Radeon HD 4670: A perfect balance?

They make noise, too.

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lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:30 pm

I add my 2 quiet cents.

If the card has a cooling system with the fan - it can't be silent. If someone can't hear
the fan, that only means he has more other ambient noise.

My question for users, that modded 4670 with passive HS is, if there are any other
areas on the card that need cooling (apart the chip)?

Has anybody tried HR-03 on the card?

I also have interest to see BIOS before I buy the card, to determine Powerplay setting.
Only with correct Powerplay setting and passive HS this can be a perfect card!
Please help the comunity and upload Bioses to:
http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/

brenta100
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Problem with dual-dvi on Powercolor 4670

Post by brenta100 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:35 pm

Sigh...

Hooked up my two monitors to the Powercolor 4670 via DVI over the weekend and unfortunately, the second (right side) monitor is exhibiting flickering whenever I do activity like moving or scrolling a window. I tried reseating the card. I also switched the monitors and cables but I always see the problem on the right side (extended desktop) monitor. Updated to the latest 8.1 driver but that didn't fix it.

Short video of the problem:
http://www.steampark.com/misc/6470stutter2.wmv

My specs:

Asus P5Q Pro | Intel E8400 | 4GB | Powercolor Radeon 4670 | 2 Dell 1905FP monitors 1280 x 1024 | Windows XP Pro SP3

I'm worried this might be a hardware or BIOS problem with this model and exchanging it at NewEgg for a new card of the same type will just leave me with the same problem.

In my old system, I was running an extended desktop to the same two monitors via DVI, but in that case, I had two different video cards, and it worked fine.

Any ideas on things left I could try?

Thanks!
Brent

Cistron
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Post by Cistron » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:05 am

Strange, I have similar symptoms on my Dell2408WFP at work. It's flickering horizontally though and it's connected to the IGP (Q35) by a DVI riser card. Maybe Dell monitors are prone for this kind of interference? I started to suspect my DVI cable, but then the flickering only happens with certain window and colour combinations.

jessekopelman
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Post by jessekopelman » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:11 am

lechuck wrote: If the card has a cooling system with the fan - it can't be silent. If someone can't hear
the fan, that only means he has more other ambient noise.
But that's the point for most people -- to have something they can't hear! The concept of producing a PC that is literally silent (ie produces no noise) may be appealing in an abstract fashion, but the vast majority here just want something they can't hear.

lester
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Re: Problem with dual-dvi on Powercolor 4670

Post by lester » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:13 am

brenta100 wrote:Sigh...

Hooked up my two monitors to the Powercolor 4670 via DVI over the weekend and unfortunately, the second (right side) monitor is exhibiting flickering whenever I do activity like moving or scrolling a window. I tried reseating the card. I also switched the monitors and cables but I always see the problem on the right side (extended desktop) monitor. Updated to the latest 8.1 driver but that didn't fix it.

Short video of the problem:


My specs:

Asus P5Q Pro | Intel E8400 | 4GB | Powercolor Radeon 4670 | 2 Dell 1905FP monitors 1280 x 1024 | Windows XP Pro SP3

I'm worried this might be a hardware or BIOS problem with this model and exchanging it at NewEgg for a new card of the same type will just leave me with the same problem.

In my old system, I was running an extended desktop to the same two monitors via DVI, but in that case, I had two different video cards, and it worked fine.

Any ideas on things left I could try?

Thanks!
Brent
hi

i have the same exact problem! :/
(I too have a powercolor card)
a solution would be really nice.


cheers

brenta100
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Post by brenta100 » Wed Nov 05, 2008 10:03 pm

More info...

The flickering problem appears even when I have one monitor hooked up via DVI and the other via VGA. Maybe I just got a bad card? I'll probably try to get a replacement from NewEgg and hope it was a hardware problem.

Does anyone else have their 4670 card hooked up to two monitors on XP. If so, have you noticed any flickeing problems with the right side (extended) monitor?

I've sent two messages to Powercolor tech support so far, but have heard absolutely nothing back. Doesn't bode well.

Cheers
Brent

Matija
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Post by Matija » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:36 am

I don't like the 48xx series' power draw and all the BIOS tweaks needed, so I'm just about decided on buying the 4670.

