Apple G5 Pictures

Enclosures and acoustic damping to help quiet them.

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fmah
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Apple G5 Pictures

Post by fmah » Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:44 pm

If you're interested, there are many pictures here.

http://www.macitynet.it/immagini/visita ... onenglish/

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Post by attnet » Fri Aug 15, 2003 9:33 pm

Wow, those are some excellent pictures. Thanks a lot!

Anybody else curious how those beefy looking three-bladed fans sound? :)

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Post by Shadowknight » Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:22 am

Huh, well it requires a fair amount of modification...

Throw out the motherboard, cpu, hard drives, fan, monitor, mouse, keyboard, and misc software.

Install an ASUS board, Barracuda IV, Panaflo L1As, Logitech cordless mx duo, Samsung flatscreen monitor, and oh yeah...

And Intel 3.02 ghz processor and Windows XP :)

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Post by DryFire » Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:17 am

someone here does not like mac's very much...


well i always liked the fact the MAC can innovate much more easily then the PC sector can because they're the only ones building their computers.

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Post by Shadowknight » Sat Aug 16, 2003 9:05 am

? Don't quite understand what you're saying there pardner...

I have nothing against Macs, just having a bit of fun.

Though it is an interesting question... Is there an audience on this site who might be interested in quite components for the Macintosh? I have no idea how quite/loud even the stock components are...

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Post by fmah » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:00 am

According to the presentation, which is linked somewhere on there, it is supposed to be 35db (or something) at normal operation. I thought it was quite odd at first to have so many fans, but then noticed that the top version is supposedly faster than a dual Xeon system.

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Post by madlee » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:02 am

apple would be smart to start selling their cases....

that way all us PC peeps could buy one.

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Post by Zhentar » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:07 am

fmah- emphasis on 'supposedly'

Outside of the apple dreamworld, it will probably have a hard time beating a good single proc system.

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Post by trinitrotoluene » Sat Aug 16, 2003 10:19 am

I always thought Apple should leave the "PCs our way or else" business and focus on making cases, iPods and software (maybe :D).

Have you guys ever heard the original PSU in the Dual G4 towers? I'm not to noise adverse, but that thing sounds like my vacuum cleaner!

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Post by DryFire » Sat Aug 16, 2003 11:01 am

my uncle's g4 likee montore and ball thingy is reather quite. i can hear the sound of one fan which seems to be a 60mm fan (juding by teh picth).

It's much quieter then mots pc's but i still would not buy a mac.

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Post by Rusty075 » Sat Aug 16, 2003 5:28 pm

Has anybody seen any pics of this that are not from an Apple press conference? I've yet to see anyone have a "real" review of it. IE, a review without an Apple handler in the room. Even the Mac fanboy sites haven't had a real one yet. I always notice that the machines they show as "quiet" are not shown completing any benchmarks.

I'd like to get the model numbers off those fans though. The mystery of the CPU coolers is solved by those pics though, they're Aerocool Or at least an Apple knockoff.

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Post by Zhentar » Sat Aug 16, 2003 8:20 pm

That Website wrote:A semi-lateral view of the G5: with front a back sides wholly "trasparent to air" thanks to the little holes in the Aluminium.
I'd have a pretty hard time calling that grill transparent to air.....

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Post by mieses » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:17 am

the G5 ~might~ win a couple of benchmarks. But people don't buy them for speed. A lot of people get actual work done on macs without jerking away their life modding pc's.. sorry about the rough comment.. but you gotta acknowledge that usable computers are valuable to people who just want to sit down and work. I don't want to argue that macs really are easier than pc's .. but there are people for whom that argument holds true. happy with their macs, could give a fuck about an extra 20% in cpu speed, and who do get a kick out of the way the thing looks.
OS X is getting legs, and feeding off the open source phenomenon. MS might have some tough times ahead if they don't lower prices by 4x across the board or start open sourcing their stuff as well. I'm not a mac partisan.. I hated OS 9. but the design of that G5 case is damn good. No one else even comes close. what is it about the culture of the pc case manufacturers that prevents them from making good design? are they too cheap to allow their designers enought time to develop the designs? are they afraid to risk alientating consumers with a "new" design... and resort to copying each other and introducing improvemnts at a trickle, so as not to freak out the consumer? shuttle, hush pc, and lian li deserve credit for pushing things a little, but their design is still lame compared to apple.

