I will probably go with it. If it doesn't when I'm ready to buy, I'll go with Gigabyte, I think. The Abit sounds like a good board that will stay cool and quiet.

Take a look at this thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com
Follow the thread at:
FORUMS > Hardware and Technology > Motherboards > Abit IP-35...Nice Overclock Board

I can't find where on that website you are reading about the GA-P35-DS3R being noisy... can you point me there a little better?
http://www.hardware.info/en-US/productd ... e_P35DS3R/
Choose the graph to compare. Audio Test/Noise Level.

The graph you are referring to is not a graph that illustrates how "noisy" a motherboard is in terms of electrical buzz or anything like that (the bad kind of noise we here at SPCR hate). The graph, which is in the audio test section of the motherboard review, is one indicator of the audio quality of the motherboard. A higher decibel number is actually better, and the Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R noise level of 97.7 dBA would rank as "very good" according to the maker of the software used for the test (Rightmark Audio Analyzer). So when the Gigabyte board is at the top of the graph, that means it's actually the best of all the motherboards listed for that particular parameter tested.

Hopefully this puts the "noise" issue to rest.

dsjonz · Post by **dsjonz** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:44 am

Thanks for clearing up the Gigabyte "noise" question, Jason W.

I've got a new Asus AM2 board with coils that whine annoyingly, but my Gigabyte P35-DQ6 is completely silent. I've read exactly one review that knocked the Gigabyte's HD audio sound quality, but it sounds very good to me (even though I still prefer a Creative X-Fi card output to my audiophile stereo system).

pputer · Post by **pputer** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:40 am

Sorry about that. I did read that the testers used the Rightmark tool but I didn't realize it was for testing quality and that a high score meant quality (sound). My fault and sorry to waste people's time and provoke concern about the board. I still think I did read about an issue or I may have confused myself about a board that has definite sound issues according to owners (DFI Infinity P965 board).

The Gigabyte looks very good. I will probably go with it if the other boards don't come down anytime soon in price.