Here's the kicker: I want to cool it passively, with the HR-03 that I bought a long time ago for my X1950 (massive failure, if anyone remembers).

Will that work? I mean, TR says it's compatible, but I think I've read somewhere - maybe even in this thread? - that some people have had issues with passive cooling.

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Post by Vicotnik » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:34 am

brenta100 wrote:Does anyone else have their 4670 card hooked up to two monitors on XP. If so, have you noticed any flickeing problems with the right side (extended) monitor?
Sapphire 4670 here (which I don't recommend btw since RBE has problem with its bios, I would go for a HIS today). WinXP SP3, primary monitor is a Dell 2405FPW (1920x1200, DVI), secondary is a Sony KDL-40W2000 (1920x1080, DVI-HDMI). No problems like those you describe.
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lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Sun Nov 09, 2008 1:30 pm

[quote="Vicotnik"] Sapphire 4670 here (which I don't recommend btw since RBE has problem with its bios, I would go for a HIS today). [/quote]

Could you describe what problem are with RBE? Is PowerPlay enabled on Sapphire 4670?

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Post by Vicotnik » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:39 pm

lechuck wrote:Could you describe what problem are with RBE? Is PowerPlay enabled on Sapphire 4670?
PowerPlay is enabled but I would like to underclock and undervolt the card further.

With RBE (v1.17) I can open the bios but when I try to save it I get an error message. Doesn't matter if I make any changes or not. I have also tried the HIS bios that Kriz uploaded (see the previous page of this thread) and that one works fine.

If I get the chance I will sell my Sapphire card and get a HIS instead. That card also has better stock cooling (doesn't matter to me since I will use a S1 anyway) and has all solid caps unlike the Sapphire.
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lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:20 pm

@Vicotnik:
If PowerPlay is enabled, what is the 'Clock info 01' setting for your bios?
Maybe you post this on RBE forum and somebody can look at this issue?

I see Sapphire is really lousy with taking care for Bios releases. I bought passive
2600XT and with stock Bios there was no 2D mode - leading the card to overheat.
I had to manualy correct Bios in Hex editor... that was before RBE was avaialable.

I think we have to make more attention to Bios design when talking about silent cards,
as no cooler can help you if you have basic settings wrong.

I wonder now what Bios version SPCR used for the review to get idle consumption of 6W!!!

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Post by Vicotnik » Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:09 am

I've emailed a bit with BAGZZlash, the author of RBE so he's aware of the problem.

Here's the original Sapphire 4670 512MB bios (dated 08/21/08) if you want to take a look at it.
http://www.box.net/shared/592fmt5gpd

And here's the bios dated 09/12/08 that soon after release got pulled from Sapphires site.
http://rapidshare.com/files/160258124/473.zip.html

I've had pretty good experiences with Sapphire in the past but then I have never tweaked with a graphics card bios before, only done some hardware mods. I think I will avoid Sapphire in the future.
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brenta100
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Post by brenta100 » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:29 pm

Good news. Since I was unable to fix the flashing on the secondary monitor for the Powercolor Radeon 4670, I decided to order the HIS Radeon 4670 and give that a try.

Problem solved. There is no flashing on the secondary monitor with this card. The Powercolor card is being RMA'd. I'm out a few bucks shipping and restock fees, but am really happy to have that problem solved.

Cheers!
Brent

lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:30 pm

@Vicotnik: Thanks for providing Bioses.

I saw 3 diferent 4670 Bioses and here is how are they implemented:
- HIS: PowerPlay is ok, in idle 165/250 MHz @ 0,9V
- Gigabyte: PowerPlay is there, but not optimal - in idle 300/1000 MHz @ 1,1V
- Sapphire: PowerPlay is there, but is shitty- in idle 300/1000 MHz @ 1,25V
That means no voltage regulation for Sapphire - how typical! That also explains why diferent cards have diferent power
consumption. Maybe that will be someday regulated with drivers?

