Xigmate[k] availability

[Emyr]

I can't seem to find UK stockists for Xigmatech products.

I've been considering the HDT-S1283 or HDT-S1284 for my AMD X2 4200+ (2.2GHz) but the only place I found selling them over here has deleted them from its catalogue in the last month.

I haven't got a ruler to measure my case yet, but I'll need to check that I can fit a 159mm tall unit in.

the S1283 is 50mm deep, with 3 fat heatpipes.
the S1284 is 60mm deep, with 4 fat heatpipes.

Seeing as I don't know how much they'd cost, do you guys think it's worth the extra, given the 89W TDP?

[lodestar]

It's Xigmatek, not Xigmatech.

I have no connection with them other than as a customer but Scan carry these products. They have the HDT-S1283 http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=700899 for £23.

They don't have the S1284, but then neither it seems does anybody else in the UK.

[m0002a]

It's Xigmatek, not Xigmatech.

I have no connection with them other than as a customer but Scan carry these products. They have the HDT-S1283 http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=700899 for £23.

They don't have the S1284, but then neither it seems does anybody else in the UK.

I am sure this has been discussed before, but can anyone explain why things are always much more expensive in the EU/UK than in the US? This HS is made in Asia, and the price on www.newegg.com is $35 USD with free shipping (and $25 after $10 mail-in-rebate). That is about half the price of the Scan price.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835233003

[jessekopelman]

I am sure this has been discussed before, but can anyone explain why things are always much more expensive in the EU/UK than in the US?

* VAT
* Customs/tariffs
* People getting used to paying a premium from the early heyday of PC enthusiasm when the dollar was much stronger and stores seeing no reason to sacrifice profits while demand is still strong at the old pricing
* Less of a culture of cut-throat pricing -- the US is fully Walmartized where people will buy any old crap/accept crappy service as long as it is cheap and those wanting to compete in the mainstream must be price-conscious

[m0002a]

* VAT

OK, that may account for some amount of it (about 17%?), and they get more government services in return.

* Customs/tariffs

Do you really think they are higher in UK/EU? Don't they believe in free trade? These things are coming from Asia.

* People getting used to paying a premium from the early heyday of PC enthusiasm when the dollar was much stronger and stores seeing no reason to sacrifice profits while demand is still strong at the old pricing

I don't understand what the dollar has to do with it since this particular HS is made in Asia, just as are many computer components.

* Less of a culture of cut-throat pricing -- the US is fully Walmartized where people will buy any old crap/accept crappy service as long as it is cheap and those wanting to compete in the mainstream must be price-conscious

I don't agree with your characterization that people in the US will buy any old crap if it is cheap. The good retailers and good manufacturers survive, and the bad ones don't. Seems to me that retailers like Newgg are making a bundle of money. In fact, it seems that people in the UK/EU will pay "any old" price for reasons that you have not explained.

[thejamppa]

Main reason for EU price being so high:

- Customs and Tariff's that wuill be paid for anything that comes out of schengen-treaty area. Example Asia and America's.
- VAT ( dependaple on country itself some might have 17% VAT, FInland has 22% VAT for computer and such things )
- Shipping Cost / Retailer cost.

EU's custom's and VAT policy is quite harsh. In Finland our VAT for computer parts is meager 22%. That sucks.

Xigmatek is also found in otherbrands. OCZ, Akasa, Nexus, Rosewill and who knows who sell re-branded Xigmatek coolers.

[Emyr]

It's Xigmatek, not Xigmatech.

Doh. And Google could only "correct" the X to an S...

I've spotted the OCZ Vendetta and OCZ Vendetta 2; I assume the latter is the S1283?

[m0002a]

Main reason for EU price being so high:

- Customs and Tariff's that wuill be paid for anything that comes out of schengen-treaty area. Example Asia and America's.
- VAT ( dependaple on country itself some might have 17% VAT, FInland has 22% VAT for computer and such things )
- Shipping Cost / Retailer cost.

EU's custom's and VAT policy is quite harsh. In Finland our VAT for computer parts is meager 22%. That sucks.

Xigmatek is also found in otherbrands. OCZ, Akasa, Nexus, Rosewill and who knows who sell re-branded Xigmatek coolers.

We have shipping costs also, and typically goods are shipped a longer distance in the US from the retailer to the customer, simply because of the size of the US.

Sales tax (sort of like VAT) is about 8% (rates are determined at state and city level) if we purchase in a regular store. If we purchase on the internet, then we only pay sales tax if we live in the same state as the retailer (but if a retailer has any physical presence in our state, they we have to pay sales tax, even on the internet).

