HTPC : which one of these would you choose

[mertsag]

1) 690G + Athlon 64 X2 4450E

2) G33 + Celeron 440

3) something else (mb must have AV/S output)

[erikt]

Asus P5Q-EM + E7200

[thejamppa]

740G ( 690G remade ) with X2 e-series CPU
Albeit 780G with 45W CPU is not that much worse either and HD 3200 GPU is pretty powerful, enabling CPU be in lowest power consumption state more often than with 690G...

nForce 8200 chipset + X2 e-series CPU would be also good choice.

[jessekopelman]

I think the 780G actually has better video decode than the 690/740 so it is likely worth stepping up to that. The Nvidia 8200/8300 have better audio support than the AMD solutions, but it is moot if you don't have a high end receiver and a 7.1 speaker setup. G45 for Intel is promising, but it seems like motherboard BIOS issues still abound and there is less choice/price competitiveness with vendors. If I were buying today, I'd most likely go 780G + 4850E.

[AuraAllan]

I vote 780G + 4850e too.
Seems like a great combo to me.

[frank2003]

If you don't need hardware acceleration for h.265 and vc1. go with 690G and any cheap AM2 dual core processor and underclock/undervolt the hell out of it. You can get idle power under 30W for a system with 3.5" greenpower drive. The processor can be underclocked to 1.4ghz and still be able to handle 1080i MPEG2 HDTV videos with ease.

If you need hardware acceleration for h264 and vc1 then get the 780G.

[mertsag]

I selected 690g instead of 780g because there is currently no 780G mb with s-video out...

[erikt]

From what I've read, 780G doesn't support HD audio over HDMI (it's basically S/PDIF over HDMI), so if you want to play BR over HDMI, I'd avoid that chipset. Yes, I know that many people claim there's no audible difference between DD/DTS and DD+/TrueHD, but many BR disks don't make it easy or even possible to get at the legacy soundtracks, which means you're stuck with 2.1 audio (or down-mixing which has been buggy). Oh, and you apparently require a Phenom for 1080i de-interlacing.

Just something to be aware of.

ET

[jessekopelman]

From what I've read, 780G doesn't support HD audio over HDMI (it's basically S/PDIF over HDMI), so if you want to play BR over HDMI, I'd avoid that chipset. Yes, I know that many people claim there's no audible difference between DD/DTS and DD+/TrueHD, but many BR disks don't make it easy or even possible to get at the legacy soundtracks, which means you're stuck with 2.1 audio (or down-mixing which has been buggy). Oh, and you apparently require a Phenom for 1080i de-interlacing.

Just something to be aware of.

ET

Yes , this is true, but you also need a 7.1 receiver and speaker system to support these high end audio codecs. This why I say the 780G is the thing to buy today -- by the time most people need the features it lacks, it will make sense to replace the MB or go with an add-in card, anyway. The cost of upgrading your surround sound setup, for those serious enough to care about multichannel lossless audio, dwarfs PC components . . .

[erikt]

From what I've read, 780G doesn't support HD audio over HDMI (it's basically S/PDIF over HDMI), so if you want to play BR over HDMI, I'd avoid that chipset. Yes, I know that many people claim there's no audible difference between DD/DTS and DD+/TrueHD, but many BR disks don't make it easy or even possible to get at the legacy soundtracks, which means you're stuck with 2.1 audio (or down-mixing which has been buggy). Oh, and you apparently require a Phenom for 1080i de-interlacing.

Just something to be aware of.

ET

Yes , this is true, but you also need a 7.1 receiver and speaker system to support these high end audio codecs. This why I say the 780G is the thing to buy today -- by the time most people need the features it lacks, it will make sense to replace the MB or go with an add-in card, anyway. The cost of upgrading your surround sound setup, for those serious enough to care about multichannel lossless audio, dwarfs PC components . . .

I hear you, and I generally agree with not over-designing too much, but I would like to point out that you don't need a 7.1 system to enjoy HD audio. A 5.1 system with a receiver that has an HDMI input is all you need (which is what I have).

Anyway, it all depends on what your goals are. If you have no plans on incorporating an HDMI equipped receiver any time soon, or if BR playback doesn't interest you, then my points are moot. For me though, the kicker of dropping down to 2.1 sound was a show-stopper.

