2003 Anandtech Power Supply Roundup Part II
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It's a pretty thorough roundup, at first look. Some good technically relevant details. Efficiency was not even mentioned, however.
Interesting about ThermalTake PurePower 480W being tops for noise -- mind you they did not have some of our fave quiet PSUs in the mix. Sparkle FSP350-60PN does come out as being louder than ThermalTake. Have to get a hold of one I guess...
Interesting about ThermalTake PurePower 480W being tops for noise -- mind you they did not have some of our fave quiet PSUs in the mix. Sparkle FSP350-60PN does come out as being louder than ThermalTake. Have to get a hold of one I guess...
No surprises in that roundup, at least to anyone from these forums:
Best PSU - PC Power & Cooling, but noisy.
Best "Bang for the Buck" - FSP/Sparkle/Aopen/Zalman etc. etc. etc.
They also allude to the quiet fan mod to PC Power & Cooling PSU's made by yours truly and others.
Still think that MikeC's PSU reviews are the best there is, and one of the real good things about this website. Unfortunately, it appears MikeC is a quality versus quantity guy, so I doubt we will ever see any big roundups on SilentPCReview.
Best PSU - PC Power & Cooling, but noisy.
Best "Bang for the Buck" - FSP/Sparkle/Aopen/Zalman etc. etc. etc.
They also allude to the quiet fan mod to PC Power & Cooling PSU's made by yours truly and others.
Still think that MikeC's PSU reviews are the best there is, and one of the real good things about this website. Unfortunately, it appears MikeC is a quality versus quantity guy, so I doubt we will ever see any big roundups on SilentPCReview.
Last edited by Riffer on Fri Aug 01, 2003 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hear Hear! (or at least his reviews!)Riffer wrote:Still think that MikeC's PSU's are the best there is, ...
Intrigued by the test using MemTest. I thought DRAM refreshed after any read or write, as well as automatically periodically (like every few msec)! Their results indicate your choice of psu can inject memory errors which is hard for me to believe, at least in general. I can believe a very poor psu could do this, but to see that ALL 18 psus tested can inject memory errors (results here) makes me wonder what that test was really measuring? I mean, does this imply our crashes and instabilities should be blamed on our psus and not Micro$oft?
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Look at the thermal performance roundup as well.Necroz wrote:I have a hard time believing it also. It would have been nice to see how the Seasonic matches up.MikeC wrote:Interesting about ThermalTake PurePower 480W being tops for noise -- ..
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1841&p=22
Do you really need another 42 Celcius component in your machine? With its low 30C temparature and its 12cm fan, the Fortron FSP350-60PN may be the winner. The Aurora version also has a manually adjustable fan speed knob (Anyone have/used/seen/heard one of these?). See newegg
Also, there is no qualitative sound testing like in Mike's reviews (other than the pitch of the Sparkle being mentioned). I'd like to hear about as much about the type of noise, high/low frequency content, buzzing, clicking etc. rather than just a dBA measurement.
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Yeah, but it blows it's exhaust back into the computer case !! To me this totally negates the lower temp of the unit itself. Who cares how hot it gets as long as it exhausts the heat outside of your case ? It's for this reason I would never buy one of those style of PSUs even if they are quiet.Do you really need another 42 Celcius component in your machine? With its low 30C temparature and its 12cm fan, the Fortron FSP350-60PN may be the winner.
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Overall I liked the article. The key is that it wasn't quite as rigorous as SPCR's stuff, but it did address things that aren't as focused on here such as stability and interference. I found it interesting that they were asserting a 330W Antec wasn't capable of reliably supplying a P4 of any type -- is this hyperbole, misinformation, or the scary truth?
I think Harry may have been mistaken in its design.Harry Azol wrote:no, it does notmarc999 wrote:Yeah, but it blows it's exhaust back into the computer case !!Do you really need another 42 Celcius component in your machine? With its low 30C temparature and its 12cm fan, the Fortron FSP350-60PN may be the winner.
I have one sitting right in front of me now. There is one 120mm fan, where the second fan on a 2 fan PSU usually is, and it blows air from inside the case into the PSU (it doesn't exhaust into the case - that would not have been very smart). The back where the fan usually is for regular power supplies is a grill (stamped into the PSU case) of hexagonal holes. On the opposite end of that are four small slots. Conceivably, some air might escape back into the case from those slots. But I'd think those two slots are less than 5% of the surface area of the holes in the stamped grill.
I wonder what those four slots are for, and if it makes any difference if they are covered up.
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So, basically what they are saying is that current
EMC regulations aren't enough to guarantee
DRAM data retention?
MemTest is really a worst-case test - no computer will
never ever (talking about real world applications) have it's
memory filled with a single bit high and it's complement,
alternated on every address line. Like:
10000...
01111...
10000...
Why didn't they manipulate two PSUs to prove their theses? :
remove the cover on one PSU and locate it close to the RAM banks,
make the wires on the second PSU a bit longer and put it in an
empty case a few feet away.
" incomplete tests are worse than none at all"
EMC regulations aren't enough to guarantee
DRAM data retention?
MemTest is really a worst-case test - no computer will
never ever (talking about real world applications) have it's
memory filled with a single bit high and it's complement,
alternated on every address line. Like:
10000...