However, I don't think this accounts for all the price differences, but I am not exactly sure what does. I suspect that fully assembled PC's from the major manufacturers cost a lot closer to the price in the US, but I am not sure.

[nici]

The US is a much bigger market and the retailers are much bigger companies, so they buy much larger quantities of products, thus getting a cheaper price and thus are able to sell them for less and still get good profits because of the larger amount of product sold. High margin low volume, low margin high volume and all that.. That's one one reason for the price difference at least.

[m0002a]

The US is a much bigger market and the retailers are much bigger companies, so they buy much larger quantities of products, thus getting a cheaper price and thus are able to sell them for less and still get good profits because of the larger amount of product sold. High margin low volume, low margin high volume and all that.. That's one one reason for the price difference at least.

I thought that the EU was supposed to change that?

[thejamppa]

The US is a much bigger market and the retailers are much bigger companies, so they buy much larger quantities of products, thus getting a cheaper price and thus are able to sell them for less and still get good profits because of the larger amount of product sold. High margin low volume, low margin high volume and all that.. That's one one reason for the price difference at least.

I thought that the EU was supposed to change that?

EU supposed to change a lot but fact is EU is fast becoming leftist community of several ethnic groups which well... resembles more Soviet Union than United States, which was bit goal of EU and the infamous Lissbon treaty...

[nici]

There are big e-tailers in Europe like there is in the US of A, but none as big as the biggest over there. And then thereäs the issue of a crapload of different languages spoken in Europe. If you buy something form inside the EU, you only pay the taxes to the country you buy from and no customs or anything like that in your own country, and the Euro makes comparing prices easier.(though i still dislike the Euro) Also warranties can be a problem as the local importers don't want you to buy from other countires(and pay a lot less) so even though they should honor the warranty of product bought inside the EU they dont want to do that for "grey imports".

[kimx]

Denmark got a 25% VAT

[dukla2000]

I am sure this has been discussed before, but can anyone explain why things are always much more expensive in the EU/UK than in the US?

OK, I'll bite. VAT.

Plain and simple. As long as my fellow citizens keep abdicating personal responsibility to a nanny state we will have to live with higher taxes than the US. I recall a recent article that said services provided via the state are typically 30% more expensive than the same service provided by private industry, but cant find a link offhand.

I must say comparing the 1283 at Scan to Newegg looks 'bad', but Scan is not necessarily the cheapest UK e-tailer and things get skewed by Newegg mail-in rebate and free shipping on this item.

To cause an argument let me compare a mobo have my eye on, the Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2H. Today this is $64.90 at Newegg with $8.25 shipping. It is £41.95 at ebuyer with £4.79 supersaver delivery (I don't have any preference or affiliation to ebuyer or Scan or Newegg, and have happily used ebuyer and Scan in the past. Note ebuyer has 'free' shipping for orders over £49.99 - to keep things simple I will ignore shipping costs!) Now the exchange rate today is £1=$1.8229, so the Newegg board looks like £35.60. Add VAT and it is £41.83. QED.

To cause another argument the S1283 is available for £14.99 on ebay! (Seller in London, But it Now price).

[jessekopelman]

* Customs/tariffs

Do you really think they are higher in UK/EU? Don't they believe in free trade? These things are coming from Asia.

On certain items, yes they are higher. No, most people (including many in the US) do not believe in free trade. Nor should they, necessarily. Economics is not religion. One may think something is a good idea, but there is no reason to be dogmatic. Free trade is a relatively new idea, by the way. The entire US government was funded by tariffs and duties in the early 19th Century.

* People getting used to paying a premium from the early heyday of PC enthusiasm when the dollar was much stronger and stores seeing no reason to sacrifice profits while demand is still strong at the old pricing

I don't understand what the dollar has to do with it since this particular HS is made in Asia, just as are many computer components.

What the dollar has to do with it is math. If I make a product that I want to sell in the US and the EU for the same price, let's say $100, and $1 = E1.3, that product will cost E130. Now, let's say the dollar is now only worth E0.7 but my EU customers are used to paying E130. Instead of lowering my price to E70 to keep things equal and maybe hurting my profits (since who knows how my own currency is doing relative to the Euro) I just keep the price at E130. The price may now seem ridiculous compared to the US price, once the exchange rate is applied, but remember that the EU customers are already used to paying the E130 price. By the same token, I may well be losing money in the US because I kept my price at $100 even as the dollar declined against my own currency, just because people are used to paying $100 and I'm not sure they'd buy at a higher price.

