What is the lowest wattage system you can achieve?
Moderators: NeilBlanchard, Ralf Hutter, sthayashi, Lawrence Lee
Ok, after witnessing today how a notebook hard-drive behaves in my computer (WD passport), I think I will buy one.
First I have some questions:
1. Is it worth to invest in a 7200RPM drive ?. This computer is going to download files from the internet, and transmit them to another computer. Will I see a noticeable difference between 7200RPM and 5400RPM for these usages (I'm sure not for the downloading part, but maybe for the file transfer to the second computer). I simply remember the 5400RPM era of desktop pcs, I didn't like it then.
I can get a 5400RPM 120GB drive, for the same price as a 7200RPM 80GB drive. Not sure what to choose... The difference between 7200RPM and 5400RPM drives seems small in terms of power consumption and noise, at least accoring to specs...
2. Will the new WD green drives be as good as a laptop drive ?, if so I will probably be able to get a 320GB green version for the same price as a 120/80GB laptop version. The problem then will be that the WD green drives are not IDE, like my Pentium 3...
3. Can you recommend a good 120GB laptop drive ?, how about this one ?: http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?v ... cale=en-US#
First I have some questions:
1. Is it worth to invest in a 7200RPM drive ?. This computer is going to download files from the internet, and transmit them to another computer. Will I see a noticeable difference between 7200RPM and 5400RPM for these usages (I'm sure not for the downloading part, but maybe for the file transfer to the second computer). I simply remember the 5400RPM era of desktop pcs, I didn't like it then.
I can get a 5400RPM 120GB drive, for the same price as a 7200RPM 80GB drive. Not sure what to choose... The difference between 7200RPM and 5400RPM drives seems small in terms of power consumption and noise, at least accoring to specs...
2. Will the new WD green drives be as good as a laptop drive ?, if so I will probably be able to get a 320GB green version for the same price as a 120/80GB laptop version. The problem then will be that the WD green drives are not IDE, like my Pentium 3...
3. Can you recommend a good 120GB laptop drive ?, how about this one ?: http://www.seagate.com/ww/v/index.jsp?v ... cale=en-US#
Were you running the VIA totally passively? I had the same issue with mine. When running totally passively (no fans of any kind) it was fine so long as you didn't run it at max CPU load for more than 5 or 6 minutes at a time. After a while, i decided to add an 80mm low speed fan running at 5v, so it's nearly inaudible and I haven't had a single lock-up since the addition of the fan.jones_r wrote:Regarding the speed of the VIA in relation to the P3 system, a much more important thing for me than speed, is stability. The Pentium 3 is rock solid, while the VIA has issues under max stress.
Unless you use gigabit ethernet, you would never encounter the ceiling of hd transferring speed. So, pick 7200rpm if 1000mbps network. On the contrary, go 5400rpm.
As for WD green drives, no definitive proof right now. But any 2.5' 5400rpm only draw 1W~2W at idle, I highly suspect any 3.5' would compete in this field. Typical 3.5' drives draw 7~10W at idle.
My personal preference of 2.5' is Hitachi, they tend to be faster. But I think any 2.5' drives would satisfy your needs.
As for WD green drives, no definitive proof right now. But any 2.5' 5400rpm only draw 1W~2W at idle, I highly suspect any 3.5' would compete in this field. Typical 3.5' drives draw 7~10W at idle.
My personal preference of 2.5' is Hitachi, they tend to be faster. But I think any 2.5' drives would satisfy your needs.
Currently I have an even more harsh constraint, the Pentium 3 motherboaed that I'm using, support only Ultra ATA/33, which limits me to a theaoretical transfer rate of 33Mb/sec. If I will be able to get anything close to this rate, I'll be satisfied.Unless you use gigabit ethernet, you would never encounter the ceiling of hd transferring speed. So, pick 7200rpm if 1000mbps network. On the contrary, go 5400rpm.
Yesterday I tried to copy a file from one hard disk to a second hard disk, both at the Pentium 3 computer (connected as master and slave), and got barelly 10MB/sec, which is horrible.
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Look.....you obviously have some sort of problem with your P-3 setup. Which means no matter what HD you use, your transfer speeds will be well below normal.
