Yet AnotherÂ® what soundcard to buy? thread

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:35 am

Hello,

So this is What sound card should I buy thread number 4512

I did search first, but the few relevant threads were a bit old!

Here's the story:
I recently bought a pair of high quality (or so I think!) cans (Beyerdynamic DTX-800) so I'd like to match them with a good sound card.

I'll be using them for gaming (and a wee bit of music listening too).

My question is:
Is it worth buying the X-Fi over a simple Audigy 2 ZS? I've been looking at the Xonar DX too, as it has been having great reviews. Right now I'm using my MB's onboard codec (Soundmax AD1988B, which, being onboard should probably suck).

I'm only considering buying an actual sound card because of my brand new shiny Hi-Fi headphones

I'm going to include an "other" option although I don't quite see any other sound card fit for gaming

Let the bashing commence!

EDIT: Oh sorry! Almost forgot, I'm using Vista x64.

Cerb · Post by **Cerb** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:27 pm

The Xonar seems to getting a good bit of love at Head-fi, and seeing banks of bypass caps on it make me feel warm and fuzzy inside

. Later on, you could even hook it up to a nice amp. I don't know that the DTX-800 benefit much from a good amp, of course.

The Audigy 2 cards, except for the Platinum, were as bad for music as they were good for games. AFAIK, the X-Fis are OK.

Your onboard codec is probably pretty good, actually...but it's not just the chip, you see, it's how it is used. For gaming, it's not so big of a deal, but a nice DAC stage can help. For music, it can make a huge difference.

I don't have any problems with Asus as a business, so they got my vote.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:51 pm

I was told that the DTX-800 didn't require much amplification, that they were easily driven from a PC and they were recommended for PC use/gaming. (Pretty strange that a German product is only discussed on Australian websites/forums)

I'm pretty torn about the soundcard... on one hand I don't want to spend a lot of money on it (never had one before) and buy it now. On the other hand I know it's something I won't be upgrading soon so I want it to have good quality therefore it'll have to wait until I have some more $$$.

I just hope the Beyer don't sound too bad with my onboard sound.

Too bad the Xonar requires a floppy power connector, yuck!

Unfortunately the D1 (PCI version) isn't available to me.

widowmaker · Post by **widowmaker** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 12:54 pm

If you decide to get an Xfi make sure you get an Xfi. Some of them are branded as an Xfi but really are only an Audigy chip redressed. The Xfi Xtreme Audio is one example.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:00 pm

widowmaker wrote:If you decide to get an Xfi make sure you get an Xfi. Some of them are branded as an Xfi but really are only an Audigy chip redressed. The Xfi Xtreme Audio is one example.

Yes, I know. It would be either the XtremeMusic or XtremeGamer. The others are either rebranded Audigy crap or overpriced.

lm · Post by lm » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:45 pm

Since you will get the integrated audio with your motherboard anyway, try it first, and see if you really need a separate card? You can always buy the card later.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:35 pm

Cerb wrote:The Audigy 2 cards, except for the Platinum, were as bad for music as they were good for games. AFAIK, the X-Fis are OK.

Really? How come? Do you mean the Platinum or the Platinum Pro BTW?

sjoukew · Post by **sjoukew** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:08 am

Creative has a bad driver department. They will find a way do dis-satisfy you every time, at least they dissatisfied me for years.
No linux support, no or crappy vista support for 1 year, pay for your audigy vista driver etc. They will always find a way to dissatisfy a customer.

The only good thing is hardware accelerated sound in games. So if you really want the best sound for games, go for the x-fi. For the audio quality for music listening etc., don't buy creative.

Cerb · Post by **Cerb** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:58 am

rpsgc wrote:
Cerb wrote:The Audigy 2 cards, except for the Platinum, were as bad for music as they were good for games. AFAIK, the X-Fis are OK.
Really? How come? Do you mean the Platinum or the Platinum Pro BTW?