* Less of a culture of cut-throat pricing -- the US is fully Walmartized where people will buy any old crap/accept crappy service as long as it is cheap and those wanting to compete in the mainstream must be price-conscious

I don't agree with your characterization that people in the US will buy any old crap if it is cheap. The good retailers and good manufacturers survive, and the bad ones don't. Seems to me that retailers like Newgg are making a bundle of money. In fact, it seems that people in the UK/EU will pay "any old" price for reasons that you have not explained.

Of course, what I said was an oversimplification. Still you can't argue with Americans love of cheap crap. Anyway, being a good retailer is far from a direct correlation to have quality merchandise. Ever look at what they sell in McDonalds, Old Navy, Target and Walmart (to name just some of the biggest)? I shop there too, because sometimes you don't need quality. Even Newegg is full of stuff that really shouldn't be sold. Just look at all the products with 1 or 2 star average reviews. These still appear to sell well enough that Newegg continues to stock them. Meanwhile there are competing products with 4 and 5 star reviews that only cost 20% more, but again people still buy the cheap crap because to many people saving 20% (even at the cost of quality) is a good trade. I've often bought stuff that had a real chance of not working just because I wanted to save $5 (which percent-wise is a big deal on a $15 item, but not really rational). It's a cultural thing; like drinking wine at McDonalds or still being in love with smoking.

[m0002a]

What the dollar has to do with it is math. If I make a product that I want to sell in the US and the EU for the same price, let's say $100, and $1 = E1.3, that product will cost E130. Now, let's say the dollar is now only worth E0.7 but my EU customers are used to paying E130. Instead of lowering my price to E70 to keep things equal and maybe hurting my profits (since who knows how my own currency is doing relative to the Euro) I just keep the price at E130. The price may now seem ridiculous compared to the US price, once the exchange rate is applied, but remember that the EU customers are already used to paying the E130 price. By the same token, I may well be losing money in the US because I kept my price at $100 even as the dollar declined against my own currency, just because people are used to paying $100 and I'm not sure they'd buy at a higher price.

What you say makes sense if the manufacturer owns the distribution channel in each country the product is sold. For example German auto manufacturers have tried to keep the prices of their cars made in the EU to about the same prices in the US even though the dollar has decreased significantly, for the reasons you explained above.

But in the case of most computer components (such as the Xigmatek HS), that is not the situation. The distributor in the EU buys the product from the manufacturer at whatever the cost is, which is the same regardless of where the distributor is located. The only reasonable explanation for the price being so high in the EU is lack of competition. In the US, a distributor or retailer is more likely to decrease prices in order to increase sales volume, or even create sales volume from zero for a new business venture (which is much more likely to occur in the US than in the EU for cultural and regulatory reasons).

Of course, what I said was an oversimplification. Still you can't argue with Americans love of cheap crap. Anyway, being a good retailer is far from a direct correlation to have quality merchandise. Ever look at what they sell in McDonalds, Old Navy, Target and Walmart (to name just some of the biggest)? I shop there too, because sometimes you don't need quality. Even Newegg is full of stuff that really shouldn't be sold. Just look at all the products with 1 or 2 star average reviews. These still appear to sell well enough that Newegg continues to stock them. Meanwhile there are competing products with 4 and 5 star reviews that only cost 20% more, but again people still buy the cheap crap because to many people saving 20% (even at the cost of quality) is a good trade. I've often bought stuff that had a real chance of not working just because I wanted to save $5 (which percent-wise is a big deal on a $15 item, but not really rational). It's a cultural thing; like drinking wine at McDonalds or still being in love with smoking.

You mean "shouldn't be purchased" or "shouldn't be sold." Since when is it someone's business to tell retailers they should not sell a product if people want to buy it?

Regarding the reviews on Newegg (and elsewhere) many of the poor reviews are written by people who don't know how to use or set up the product. There are a lot more idiot reviews out there than there are bad products. Other times they are downgraded for reasons that are not relevant to the use that some other people may intend for the product. And don't discount the fact that some companies try to sabotage the reviews of competitive products.

Yes, I have been to Walmart and Target. I don't find the quality to be lower overall than most other stores (although it depends on what you are talking about). A lot of times they sell the exact same products as their competition. My local upscale grocery store, sells a lot more "store branded" products that Walmart, and at inflated prices.