Also.....there are a number of different VIA boards available. I have never heard of any general instability problems across the line. A particular board with certain configurations might have problems, but that is true with any brand/chipset/CPU, etc. I usually never buy the first version of a new board when it comes out......I wait for others to try it before I buy. That being said....I wouldn't hesitate to use a VIA board, any VIA board, in a low power/usage computer.
For instance.....my C3 Jetway board is maybe 4-5 years old. It did not support USB2 or SATA. I put a USB2 card in the thing......I can transfer data much faster than you report, even though the laptop drive in it, is only 4200rpm. File transfer over the 10/100 LAN is just as fast as any of the other hi-power computers in the house.
For the general low-power usage you report, any of the newer VIA boards should be fast enough for you, along with any modern laptop drive you can find. But only as long as the configuration of the OS is normal.......
Also.....there are a number of different VIA boards available. I have never heard of any general instability problems across the line. A particular board with certain configurations might have problems, but that is true with any brand/chipset/CPU, etc. I usually never buy the first version of a new board when it comes out......I wait for others to try it before I buy. That being said....I wouldn't hesitate to use a VIA board, any VIA board, in a low power/usage computer.
For instance.....my C3 Jetway board is maybe 4-5 years old. It did not support USB2 or SATA. I put a USB2 card in the thing......I can transfer data much faster than you report, even though the laptop drive in it, is only 4200rpm. File transfer over the 10/100 LAN is just as fast as any of the other hi-power computers in the house.
For the general low-power usage you report, any of the newer VIA boards should be fast enough for you, along with any modern laptop drive you can find. But only as long as the configuration of the OS is normal.......
I noticed the same slow file transfer rate with my old P3 server. Even with a PCI gigabit ethernet adapter, my max transfer rate to other gigabit clients was ~10 to 15MB/sec.jones_r wrote:Yesterday I tried to copy a file from one hard disk to a second hard disk, both at the Pentium 3 computer (connected as master and slave), and got barelly 10MB/sec, which is horrible.
I recently ditched the aging P3 system for a BE-2350 X2 chip + Nvidia 7050 motherboard w/ gigabit ethernet and noticed a decent jump in transfer speeds. I am now getting ~45 to 50MB/sec file transfer rates and enough processing power for other applications such as vmware. Power consumption wise, the old P3 with its non-integrated video, PCI ethernet and PCI usb 2.0 expansion card was drawing 35W idle while this new and much more powerful system is at 30W idle.
1. And how many watts as max load ?Power consumption wise, the old P3 with its non-integrated video, PCI ethernet and PCI usb 2.0 expansion card was drawing 35W idle while this new and much more powerful system is at 30W idle.
2. Are you getting 30 Watts idle with a laptop HD ?
3. Which power supply are you using ?
4. Are you underclocking the CPU ?, it has double the TDP of my Pentium 3...
22-26w idle from a 7050 / X2 3800+ system:
viewtopic.php?t=41682&start=30#358909
viewtopic.php?t=41682&start=30#358909
Mid 50's max load1. And how many watts as max load ?
Yes, 2.5" laptop hdd.2. Are you getting 30 Watts idle with a laptop HD ?
Morex 150w brick power supply3. Which power supply are you using ?
Using C&Q, it idles at 1.1GHz and ramps up to 2.1GHz at 100% load.4. Are you underclocking the CPU ?, it has double the TDP of my Pentium 3...
vg30et,
Which motherboard exactly do you have, and can you undervoltage/underclock it ?, I haven't seen undervoltage/underclock results on the BE-2350/2300 at all.
The 30W at idle seems great, but mid 50's at max load, for me it's too much (if I buy a new system, that is). I would like to know if it's possible to keep it around 40W at max load. I think that theoretically, if you can go to 1Ghz, even without undervoltage, your CPU power consumption will be halved (suppose to go linear with undeclocking), and this should put you at ~40W. But, at 1Ghz you won't need the same voltage as in 2.1Ghz, so undervolting will probably get you to around 30W (at max load!), and still your computer will be 10X faster than my Pentium 3 computer.
Which motherboard exactly do you have, and can you undervoltage/underclock it ?, I haven't seen undervoltage/underclock results on the BE-2350/2300 at all.
