A blend of old and new school techniques

Show off your quiet rig.

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ntavlas
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A blend of old and new school techniques

Post by ntavlas » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:30 pm

update 6/8/08 -Yet more changes

Seems like my previous setup wans`t that fool proof after all. I was experiencing artifacts in 3d without particularly stressing the card. The problem persisted even after turning the aircon on and letting the fans run at full speed. My 7600gs was dying on me...

The gpu itself never exceeded 60 degrees c, neither did the ram/mosfets ran very hot. I suspect the pci-e to agp bridge was the failing component. It received very little airflow being close to the motherboard and as a result run scorching hot.

Eventually I replaced the card with a 2600pro. This time I played it safe: I avoided passively cooling the card though I did replace the stock fan:
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Adding an 8cm fan was easy:
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Re-mounted with some arctic silver 5:
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I experienced no further problems after replacing the card though something else became apparent: in the middle of summer with ambient temps in excess of 35 degrees my cooling solution just didn`t cut it. I ended up turning the fan up to 1200rpm. So in the end I thought it would be better to revert to my old setup with multiple fans.

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update 7/4/08 -Remounting the heatsink and other refinements

I was a little obsessive about noise the last time so I wanted to make some refinements resulting in a more fool-proof setup.
I wasn`t happy with the temps of the northbridge while one of the sensors reported 82 degrees under load. I had to sort it out or I was going to fry something.

It turned out that this was the temperature of the cpu! I didn`t know my cpu had one, but after some research I discovered that the barton core does indeed have an on die diode. I immediately suspected that my heatsink sagged. Removing it quickly confirmed that, the lower half of the cpu was devoid of any thermal paste which was pushed away by the weight of the heatsink.

Part of the problem was my improvised mounting method which used the old style bracket of a much smaller h/s. It was my only option but I did manage to find a more steardy one, so steardy that it took an incredible amount of pressure to attach it on the socket. Since my cpu has no heat spreader that got me really nervous! To avoid repeating this torture in the future I suspended the h/s, doesn`t look like it`s going anywhere now!

I quickly turned on my computer and run speedfan. I loaded the cpu and the diode reported 49 degrees: that was a difference of 33, astonishing!

Now I could address the rest of the hotspots on the board: I removed the I/O shield to encourage some airflow around the mosfets. I used a small fan on the northbridge, part of the cooler of my old vga. Even after being seriously undervolted it made a lot of difference: the northbridge went from burning hot to barely warm.

Next was adding some subtle ducts: one the cpu h/s to prevent hot air from entering the psu. Another one on the I/O shield to guide air to the area around the socket. I also added a small baffle on the psu fan, similar to the one on the corsair or newer seasonics. It was a good thing to do: the exhausted air got warmer, but the psu itself was cooler. It seems that a big part of the airflow bypassed the components inside before the mod.

Finally I repaired my fan controller and put it back into action. I used the rpm reporting cable of the molex to 3 pin adaptor that came with the s-flex fans so I could now read the fan speed.

On to the pics:

Overview of the system where you can see the ducts, heatsink suspension and small northbridge fan:
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The pci slot area works as a passive intake. Air drawn thanks to negative pressure is enough to cool the vga and hard drive.
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Back of the system where you can (just) make out the psu baffle. You can also see the duct around the I/O ports, my other passive intake cooling the mosfets.
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Exterior: The HEC 6A19 should be a familiar face. The akasa fan controller was spray painted mat black.
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Finally the temperatures: a big improvement, all the components are now properly cooled. The fan speed increased a little as the fan controller can`t go as low as the 5-volt mod. But the system is still inaudible under most conditions.

CPU is an Athlon XP Barton core @2ghz with 54 watts typical consumption, 68 watts maximum.

Ambient temperature:
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Idle:
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Load:
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update 10/11/07 -I`m now a happy camper

The quiet night I was waiting has finally arrived. I did the most strict test I could and in the process I discovered a previously inaudible noise: the buzzing of my UPS unit. So it`s time to say goodbye to it.

Now, I listened to my computer from 15, 50 cm and finally from 1 meter which is the normal distance between it and my ears.

From 15 centimeters I could make out all the noise sources. The buzzing of the motherboard, the whoosh of the exhaust fan and the whine of my disk drive.

On to 50 centimeters: The buzzing noise is not perceivable anymore. I can (just) make out the sum of hdd and fan noise, though I can not distinguish it`s components anymore.
Perceiving this broadband noise takes a lot of effort and concentration. Even turning the pc on and off is not enough. I need to move my ears to the previous 15cm position, concentrate on the emitted sound and quietly move away trying not to loose focus.
I needed to repeat this quite a few times as even the slightest breath or sound made by my body moving spoiled the whole process.