Walmart makes money because they have the most automated and efficient distribution system in retail. At one time, WalMart had the largest non-military database in the world (maybe still do) and their suppliers can access that database online to see what products are being sold (or not being sold) at every store, each day. That enables them to price products more effectively, and so they can replenish the stock with "just-in-time" distribution methods without having to carry inventory charges. That is why Walmart can sell for less, not necessarily because their products are lower quality.

With regard to McDonald's, they sell "fast and clean." No one does that better than McDonald's overall. Food is not great, but great food is not what they are selling.

[maf718]

I've spotted the OCZ Vendetta and OCZ Vendetta 2; I assume the latter is the S1283?

Just in case you were still wondering, the answer is yes, but with a slower, quiter fan and redesigned fins.

Its not many threads that get swamped by a free-trade/economics /politics debate, lol. (That's not a criticism btw, just an observation).

[Emyr]

Hmmm. Was hoping the former would be the S1283 as the Vendetta 1 undercuts it by a few quid...

the V2 is about a fiver more, so I'll go with the Xigmatek when I get paid!

[jessekopelman]

What you say makes sense if the manufacturer owns the distribution channel in each country the product is sold. For example German auto manufacturers have tried to keep the prices of their cars made in the EU to about the same prices in the US even though the dollar has decreased significantly, for the reasons you explained above.

Why do you think the distributor has control of price, but not the manufacturer? You are too used to examples like Walmart where they can actually apply serious pressure on their vendors. In the PC parts business, prices are set by manufacturers, not retailers. Not to mention that in places like Taiwan very little is done to stop price fixing and if 99% of PC products are manufactured in such places, what can the retailer do?

You mean "shouldn't be purchased" or "shouldn't be sold." Since when is it someone's business to tell retailers they should not sell a product if people want to buy it?

People want to buy heroin, but most governments believe it is their business tell retailers they can't sell it. Unless you're voting for Bob Barr, you can't disagree too strongly.
Anyway, you're the one who brought up the idea that quality retailers can succeed even without the best price. A real "quality" retailer would not sell something they have good reason to believe is crap. I like Newegg and Amazon because they do publish the reviews and give me the ability to try and decide for myself what is or isn't worthwhile, but really: should they continue to carry things that are consistently low rated if there are viable alternatives? That is not quality.

Walmart makes money because they have the most automated and efficient distribution system in retail.

That is one reason. Another is that they have grown so large and ubiquitous that they can exert tremendous pressure on their vendors to give them low prices. The way Walmart negotiates with vendors is quite different than how smaller companies do it. Anyway, the real issue is not that Walmart succeeds because of how it gets its low prices, but because it has them and its shoppers are very price conscious. My argument is that European consumers do not give quite the same primacy to price and so their retailers are not compelled to be so price competitive. Still, if we go back to your original question, I think we will see that it is things like VAT and tariffs that are the main components of higher European prices and that lack of price-based competition is just icing on the cake.

[m0002a]

Why do you think the distributor has control of price, but not the manufacturer? You are too used to examples like Walmart where they can actually apply serious pressure on their vendors. In the PC parts business, prices are set by manufacturers, not retailers. Not to mention that in places like Taiwan very little is done to stop price fixing and if 99% of PC products are manufactured in such places, what can the retailer do?

As it turns out (after a little investigation), Xigmatek has its own distribution companies in USA, Germany, and Japan. You seem to be suggesting that these company-owned distributors will sell to retailers at a much lower price in the USA than in Germany. I suppose that is possible, but I would be surprised unless there are large EU tariffs involved (even the USA has some tariffs) or some kind of quantity discounts that only USA retailers can take advantage of.

People want to buy heroin, but most governments believe it is their business tell retailers they can't sell it. Unless you're voting for Bob Barr, you can't disagree too strongly.

Anyway, you're the one who brought up the idea that quality retailers can succeed even without the best price. A real "quality" retailer would not sell something they have good reason to believe is crap. I like Newegg and Amazon because they do publish the reviews and give me the ability to try and decide for myself what is or isn't worthwhile, but really: should they continue to carry things that are consistently low rated if there are viable alternatives? That is not quality.

It is a long way from saying that governments should be able ban the sale of heroin and therefore they have the right to ban the sale of $15 shirt sold at Walmart because the quality of construction is not as good as a $30 shirt sold at Macy's, even if the Macy's shirt lasts 5 times longer (unless there is some kind of safety or flammability issue involved).