but to flip the argument, you could compare pc case design and manufacturing to Linux.. where innovation happens in a swarm of copying and reverse engineering. Apple's cases are like Microsoft where a single company has control over the design and can make big moves, big changes. anyays, we will start seeing cheesy copies of the G5 case from the usual suspects very soon. and i'm sure they will all miss the point of the design, the aesthetic, and the engineering.

as for performance, screw Intel. I'm an amd fan-boy! yee ha. i like that AMD is working with IBM, linux, etc... everyone is just ganging up on wintel (to survive) and it's going to get interesting. I'm looking forward to the Tyan K8W + dual Opterons + AGP8X + 8 dimm slots! Will a sonata or slk3700 work with a 12" by 13" eatx board? And shouldn't the Opterons require less cooling, and thus be quieter?

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Post by Shadowknight » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:41 am

what is it about the culture of the pc case manufacturers that prevents them from making good design? are they too cheap to allow their designers enought time to develop the designs? are they afraid to risk alientating consumers with a "new" design... and resort to copying each other and introducing improvemnts at a trickle, so as not to freak out the consumer? shuttle, hush pc, and lian li deserve credit for pushing things a little, but their design is still lame compared to apple.
I think it's just laziness. The Chemning cases (rebadged as Antec and Chieftec... among others) have a good design... so everyone copies it ad infintium instead of coming up with something that MIGHT be a little different. This is mostly a Western phenomenon as Eastern markets have a TON of cases which at least have a few more interesting features (such as the GMC cases).

I wouldn't mind having a case that has a mirror finish, built in LED temperature readout, with IDE and power connectors on the outside of the case... yet we don't get features like that. With the current popularity of modding and pre-modded cases right now, you'd think there would be someone who would at least import some of the more interesting cases. There wouldn't be any R&D costs for designing a new case by getting another companies case and rebadging it (again, like Chemning).

What's really annoying is that you'd think by now a MB tray would be standard... Yet how many cases have you looked at where they bother to include this feature, despite it's usefulness? I've finally got a case with one and I love it.

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Post by Rusty075 » Sun Aug 17, 2003 2:56 pm

Just to be difficult, I'm going to suggest that my 7 year old Aopen beige box is a better example of case design than the new G5. Really. Here's why:

1. With half as many fans it can cool a machine more powerful than the G5, with the same noise level.
2. When I bought it I put a K6-2 233mhz in it. It now contains an XP1900. If I wanted it to it could contain a dually Opteron mobo, with a SATA-IDE RAID array, a GeforceFX, and a DVD-burner.
3. If I owned a Mac G4, I can't put it into the G5 case.
4. In two years, when the G6 (?) comes out you will not be able to put one of those into the G5 case.
5. Once the G6 arrives Apple will drop the support for upgrades for the G5 box, and it will become obsolete.
6. If I wanted to get a new case for my XP1900, to replace the 7 year old Aopen, I have hundreds of choices. If I wanted to replace the case on a G5 I have...um, um....1 choice. (another case exactly like the one it came with)

The beige box is better design because it's reusable. It's like a Zippo. The G5, while pretty, is more like a Bic Lighter. Use it, then throw it away. The G5 is the computing equivalent to a styrofoam BigMac box. Yet another example of the American culture of disposability.


And you all are very lucky....

This post was much longer. In it I discussed the fact that Apple is more anti-Open-source than Microsoft, the joke that the Apple marketing has become, the fact that PC's are easier to use and more stable than Macs, and why Apple will never reach much beyond the 3% marketshare that they have now.