I think it was just Platinum, but this was awhile ago. Generally listening, with software SRC. The ZS just wasn't quite as quiet, and had a light sharpness to it.

Didn't know about the cheaper X-fi cards not being real X-fis!

sjoukew wrote:Creative has a bad driver department. They will find a way do dis-satisfy you every time, at least they dissatisfied me for years.
No linux support, no or crappy vista support for 1 year, pay for your audigy vista driver etc. They will always find a way to dissatisfy a customer.

Don't forget the many cards where you need something from the CD to use the updated downloadable driver; not acknowledging that the card you have in your hand, with a Creative logo on it, ever existed; their long-standing PCI problems, which only VIA was proud enough not to work around for the longest time. Then, buying competing companies, including by unethical means that might get them in real trouble if they were in a market that mainstream people cared about.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:05 am

Cerb wrote:Didn't know about the cheaper X-fi cards not being real X-fis!

And not just the cheaper ones either! The new Titanium (at least one of them) is just a rebranded PCI-E XtremeAudio, a slightly differente version of a XtremeAudio which in turn is just a rebranded Audigy SE.

God, Creative rocks, I wanna have her babies! They can fool people like no one else.

Arvo · Post by **Arvo** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:50 am

I voted for "Other".

This means that wait for M-Audio Revolution 5.1 (not 7.1) Vista64 drivers (hopefully not forever) and then buy it.
Or buy M-Audio Audiophile 2496 or similar card (based on VIA Envy24 chip with good DAC and opamps) and enjoy your headphones.

Creative X-Fi better cards (starting from Extreme Music) can be used of course, although many people (including me) prefer Envy24 based cards. Unfortunately I've not compared X-Fi to Revo5.1.

We (I and two friends) did compare Revo5.1 and one of the best mainstream onboard chips - Realtek ALC889A (GA-P35-DS3R). We used average stereo headphones on Vista32 and various lossless recordings. Revo sounded much better. I'm currently enjoying Revo5.1 with Grado SR80

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:58 am

Arvo wrote:This means that wait for M-Audio Revolution 5.1 (not 7.1) Vista64 drivers (hopefully not forever) and then buy it.
Or buy M-Audio Audiophile 2496 or similar card (based on VIA Envy24 chip with good DAC and opamps) and enjoy your headphones.

Eh...

rpsgc wrote:I'll be using them for gaming

The only reason I included the Audigy 2 ZS was because I can get it really cheap, 20 â‚¬, and Creative has released new Vista drivers and free Alchemy.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:54 am

I have just received my Beyerdynamic DTX-800. Whole different beast from my crappy old headset. Now I now how much my onboard sound sucks!

The minute I plugged them in I could hear noise (activity) from my computer (HDD). Eh, you know what they say about onboard sound

Now I want a new soundcard more than ever!

kittle · Post by **kittle** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:07 pm

Im curious what you will windup with for a soundcard.

My Audigy 2 Gamer card started causing all manner of blue screen errors so i replaced it with an X-FI card.
As I already had good quality home theater speakers for sound - I didnt hear much difference in sound quality, however the card puts out a MUCH stronger signal. The main volume is set at 50% where as before it was pushed all the way.

Ive also looked for a good mix of sound quality vs game performance, but I always come up blank.

I also have to see if i got one of those re-branded X-Fi card. Thanks widomaker

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:12 pm

I was thinking about the Audigy 2 for the cheap route but I'll more than likely get a Xonar DX. I won't sacrifice sound quality and clarity just to spend a few less euros.

If only I could control my cans' volume without an amp... :/ (and without messing with Windows' volume).