I am fairly sure that Newegg will drop an item if it doesn't sell well or has a high RMA rate (which costs them money) without the government having to intervene in that decision making process. But even if Newegg did not drop a poorly selling product or a product with a high RMA rate, it is none of my business (and none of the governments business) to tell them what items they should be remove from their website (unless there is a safety, patent, or copyright, etc, issue involved). In some cases, a retailer could have an agreement in place to carry the entire product line of a manufacturer, even those products which are poor quality and don’t sell well.

As to whether a retailer can survive without the best price, it depends on what else they offer. I would buy from Newegg even if some other stores (depending on the store) has a lower price because Newegg has excellent customer service, fast shipping, and reasonable return policy. But if I can get a jar of Bertolli spaghetti sauce at Walmart for $2.15, I am not likely to buy the exact same Bertolli spaghetti sauce at my local upscale supermarket for $3.89 (unless I have drive a lot further to Walmart).

That is one reason. Another is that they have grown so large and ubiquitous that they can exert tremendous pressure on their vendors to give them low prices. The way Walmart negotiates with vendors is quite different than how smaller companies do it. Anyway, the real issue is not that Walmart succeeds because of how it gets its low prices, but because it has them and its shoppers are very price conscious. My argument is that European consumers do not give quite the same primacy to price and so their retailers are not compelled to be so price competitive. Still, if we go back to your original question, I think we will see that it is things like VAT and tariffs that are the main components of higher European prices and that lack of price-based competition is just icing on the cake.

I will admit that they do extract a lot of price pressure on retailers, especially for high volume items. But I don't agree that is the primary reason for their success, and that is not how they got so big in the first place.

Recently I purchased a Logitech mouse at Walmart for about $20.00 that was $5.00 cheaper than any other brick and mortar store I have seen it sold at. The Microsoft mice where equally cheaper than at other stores. I doubt that Walmart is able to put any pressure on Microsoft to lower their prices, other than getting whatever quantity discount that is available to all retailers. The same quantity discounts must be available to other retailers in order to be legal. We could argue all day about the quality of merchandise sold in Walmart, but I am talking about those items that are exactly the same sold in both Walmart and other stores (or in this thread the same HS sold in two different countries).

I agree that "that European consumers do not give quite the same primacy to price" but that is partly because there is more competition in the USA, and the concept of retailers being able to sell items for whatever price they want to (instead of manufacturer's suggested retail price) probably started in the US as a result of US Supreme Court rulings.

Anyway, we are off-topic so you can respond, but I don’t think I will continue this discussion here.

[jessekopelman]

You seem to be suggesting that these company-owned distributors will sell to retailers at a much lower price in the USA than in Germany.

That is exactly what I'm suggesting. That and once you factor in VAT being 2-3X higher than US State sales tax and mandatory you may find there is not much retail price discrepancy at all.

Recently I purchased a Logitech mouse at Walmart for about $20.00 that was $5.00 cheaper than any other brick and mortar store I have seen it sold at.

This is called a "loss leader'. Walmart is quite well known for them. You see them at many other retailer as well, including online stores. Being able to offer them on name brand products is very much a function of how much volume you do with that manufacturer.

I agree that "that European consumers do not give quite the same primacy to price" but that is partly because there is more competition in the USA

Or is it the reverse? What you blame on lack of competition could well be the result of consumer apathy. Marketing 101 is that it is better to try and sell people what they want rather than convince them to buy what you want to sell. Maybe getting the lowest price just isn't as important to European consumers as it is to US consumers? The EU is a larger market than North America, so there is certainly enough demand to support just as many retail choices as we have (and in many fields other than computer parts they have it). I think that implies that what they demand is not exactly the same as you or I.

[m0002a]

This is called a "loss leader'...

Damn. I promised not to respond, and now I have bit my tongue clean off.

[kittle]

That is one reason. Another is that they have grown so large and ubiquitous that they can exert tremendous pressure on their vendors to give them low prices. The way Walmart negotiates with vendors is quite different than how smaller companies do it.

Vendors and shippers.

I work for a container shipping company and Wallmart is one of our larger customers in terms of volume. I dont know what specific rates they get, but I guarantee its better per container than other low volume places.

I also remember an email or 2 about "wallmart wants this..." they are big & do lots of business so more often than not, they get what they want.

[m0002a]

We started out talking about the apparently large price difference of the Xigmatech HDT-S1283 in the US vs EU. The "evil" Walmart doesn't sell that product, so a lot of this discussion is irrelevant.