Needless to say that from one meter I could not perceive any noise coming from the pc no matter how hard I tried.
To put things into perspective, even from half a meter, while I could eventually hear my computer, it was a faint sound compared to ambient noise (which was already very low) and much, much quieter than the slightest breathing sound I made. A whisper would be deafening by comparison!

I think this is the end of silencing this computer. I really didn`t expect that I could come this far, especially without using some kind of solid state storage. I am very excited and to this site and it`s audience. It`s time to say a big Thank you and hope that my experience will be useful to others as well as motivating.

Update #3 27/10/07

There`s either a conspiracy against me or I`m getting paranoid (hard guess eh?). During an oh-so-quiet night I was able to hear my fans running while I previously thought they were inaudible. I already knew the skythe fan was quieter than the papst, so I did the swap. Actually it wasn`t excactly a swap since I removed all but the exhaust fan. Of course reducing fan noise would only be useful if I also addressed the hard disk noise which was the primary noise source. I blocked the front intake, mounted the disk directly on foam and put an inactive 3,5' drive on it. This is how it looks like.

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Compared to the previous setup there is definately an improvement primarily because of the disk silencing and intake blocking. I can`t tell yet if the pc is inaudible though, I need to wait for a quieter night. The temps have remained pretty much unchanged @25 ambient. The voltage regulation area is pretty hot at 80 degrees though and I estimate the northbridge to be somewhere in the 70ies.

Update #2 6/9/07

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Added more dampening and adjusted all fans trying to reach the threshold of my hearing. The room`s acoustics are very unforgiving but I was able to reach a point where I couldn`t hear computer when turned on/off.

Now to the HDD. Dampening helped but to a limited extent. I was curious if the disk sandwich suggested would work. I tried it first outside and noted that the noise frequency changed a lot(higher), though the improvement was moderate. Once I put it inside the case the improvement was considerable. It`s probably because the case dampening handles those frequencies better. The temperatures are also very good, at idle it barely raises above ambient, staying under 35c under load.

The disk sandwich was the most impactful of the modifications(since it was addressing the loudest component). After a tough test, I could tell the system running but at this point it requires concentration.

Update #1 1/8/07

Switched the power supply fan, it`s much quieter now while still running at about the same rpm. Unfortunately, while I estimated that the system would be inaudible from 1m, I can hear the hard drive. But a 5400rpm scorpio is about the best we can get and I`m not ready to invest in SSD yet.

Original story:

After posting here for a couple of weeks I thought I`d share my quiet computer. As you can see in my signature it is an old machine which doesn`t produce that much heat. My goal was to make the system inaudible from where I sit, even during the early morning hours.

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The cooling configuration is nothing extraordinary, a pair of intake and exhaust fans and a cheap but sufficient for my needs tower heatsink. An analog controler keeps the fans running at 6volts and about 600rpm. Finally, I carried over the sound insulating foam from my previous case.

I did face some challenges however. In the beginning I couldn`t mount the cpu cooler in the direction I wanted, facing the exhaust fan. I had to throw away the original bracket which used 4 screws to mount directly on the pcb. I employed the bracket of an old zalman cooler instead which clipped on the socket and a cable to support the weight of the heatsink.
I did run it passively once, in an older case, using only an 8cm exhaust fan and the psu fans turned off. Needless to say it was by accident, but I finished a whole game before I realized it! The heatsink was damn hot after I was done but had no stability problems. Now it barely gets warm even under sustained load on the cpu.

The next challenges were quieting the hard drive and vga. Quieting the hard drive was easy, I simply swapped it for a laptop one. I mounted it on foam for good measure and connected it to the case with a cable for earthing purposes. (edit) When I posted my old system I mentioned that mounting a 3,5' drive on foam eliminated vibration. Not in this case though.

Quieting the vga was harder as most of the coolers including the zalman vf-900 I tried didn`t support my agp card. I did keep the zalman for a while but I had to bend the pcb, to make it fit. I measured the temps @6v and removed it. I ended up modding an old celeron stock cooler. I mounted it using some long screws between the fins secured by bolts. Another set of bolts adjusted the distance from the pcb while the springs from the zalman cooler applied the necessary pressure. After some fine tuning I was able to get it right. It performs pretty well. Provided with roughly the same airflow as the zalman (by that mediocre ac fan @5volts) it managed an identical idle temp of 37c and 49c at load (47 for the zalman, both @22ambient). It also shows how efficient the vf-900 is. It performs slightly better but weighs less then half of my ghetto cooler!