ET

[jessekopelman]

I hear you, and I generally agree with not over-designing too much, but I would like to point out that you don't need a 7.1 system to enjoy HD audio. A 5.1 system with a receiver that has an HDMI input is all you need (which is what I have).

Anyway, it all depends on what your goals are. If you have no plans on incorporating an HDMI equipped receiver any time soon, or if BR playback doesn't interest you, then my points are moot. For me though, the kicker of dropping down to 2.1 sound was a show-stopper.

ET

My understanding is that 5.1 DD and DTS works fine over S/PDIF output on the 780G boards, though. So the real issue is not no surround sound, just no surround sound over HDMI. Even there, I think 5.1 over HDMI may yet get fixed by a BIOS or driver update, as this feature is supposed to be supported by the chipset. The 780G is far from perfect, I just think it is the best thing for most situations available right this moment. I see that Nvidia 8200 stuff is becoming pretty widely available, so maybe the decision is not as clear cut as I originally thought. That's the thing with PC components: the window for one thing to be dominant is very small.

[Scoop]

I would love to go Intel but the limited A/V receiver support has me going the AMD route.

[erikt]

My understanding is that 5.1 DD and DTS works fine over S/PDIF output on the 780G boards, though. So the real issue is not no surround sound, just no surround sound over HDMI.

Not quite true. As I originally said, many BR discs only provide a TrueHD or DD+ soundtrack. The fall-back position is a 2.1 soundtrack. While they may have a DD or DTS track buried on the disk somewhere, the only way to get at it currently is to go through a complicated rip->demux->remux procedure. There is also the down-mixing option, where the software player takes the HD audio and re-mixes it to DD/DTS, but this is CPU intensive and buggy.
So, if you want hassle-free surround sound from all BR discs, LPCM over HDMI is the only way, something the 780G doesn't currently support.

ET

[erikt]

I would love to go Intel but the limited A/V receiver support has me going the AMD route.

Sorry? Are you referring to the repeater bug? That's been fixed. Also, it was never an issue for those using AnyDVD-HD.

ET

[jessekopelman]

My understanding is that 5.1 DD and DTS works fine over S/PDIF output on the 780G boards, though. So the real issue is not no surround sound, just no surround sound over HDMI.

Not quite true. As I originally said, many BR discs only provide a TrueHD or DD+ soundtrack. The fall-back position is a 2.1 soundtrack. While they may have a DD or DTS track buried on the disk somewhere, the only way to get at it currently is to go through a complicated rip->demux->remux procedure. There is also the down-mixing option, where the software player takes the HD audio and re-mixes it to DD/DTS, but this is CPU intensive and buggy.
So, if you want hassle-free surround sound from all BR discs, LPCM over HDMI is the only way, something the 780G doesn't currently support.

ET

Remixing to DD/DTS shouldn't be CPU intensive or buggy as it is a very simple operation, but I can believe it is so as the current software players seem to be very poor at the moment. I'm willing to concede the point that if your primary goal is to play Blu-Ray, 780G doesn't seem to be the right solution. From what I've heard, AMD does not plan to ever implement 8 channel LPCM. I guess they want you to buy a Radeon if you need this feature, as all the HD4000 series have it. I wonder if they will support DD+/TrueHD passthrough with future drivers, as many newer receivers can decode these formats. At this point I wonder if using a HTPC as your Blu-Ray player really makes sense, anyway? It seems like for all the money and effort you have to spend on hardware and software, all of it still buggy, you could just get a decent standalone player.

[jacky912]

Asus P5Q-EM + E7200

Dear Erikt,
Is your system hot? How about the power consumption, is it high?

[erikt]

Asus P5Q-EM + E7200

Dear Erikt,
Is your system hot? How about the power consumption, is it high?

I run no intake fans, and my only exhaust fan is the PSU fan. So far, I've encountered no instabilities. I haven't checked the temperatures since I first built this machine, but they were reasonable, at least according to Speedfan. I tried prime95 and ATITool runs and didn't get any errors.

I haven't measured the power consumption, but I'd guess it's probably around 150-200W during BR play-back.