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:43 am

No love for the X-Fi I see... not even for the X-Fi Platinum? That I/O unit sure would come in handy

sjoukew · Post by **sjoukew** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:24 am

rpsgc wrote:No love for the X-Fi I see... not even for the X-Fi Platinum? That I/O unit sure would come in handy

What about: "We love the hardware, but hate the software"

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:31 am

I'm just afraid I might get a card with the crackling and popping issue :/

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:28 am

Ugh... I just got back from a very informative thread over at Asus' forums. It seems the Xonar has tons of problems in many games, all because of its selling feature, DS3D GX. Games only work properly with it disabled so what's the point in buying it? I want EAX... so I guess I'm stuck with Creative

Either Audigy 2 or X-Fi...

sjoukew · Post by **sjoukew** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:53 am

EAX only works in Windows XP.
M$ has changed vista in such a way EAX can't be used anymore, because it isn't there anymore.
MS has rewritten and redesigned the entire audio stack of vista. Now the only thing which is there is OpenAL.

To get sound from games which do use EAX, you need "Creative ALchemy".
Creative Alchemy needs to support a game, en when you alchemy it, it changes files in the game installation folder.
With this changed all EAX calls are changed to OpenAL calls and it works again, with cpu overhead.

The creative X-FI has 3 settings, game, entertainment and audio.
If you start a game with the card in entertainment or audio mode, the game simply crashes. You have to select the right setting and restart the game, then it starts to work.

Emyr · Post by **Emyr** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:11 am

sjoukew wrote:EAX only works in Windows XP.
To get sound from games which do use EAX, you need "Creative ALchemy".
Creative Alchemy needs to support a game, en when you alchemy it, it changes files in the game installation folder.
With this changed all EAX calls are changed to OpenAL calls and it works again, with cpu overhead.

Probably won't work with any game which uses Punkbuster then...

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:12 pm

sjoukew wrote:To get sound from games which do use EAX, you need "Creative ALchemy".

orly?

Licaon · Post by **Licaon** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:20 pm

Xonar DX or it's bigger brother D2

works fine in a multitude of OSes, i'm using it on Linux 64bit ( Debian Sid / Sidux ) and i tested it on Windows XP 32bit too

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:25 pm

Like I said in a previous post... http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id= ... uage=en-us

X-Fi doesn't look so bad right now.

Licaon · Post by **Licaon** » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:18 pm

rpsgc wrote:Like I said in a previous post... http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id= ... uage=en-us

i can't get that page to work

i've tested some games myself and it works ok

what type of problems ?

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 12:21 am

Licaon wrote:i can't get that page to work

i've tested some games myself and it works ok

what type of problems ?

It's offline now for some reason...

A quite large list of games that require DS3D GX to be turned off to even run without errors and games which DS3D GX fails to function properly or fail to detect EAX.

Licaon · Post by **Licaon** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:00 am

rpsgc wrote:
Licaon wrote: A quite large list of games that require DS3D GX to be turned off to even run without errors and games which DS3D GX fails to function properly or fail to detect EAX.

which ones?

Kaleid · Post by **Kaleid** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:01 am

X-fi card if you game (excluding xtreme audio which is a software card)

I had a Xonar XD a while back but had to sell it because the game support was too bad, especially for legacy games. Game engines can crash if the drivers don't fully support the application. This has happens in:
Thief 1, Thief 2, System Shock 2, FEAR eax does not work, 3dMark 03 crashes, Mass Effect music doesn't work with hardware audio on...

I've also tried Terratec, M-audio plus at least two motherboard soundcards and they all have poor EAX and reverb quality.

Now I'm pleased with my xtreme gamer.

rpsgc · Post by **rpsgc** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 6:34 am

Licaon wrote:which ones?

I did provide a link didn't I?
If it doesn't work here's the cached version.

Kaleid wrote:I had a Xonar XD a while back but had to sell it because the game support was too bad, especially for legacy games. Game engines can crash if the drivers don't fully support the application.

And that's why I didn't buy one.

Licaon · Post by **Licaon** » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:08 am

rpsgc wrote:
Licaon wrote:which ones?
I did provide a link didn't I?

neither of the links work

Yet AnotherÂ® what soundcard to buy? thread

For great justice!

Yet AnotherÂ® what soundcard to buy? thread