The 30W at idle seems great, but mid 50's at max load, for me it's too much (if I buy a new system, that is). I would like to know if it's possible to keep it around 40W at max load. I think that theoretically, if you can go to 1Ghz, even without undervoltage, your CPU power consumption will be halved (suppose to go linear with undeclocking), and this should put you at ~40W. But, at 1Ghz you won't need the same voltage as in 2.1Ghz, so undervolting will probably get you to around 30W (at max load!), and still your computer will be 10X faster than my Pentium 3 computer.
You can limit yourself to max 1G @ 0.9V, it's still a lot faster than P3 533. You would get power and energy with newer components at the same time. I don't think you need to take full running into consideration, download PC doesn't need full power at all. The only problem is, you'll pay too much for energy-saving. Since P3 533 was enough for your needs, save money for electricity bill is more realistic. 40W is green enough, 20W difference won't give incredible benefits to noise/electricity bill.jones_r wrote: I would like to know if it's possible to keep it around 40W at max load.
As for undervolt, I can easily get 35W X2 3800+ to 1.15G @ 0.84V. I also can undervolt 65W X2 3600+ 90nm to 1.15G @ 0.88V. Take a look at CrystalCPUID, user configurable CnQ of SPCR article. Your results may vary with your luck.
You have to also keep in mind that limiting maximum CPU speed typically results in worse efficiency than letting the CPU ramp up as necessary for high loads as the faster the CPU is able to get the job done, the faster it can go back down to idle.loimlo wrote:You can limit yourself to max 1G @ 0.9V, it's still a lot faster than P3 533. You would get power and energy with newer components at the same time.jones_r wrote: I would like to know if it's possible to keep it around 40W at max load.
I forgot to mention that I also had two Hauppauge HVR 950 HDTV tuners attached to the USB ports. After removing those, the power consumption is now 37W idle, 40W under load.frank2003 wrote:I have a VIA EN12000E system with this config:
* EN12000E mobo
* 500GB WD 3.5" drive
* Hauppauge PVR-500
* Casetronic/Morex 2699 mini-ITX case with 60W brick
It draws 40W idle, 44W under load.
I'd imagine if I also removed the PVR 500 (which I'm not ready to do) and replaced the 3.5" drive with a 2.5" one, I could shave off at least another 10W of power. That would make the power consumption 27W idle, 30W under load.
Any chance you could measure the power draw of that PVR 500? I have 2 PVR 250s in one of my systems (MythTV) and each one draws about 10w all the time.frank2003 wrote: I'd imagine if I also removed the PVR 500 (which I'm not ready to do) and replaced the 3.5" drive with a 2.5" one, I could shave off at least another 10W of power.
I took out the PVR500 dual tuner card. The system power consumption is now 25W idle, 29W under load. So the power draw of the card is about 11-12W.drees wrote: Any chance you could measure the power draw of that PVR 500? I have 2 PVR 250s in one of my systems (MythTV) and each one draws about 10w all the time.
It's past, sigh. I cut and paste the same results from previous page. It's a relatively powerful machine which draws less power than most EPIAs. I just can't stand one IDE channel, but it's doesn't matter with only one HDD.
"From a friend's computer
INTEL D201GLY, Celeron M 215
1xDDR2 667 1GB
1xWD 40GB, 3.5'
Idle 25W, full running 31W"
"From a friend's computer
INTEL D201GLY, Celeron M 215
1xDDR2 667 1GB
1xWD 40GB, 3.5'
Idle 25W, full running 31W"
Just for fun, I decided to see how low I could get this AM2 system.
Specs: Biostar TF7050, BE-2350 ([email protected]), 1x 1GB DDR2-800, Morex 150W brick, 2.5" notebook drive, 2x Scythe fans w/ Noisemagic controllers.
Result:
This is with the LAN cable disconnected ... with it plugged in, power consumption rises to 25W.
With a dvd-r, floppy, 3rd fan, 2nd stick of RAM and stock AMD C&Q voltage, this box idles at 33W and 75W at 100% CPU usage.
Specs: Biostar TF7050, BE-2350 ([email protected]), 1x 1GB DDR2-800, Morex 150W brick, 2.5" notebook drive, 2x Scythe fans w/ Noisemagic controllers.