ET

[jacky912]

Asus P5Q-EM + E7200

Dear Erikt,
Is your system hot? How about the power consumption, is it high?

I run no intake fans, and my only exhaust fan is the PSU fan. So far, I've encountered no instabilities. I haven't checked the temperatures since I first built this machine, but they were reasonable, at least according to Speedfan. I tried prime95 and ATITool runs and didn't get any errors.

I haven't measured the power consumption, but I'd guess it's probably around 150-200W during BR play-back.

ET

Thanks, pal.
Really hope someone did compare the power consumption between CPUs and chipsets...
Anyway, thanks again.

[Scoop]

I would love to go Intel but the limited A/V receiver support has me going the AMD route.

Sorry? Are you referring to the repeater bug? That's been fixed. Also, it was never an issue for those using AnyDVD-HD.

ET

I'm not planning on ripping BD movies on a 32GB SSD and the last I read on this Anandtech article released on 24th of September http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3417&p=6, there are still problems. Unless they've fixed it since then.

[erikt]

I would love to go Intel but the limited A/V receiver support has me going the AMD route.

Sorry? Are you referring to the repeater bug? That's been fixed. Also, it was never an issue for those using AnyDVD-HD.

ET

I'm not planning on ripping BD movies on a 32GB SSD and the last I read on this Anandtech article released on 24th of September http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3417&p=6, there are still problems. Unless they've fixed it since then.

Interesting, I hadn't seen reports of this not being fixed, but I would imagine it's only a matter of time. Regardless, it doesn't really matter IMO. If you're playing BR on a PC, you really should be running AnyDVD-HD. It fixes a lot of incompatibilities that the software players and standalone players have been slow to adjust to.
BTW, you don't have to rip the disc to gain the benefits of AnyDVD-HD.

ET

[ACook]

Dear Erikt,
Is your system hot? How about the power consumption, is it high?

I run no intake fans, and my only exhaust fan is the PSU fan. So far, I've encountered no instabilities. I haven't checked the temperatures since I first built this machine, but they were reasonable, at least according to Speedfan. I tried prime95 and ATITool runs and didn't get any errors.

I haven't measured the power consumption, but I'd guess it's probably around 150-200W during BR play-back.

ET

Thanks, pal.
Really hope someone did compare the power consumption between CPUs and chipsets...
Anyway, thanks again.

Comparing power consumption between the Asus P5Q-EM + E7200 combo and a 780G + 4850E combo is a bit off, given the huge purchase price difference.

Asus P5Q-EM + E7200 = ~200e (~100e for each)
780G board + 4850E = ~120e (50e for cpu, 55-70e for mb)

They'd have to differ by about 30W to recoup that in a year or 2.
(slightly educated guestimate, anyone has hard figures?)

I've just been looking into this after checking my monthly kWh on the meter, after running an old XP 1600+ for a full month, together with my main machine, my usage has been the highest ever. Going from an inefficient combo to an efficient is worth new system, if it saves over 50e/y when run continuously, but if you compare current low power combo's, it hardly seems worth the pricedifference.

Unless you're going the green route of course, then every W is worth it. I'm just looking for the most costeffective option, which should be green as well.

[croddie]

780G or G45 (see SPCR review of DG45FC). G45 is good BUT its DXHA implementation is non-standard and secret, so only works with a few commercial programs not including MPC-HC. (An appaling decision IMO which hopefully they will correct.)

Comparing power consumption between the Asus P5Q-EM + E7200 combo and a 780G + 4850E combo is a bit off, given the huge purchase price difference.

Asus P5Q-EM + E7200 = ~200e (~100e for each)
780G board + 4850E = ~120e (50e for cpu, 55-70e for mb)

They'd have to differ by about 30W to recoup that in a year or 2.
(slightly educated guestimate, anyone has hard figures?)

But more important advantages are: easier to silence, easier to run from power brick e.g. picopsu.

[Greg F.]

I selected 690g instead of 780g because there is currently no 780G mb with s-video out...

If that is the case you could buy this video card and mate it with the MB of your choice and get better HD performance than with any integrated MB. Just a thought. It has S video.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6814102799