But I took so long to type it that my php session expired! And I forgot to copy it, so when I went to post it I lost everything. :twisted: :twisted: :evil: Lucky for you I'm too lazy to retype all of it. (But if anyone wants to revisit any of my points, I'd be willing to expound a little)

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Post by Zhentar » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:09 pm

Buy a dell with windows 2k or maybe XP and you will get something faster, cheaper, and probably more stable, and easier to use....

And rusty points out the number reason to get a PC. a year from now, when a part or two is too slow for me, I can go out and buy a new one. Any brand I want pretty much, and it will interact with everything I already have reliably. Even if I decide nVidia is evil and I should never ever buy or use their parts again, there's no problem.

Don't like the apple option? tough. Even when they use the same technology as PCs their rarely compatible.

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Post by Harry Azol » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:10 pm

Rusty, I'm still using the Elan Vital case I bought when I upgraded to a P166 MMX .. I didn't think anyone else on this site would be using an old case like me.. :D

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Post by Zhentar » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:19 pm

And I'm just using my case from my 700mhz duron.... though technically I'm not using it now. Its actually the only case I've ever bought :) Before that I was just using OEM computers. Now I feel like such a newbie :)

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Post by Rusty075 » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:23 pm

How many Macs of that vintage do you think are still around?

Zhantar, that was part of my lost discussion on how Apple isn't "Open-Source" at all. In fact Apple is more closed source than Microsoft. At least Bill Gates is kind enough to limit is monopolistic aims to just software.

Imagine if the situation was reversed, and 97% of the market was Apple. There'd wouldn't be a need for places like Pricewatch.com or Newegg. All you need is Apple.com.

Of course the rate of advancement would slow to a crawl, prices for computer parts would keep going up instead of down, but at least we'd all have pretty computers Of course alot fewer poor people would be able to take part in the internet revolution, but poor people aren't as pretty as Mac people anyway, so they don't count.

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Post by Zhentar » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:46 pm

of that vintage? Not many. Of the right speed to be of that vintage? a lot :)

My school was getting some new 'emacs' near the end of last year. I liked them because they had slightly less shitty mice (especially compared to the satanic round iMac mice. No true human being could have designed such a crime against humanity) and monitors that were a full 19", so the school usually set them to 1024x768 instead of 800x600. At the same time, folding.extremeoverclocking was still doing 1000 teams on a single page. my pally 1800+ system thought this was just fine and dandy... but the eMacs thought it was the worst thing possible; it would take me a minute to scroll down to SPCR unless I accidentaly moved the mouse over the point numbers, in which case it would take 2 or 3.

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Post by Beyonder » Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:37 pm

Yep, macs aren't going to burn PC's in raw speed any time soon (real-world benchmarks I've seen show the dual mac significantly behind even single processor xeon systems--and the opteron is 64 bit, which sort of takes the wind out of mac's "only 64 bit personal computer" claim), but I think both platforms have their markets. I personally really like OS-X, and wish windows would adopt some of the characteristics of it....and, let's be honest: the mac laptops are a pretty kick arse product. My friend has one, and it really is a nice machine.


As for "styling," I have a chili professional case in annodized T6090 aluminum and hidden drives. I'll take the stylistic taste test with a mac any day of the week--oh, and mine is deadly silent to boot. :D

I don't think it's that hard to get nice PC cases--you just have to pay a bit, which most people don't seem to be too privy too.

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Post by Rusty075 » Mon Aug 18, 2003 5:26 am

I agree with beyonder. I think that innovative, well designed PC cases are out there, but its a niche market. Most people are not willing to spend $300 on a case, so the manufacturers go after the "meaty" part of the market, the $50 to $150 range.

How much do you think the G5 case would cost if you could buy just that? Considering the fact that Used G4 cases cost $130, I'd bet it'd be alot more than most people would ever pay.