Result:
This is with the LAN cable disconnected ... with it plugged in, power consumption rises to 25W.
With a dvd-r, floppy, 3rd fan, 2nd stick of RAM and stock AMD C&Q voltage, this box idles at 33W and 75W at 100% CPU usage.
very nice, but from 33W idle you go to 75 full load? You should try undervolting from bios, you might run at stock speed at about 1V and your full load will be about 40-45W. Try it.vg30et wrote:Just for fun, I decided to see how low I could get this AM2 system.
Specs: Biostar TF7050, BE-2350 ([email protected]), 1x 1GB DDR2-800, Morex 150W brick, 2.5" notebook drive, 2x Scythe fans w/ Noisemagic controllers.
Result:
This is with the LAN cable disconnected ... with it plugged in, power consumption rises to 25W.
With a dvd-r, floppy, 3rd fan, 2nd stick of RAM and stock AMD C&Q voltage, this box idles at 33W and 75W at 100% CPU usage.
slot 1 Pentium 3? It is probably the .25u Katmai core which are more power hungry then the Coppermine. If you do some research you can probably find information to do the 'nailpolish mod' to reduce the vcore down to 1.8volts, (if the stock is 2.0) and that is about there low side.
If it is a coppermine on a slotkit adapter then consider lowering the voltage on it via its jumpers to possibly 1.35 volts. If it is one of the rare slot 1 coppermines then the nailpolish mod could probably reduce the voltage as well.
If it is a coppermine on a slotkit adapter then consider lowering the voltage on it via its jumpers to possibly 1.35 volts. If it is one of the rare slot 1 coppermines then the nailpolish mod could probably reduce the voltage as well.
it would be a real honor to whomever ends up with that, the "breadbox" is something of legend.MikeC wrote:
PS -- if you're interested I have a really early VIA m-ITX board you could fool around with for cheap. Email me.
I've been looking for a low-power low-cost always-on server as well.
The price of D201GLY is really good - 3rd party at Amazon has the board for $60 w/ $8 shipping - and the power numbers are respectable (~25W).
Does anyone have any idea of the performance? Can one do DiVX/XVid decode? Play iTunes video? Play Netflix video?
I have a Via Epia M10000 system now and it runs Ubuntu fast, and it does well on DiVX and XVid, but it chokes badly on both iTunes and Netflix. On iTunes video (playing Lost for example), I seem to get about 0.3 frames per second or something like that.
I'm tempted to give it a shot just due to the price - $60 is amazing. But I can't quite bring myself to press "buy" without some idea of how fast the CPU will be.
The price of D201GLY is really good - 3rd party at Amazon has the board for $60 w/ $8 shipping - and the power numbers are respectable (~25W).
Does anyone have any idea of the performance? Can one do DiVX/XVid decode? Play iTunes video? Play Netflix video?
I have a Via Epia M10000 system now and it runs Ubuntu fast, and it does well on DiVX and XVid, but it chokes badly on both iTunes and Netflix. On iTunes video (playing Lost for example), I seem to get about 0.3 frames per second or something like that.
I'm tempted to give it a shot just due to the price - $60 is amazing. But I can't quite bring myself to press "buy" without some idea of how fast the CPU will be.
My new Core 2 Duo system idles at 25W DC. Load is 36W (measured at the output from the AC/DC brick).
MSI 945GT Speedster
Core 2 Duo T5600 - 1GHz/0.85V idle, 1.86Ghz/0.87V load (down from 1.1V)
1 x 1GB DDR 667
120GB Momentus 5400.3 laptop drive
There's a Zalman 7000 atop the CPU so the system is fanless, even with two Prime95s running.
C states higher than C1 aren't supported on this motherboard so idle power has the potential to be lower with a motherboard that does (e.g. the Asus).
MSI 945GT Speedster
Core 2 Duo T5600 - 1GHz/0.85V idle, 1.86Ghz/0.87V load (down from 1.1V)
1 x 1GB DDR 667
120GB Momentus 5400.3 laptop drive
There's a Zalman 7000 atop the CPU so the system is fanless, even with two Prime95s running.
C states higher than C1 aren't supported on this motherboard so idle power has the potential to be lower with a motherboard that does (e.g. the Asus).