Now it is time to answer the famous question: how quiet is it? Well, it is inaudible 99.9% of the time. I can hear it early in the morning, if I shut down all other appliances in the house, including vital ones like the fridge. I also need to close the windows. Which component is responsible for the audible noise? It is the seasonic psu. (edit) though less audible than in the aluminium case. After I stop the psu fan, the computer is inaudible from more than half a meter, even under the conditions I mentioned. All this is rather irrelevant now however. When I decided to silence my computer, I was a freelancer and often worked all night on it. Now I have a daytime job. I am rarely awake at the times I can hear it and when I am, I do other things, if you know what I mean :). But making it quiet is something I enjoyed a lot, and I will continue doing it even if the advantages are only going to be theoritical from now on :)
Last edited by ntavlas on Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:53 am, edited 16 times in total.

ronrem
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Post by ronrem » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:24 pm

Solid

Nothing real radical here but a nice example of how addressing all the noise sources can really add up. O didn't see what the CPU is...XP? P4? Celeron?

It's worth note that a current Sempron probably runs cooler with as much power---and the coming 65 nm Sempys will be so cool you could chill beers in the case....... :roll: .....okay..not THAT cool but mighty cool.

Chilling out 4 yr old stuff is quite a challenge

ntavlas
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Post by ntavlas » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:30 pm

The cpu is a semptron, basically a rebranded xp2800. It`s a 130nm cpu. It`s max power consumption is around the high 60ies, typical in the low 50ies. Not that much different a dual core cpu except i get one core less :)

thejamppa
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Post by thejamppa » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:00 pm

Nice and clean. Its not that easy to quiet AMD XP's due lack of good coolers (Thermalright SI-97A and SLK-947U there isn't much choice. Old revisions from Thermaltake Sonic Tower and Big Typhoon are probably only 120mm heatpipe cooler's for socket A. And due very tight finspace they are not most quiet one. Although I used both I were quiet suprised how well they performed, considering they were thermaltakes.

But that is nice set-up. I like how you've arranged your 7600gs cooling.

ame
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Post by ame » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:36 pm

nice build.

What is your impression of the TT Sonic Tower- would you recomend it, did you experiment with mounting the fan in the middle of it between the two sinks?

lor77
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Post by lor77 » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:40 am

Nice overall built.
My proposition for silencing in a greater extend the hd before investing in SSD drives is trying an enclosure.
The Scythe Quite drive for 2.5 inc drive can lower your noise signature in a greater extend so you can try that also.
You can even try to sandwich a 3.5 enclosure to a 2.5 enclosure for a greater result.
http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/hdd/0 ... etail.html

ntavlas
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Post by ntavlas » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:17 am

thank you for the comments and feedback.

The sonic tower is not well adapted to socket A because on most motherboards, it will face the power supply. It is possible to use it efficiently in a p18x case using the top exaust or by modding it. It`s fin density is balanced out by lower surface so it performs well on low rpm. I would recommend it to a socketA user but not to someone with a modern board.

I plan to try mounting the fan in the middle of the sink.

I'd like to experiment with more elaborate disk silencing also.

aburgard
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Post by aburgard » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:29 am

How do those quiet HDD enclosures deal with heat? I have a Nexus enclosure that I'm not even using right now. I'm currently building a HTPC and considering using it in there.

ntavlas
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Post by ntavlas » Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:05 pm

The last couple of quiet nights allowed me to do a tough test on the acoustic performance. The last time I could hear the fans working. After fine tuning them and dampening the case I was able to pass the 1m test.

The hard disk sandwich made a big difference in noise. At this time the system is close to inaudible. I read that the skythe enclosures are quite effective and handle heat well.

I`ll do a little update because I was able to draw useful conclusions.

ntavlas
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Post by ntavlas » Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:25 am

A little update.

bonestonne
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Post by bonestonne » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:23 am

from the pictures, i would have flipped the power supply over if possible [if it has a 120mm fan thats different] but i would want the cables coming from the wall and kept there rather than stretching across the path of airflow.

that sandwich you have for the drives...why not just keep the 2.5" drive sandwiched in a foam enclosure? i wouldn't want such a tiny fragile drive between two monsters like that.

ntavlas
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Post by ntavlas » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:40 am

Yep, it would help on the cable mess. It`s a 12cm fan power supply, though I would like to turn it upside down after drilling an intake on the top of the case.

The 3,5 drives are not that heavy. I don`t use the sandwich anymore but I still keep one 3,5' drive above. I need the mass to absorb some of the noise.

ntavlas
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Post by ntavlas » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:54 am

I am writing a final update as I think I finally reached my target: unless I move to a quieter neighborhood (unlikely) or my hearing improves (very unlikely) my computer is now inaudible! I would also like to thank you all for sharing the knowledge that made this possible!

ntavlas
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Post by ntavlas » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:49 am

update

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