But I still want to see one of those fans up close. :lol:

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Post by Beyonder » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:32 pm

The nice thing about dropping the cash on a nice case though is that you end up with something that'll look good and work good for a LONG time.

I've had my case for about two years now (?) and I still get compliments on it. I'd like to mod it with a HD LCD display in the front (like, xga res), but they're too bling-bling for my tastes at the moment (no way in hell am I dropping three hundred bucks for a seven inch screen).

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Post by fmah » Mon Aug 18, 2003 6:54 pm

I think a new G5 case would probably be $399-$499 or something like that.

I've had my generic looking Inwin tower case since about 98 I think.

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Post by MikeK » Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:58 pm

My bud is now using my parents' old Gateway tower case. It's from when the pentium120 was the fastest thing out there. It is tall and narrow and has a broad flat column running up the front of the bottom half, it looks pretty imposing. He modded it for his mobo IO connects and has a Dually Tyan Athlon MP 2400s (they used to be XPs :) system in it now with SCSI and the whole bit, it's a mean machine. That case was from around 94 95 or something and just recently lost it's original parts.

MikeK

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Post by schnee » Thu Aug 21, 2003 1:34 pm

Rusty075 wrote:Just to be difficult, I'm going to suggest that my 7 year old Aopen beige box is a better example of case design than the new G5. Really.
Oh please. :roll:

The G5 is the ultimate example of what can be done when an engineering team can throw out the ATX spec and design for the new hot machines. All the silencing work we do is so inhibited by the interior layout of current PCs that never dreamed of the heat being put out now.

Saying your cheapo beige box is better than a G5 is like saying your VW 'IT' is better than a BMW because you can interchange fenders and stuff. Sure, the beige box is 'better' if you define 'better' as 'the things I think are valuable are good and I discount every other opinion.' The reality is the Mac case is better in every way, with the caveat that you pay for quality. Reverse snobbery is still snobbery...

I bet you that if any silentPC enthusiast had absolute free reighn to design a case to be quiet and cool it'd look remarkably similar to the G5 (well, with more HD space at least :twisted: ). In fact, I bet if a PC came out like it you'd spooge. But, like most other PC zealouts, you criticize the Mac because, well, it's a Mac.

Also, you forget one thing... Macs have a MUCH MUCH longer shelf-life than PCs. Most Mac users I know have kept them 3-4 years, and people with more than one have even older ones than that. So, that higher initial price is definitely ofset by the longer usefulness of the machine.

Oh hell, why do I try. I'll just sit here with both my PC (P4 workstation) and Mac (Powerbook G4) and appreciate each one for what they are, instead of making up reasons to dislike the other to feel cool.

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Post by sbabb » Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:09 pm

Heh.

We'll all be able to get G5-ish cases in another year or so when the various PC manufacturers start copying Apple. Again. If you want to know what Hewlett Compaqard is going to do next year, look at what Apple is doing today. Although I think it took Compaq less than a year to copy the original Apple laptop design...

I'm all in favor of Apple innovating and pushing the edge. Someone has to.

Nothing against the XP1900 (I'm running one) but it's about 32 bits short of being more powerful than a G5. 8)

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Post by Rusty075 » Thu Aug 21, 2003 4:05 pm

schnee wrote:The G5 is the ultimate example of what can be done when an engineering team can throw out the ATX spec and design for the new hot machines.
I agree that the ATX spec is limiting. But the G5 case is hardly what I'd call "ultimate" for several reasons:

1. It requires 9 fans (!) to cool a machine that is producing less heat than the dually Xeon that is sitting next to me. (which Dell finds a way to cool very quietly with only 3 fans)

2. If it was "the ultimate" case design it would be adaptable to future advancements in internals. But it's not. We all know that the next Mac will need a completely new case.