01111...
10000...
Why didn't they manipulate two PSUs to prove their theses? :
remove the cover on one PSU and locate it close to the RAM banks,
make the wires on the second PSU a bit longer and put it in an
empty case a few feet away.
" incomplete tests are worse than none at all"
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I am sure they are saying ambient temp is the air temp in the room.Sledge wrote:On Anand's temp page
I'm guessing there was no processor, mobo, or even a incandescent light bulb in the case which is why the case ambient is so low.Tests were conducted inside an industry standard Chenming case with no fans running
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I am P4 ignorant, but if 204W on the +12V is insufficient for any P4 then I'm from Mars. Complete bollocks would be my view of their statement: if I am wrong then I thank my fairy godmother I am in the AMD camp.Ralf Hutter wrote:Can anyone comment on this?BaconTastesGood wrote:I found it interesting that they were asserting a 330W Antec wasn't capable of reliably supplying a P4 of any type -- is this hyperbole, misinformation, or the scary truth?
To me that table begs more questions than anything: is it EMC, wild fluctuations on 1 or more rails, sagging under load, noise from the mobo power circuits because of something in the psu, feedback loops because of psu design, moon phases or sun spots over 6 hours? They say they have been working on that test for a while - what are the results with 1 psu and varying DRAM? Varying CPU? Varying mobo? And in my heart I find it hard to believe memory errors can occur 'so easily' - why aren't we all noticing this phenomonen, or at least the consequences? I guess the % of PCs with ECC is <1%. Surely everyone running Prime, Folding (and other apps that are numerically sensitive) for months on end should notice these errors several times a week? Are all the distributed results erroneous - surely someone would have noticed by now? If you open a document in Word, leave your PC for 3 days and come back, how many characters have changed? Last time I looked it was none. (OK, I haven't done 3 days but I have certainly left stuff overnight, > 6 hours. And if this test made any sense I would expect to be a front row victim with my cheapo psus. )nbac wrote:Why didn't they manipulate two PSUs to prove their theses? :
remove the cover on one PSU and locate it close to the RAM banks,
make the wires on the second PSU a bit longer and put it in an
empty case a few feet away.
Googling around leads me to believe DRAM refresh is related to the RAS precharge time which is a number of cycles. We are talking MHz for cycles, so why does it take 6 hours to show a failure? Are they measuring defects in the memory controller based on the power feeding the memory controller? At best 'non sense' is my view - did I miss the point
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In this example the memory values aren't changing at all by the pc, what happens when I run FAH for 72 hours or Prime 95? They're telling me I'd get at least 6 errors? And Standford U would find that acceptable?If you open a document in Word, leave your PC for 3 days and come back, how many characters have changed?
OK, who's switching back to ECC memory?
Maybe we should cover every individual wire coming out of the psu with a wire sheath and ground it as well.
We wouldn't have these problems if we were still using vacuum tubes.
I'm glad to see not everyone bought Kristophers hypotheses,but there is
a thread about that (where it should be) at Anandtech Forum ( JPSJPS posts)
enought said!
a thread about that (where it should be) at Anandtech Forum ( JPSJPS posts)
enought said!
Last edited by nbac on Sun Aug 03, 2003 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Seems (at least for psus) Anandtech has joined that other site in the completely incompetent category.
I went to search Anandtech for more on this MemTest test - surprisingly nothing in a DRAM test a few days ago. But did find that thread as well. I love the following from jpsjps @ Anandtech:
I went to search Anandtech for more on this MemTest test - surprisingly nothing in a DRAM test a few days ago. But did find that thread as well. I love the following from jpsjps @ Anandtech:
I have never seen a review that is as pathetic as this one. I am shocked that Anandtech would post this review and make a complete fool of themselves.
RIPKristopher - Thanks for the PM! I see you got stuck doing a job out of your field of expertise and that explains the whole story.
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What difference would it make to have MemTest86 wait six hours before reading back them memory rather than read it back right away? How would that be a better test of RF interference causing memory errors when the bits are refreshed every few milliseconds anyway? Is that much charge lost in the bit cell near the end of the refresh cycle, and how much more vulnerable does it make the memory to RFI? Has anybody tried goofing up a computer by holding a cell phone right next to the mobo? A couple of years ago that German PC magazine did that with a hard drive and caused it to crash (only one brand; others not affecte).
I promised myself to leave this review behind me, but
obviously I couldn't. New things just keep popping up:
*Since when do Athlon MB's use the 3.3V rail to produce Vcore?
(it's either 5V or (not so often) 12V)
*The heatsinks of PC Power & Cooling TurboCool 475 reached
25.8'C under load, which means the test temperature must
have been even lower. Probably the stated temp : 21'C.
Combining a low test temperature with an unknown load
should make all test results pretty much useless.
Now, RIP
obviously I couldn't. New things just keep popping up:
*Since when do Athlon MB's use the 3.3V rail to produce Vcore?
(it's either 5V or (not so often) 12V)
*The heatsinks of PC Power & Cooling TurboCool 475 reached
25.8'C under load, which means the test temperature must
have been even lower. Probably the stated temp : 21'C.
Combining a low test temperature with an unknown load
should make all test results pretty much useless.
Now, RIP