3. It does the same job that a $25 case would, yet would cost 15 times that (if Apple would sell you just that).


Now reread my first post and notice that I never said I didn't like Macs, or even that I didn't like the G5 in particular. I was making a point that even with all the "engineering" that went into it, it's still only successful in a limited way.
schnee wrote:Sure, the beige box is 'better' if you define 'better' as 'the things I think are valuable are good and I discount every other opinion.'
Any time you critique a design some elements have to be given higher prioity than others. It would be very rare in an object as complex and multifaceted as this for one design to be the best possible solution to every design problem.

But don't let that stop you....
schnee wrote:The reality is the Mac case is better in every way, with the caveat that you pay for quality.
Nust to further goat you, please explain to me the ways in which the G5 case is better than every ATX case ever built. Except for being overpriced, underperforming, and unupgradeable, then yes, it is better in every way. (?) But it is pretty, I'll give it that.
schnee wrote:I bet you that if any silentPC enthusiast had absolute free reighn (sic) to design a case to be quiet and cool it'd look remarkably similar to the G5
Actually if you'd look around here for a bit you'd see examples of plenty of people who have scratch built their own cases. And none of them needs 9 fans to keep cool.
schnee wrote:In fact, I bet if a PC came out like it you'd spooge. But, like most other PC zealouts, you criticize the Mac because, well, it's a Mac.
Again, please reread my first post. Read it twice if you need to. I'm not a "PC Zealot". I've owned and used Macs. I like Macs. Most of the problems I have with Macs stem from 2 things: Apple marketing, which feels that it can outright lie to the general public, and "Mac-heads" who jump to the attack whenever someone says anything slightly negative about their beloved company. If mac users acted less like cult members more people would probably be willing to use them.
schnee wrote:Also, you forget one thing... Macs have a MUCH MUCH longer shelf-life than PCs. Most Mac users I know have kept them 3-4 years, and people with more than one have even older ones than that.
When you have to wait 3 years for the next model to come out you kinda have to keep the old one longer. And besides, I never said PC's had a longer lifespan anyway. If anything PC lifespans are entirely too short. I said PC cases do. (Again, please reread my first post)


schnee wrote:I'll just sit here with both my PC (P4 workstation) and Mac (Powerbook G4) and appreciate each one for what they are, instead of making up reasons to dislike the other to feel cool.
Once again (for the last time I swear) please reread my first post. I use both pc's and mac's as well. Don't get so defensive. People can criticize your cult without saying that the whole thing is bad. It's called "constructive" criticism.

(and what reasons did I "make up" anyway? None of your response dealt in any way with factual errors on my part. You expressed you opinions about my opinions, but by definition opinions are just made up, aren't they?)

I'm sure you'll have to respond to this, but please try to keep it civil this time.

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Post by Beyonder » Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:22 am

schnee wrote: Also, you forget one thing... Macs have a MUCH MUCH longer shelf-life than PCs. Most Mac users I know have kept them 3-4 years, and people with more than one have even older ones than that. So, that higher initial price is definitely ofset by the longer usefulness of the machine.


I've been using the same P2-400 since early 98', if I'm not mistaken....almost six years. It has gotten a new video card, new hard drive, and more RAM, but the chip and motherboard are good ol' Intel iron. Heh. :D


Still does what I need it to well--even plays DVD's pretty damn good. Counter Strike runs like a champ.....:D

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Post by kamina » Fri Sep 26, 2003 3:02 am

I really like the design of the G5 case, the engineering really has a pro-touch feeling to it, and it looks superb.

I'm not going to get into mac's, I think they are not very good value for money, but I would love to be running osX on my pc...

I don't think they really would have needed 9 fans for the computer. The G5 processors are very close to opterons and athlon64's. (speed, soi ect.) I would'nt be suprised if the chips where actually running very cool. A guy from my work was just reviewing the athlon64 fx and said it never went over 40 degreese with the stock heatsink, would'nt be suprised if the situation was the same for the apple.

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