I opened Sapphire Bios in Hex editor and PowerPlay settings are from B260 to B300. I edited voltages and corrected checksum
for original Sapphire Bios. If you want I can send it to you to test it. I don't know if 4670 Bios have any new protections!
But you must be avare that this is on your risk, but if you did hardware mods then you know this already. :)

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Post by Vicotnik » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:16 am

Thanks lechuck, but I think I'll pass. In a month or two my Sapphire card will have a new owner and I will have a HIS card. I'm in a lucky situation where I and a couple of friends often help others to put together decent systems. It provides great opportunities for cheap upgrades. :)
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lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:45 am

No problem, it's up to you. Btw, I made the same changes RBE would do, only diference that I do this 'manual'.
If I open Bios in RBE I see the changes there and correct checksum.
Also RBE has small text - do this on your own bla, bla ...

But if you can buy a HIS card, this is a safe way - if you can wait 2 months. :)

lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:48 am

No problem, it's up to you. Btw, I made the same changes as RBE would do, only diference is, that I do this 'manual'.
If I open new Bios in RBE I see the changes and correct checksum there.
Also RBE has small text - do this on your own bla, bla ...

But if you can buy a HIS card, this is a safe way - if you can wait 2 months. :twisted:

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Post by Vicotnik » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:49 am

Ok, please upload it then. :P I'll test it.

Is there a guide for editing the bios manually btw? If I want to do additional changes myself, how do I know the location of the checksum?
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lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:30 am

There was much discussion about that at forums on:
http://www.mvktech.net/

Basicaly it's so: if you have voltage 1,25V, you must put that to decimal nummer 1250 - convert
to hex value 4E2 and now tricky part - change the order of hex value E2 04! Now if you search
Bios for this values you can quickly find PowerPlay table!

If you want to change value to 1,1V then you must calculate new hex (reversed) value: 4C 04 and edit
Bios. By doing that you change checksum, so you must add (or substract) some values to get
checksum like in original Bios. You do this in first or last line. RBE does this on first line, 8 column (if it needs to add).

To look for freq. is: 750MHz -> 75000 -> 124F8 -> F8 24 01

The edited orig Bios now looks like this:
http://shrani.si/f/3D/4Z/2STEZIxU/bios1.jpg
In RBE looks like this:
http://shrani.si/f/1U/MT/3wEmhqKF/bios2.jpg

With 2600 series this was all needed!

Before this is not tested with 4670 I would not upload Bios to public. I'll send you PM.

So if anybody will do this on his own, he must have another VGA card ready in case that he needs to flash
orig. Bios back. I mean to say, do it only, if you know what are you doing.
If you never flashed Bios before this is not for you. Or if you get scared by Hex picture. :)

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Post by Vicotnik » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:24 am

I flashed the card with the beta2 bios but afterwards the system froze while loading WinXP. It posted fine though, so it was no problem reflashing the old bios.
Seems like 0.9v is to low for my Sapphire card. :(

Looks like I have to wait for that HIS card after all. Thanks for your efforts though. :)
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redtyler1
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Post by redtyler1 » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:31 pm

Can anyone recommend an aftermarket single slot cooler that would fit the 4650/4670? The holes are 43mm and I can't find anything to fit.

Thanks!

Alex

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Post by maf718 » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:01 pm

I just installed the Palit version of the 4670 and so far all looks good. Here is the manufacturer's page: http://www.palit.biz/main/vgapro.php?id=986

I guess the USP of this card is the video output options; it has a double height backplate with native VGA, DVI, HDMI and DisplayPort. At the moment I will use it in my main PC, but in the future it will make a good htpc card. The heatsink is quite chunky, occupies 2 slots, and the fan is about 60mm diameter. The fan is only 2 wire so there is no rpm monitoring, but the manual fan control in Catalyst Control Center works with this card unlike the Asus and Gigabyte versions I was looking at. The standard fan speed is 27% and the lowest you can adjust it to in CCC is 20%. The Fan Settings section in Radeon Bios Editor is greyed out unfortunately.

I immediately used CCC to overclock the card, not especially impressively, to 790 core and 1040 memory. Leaving the fan on auto and 30 mins of Furmark gives a GPU temp of 74C, limiting the fan to 20% and it's 81C.

Unfortunately it's not totally quiet here today, but the card seems to be quiet; it's hard to tell the difference between 27% and 20% fan speed atm, and I think most people would be pleased with the sound of this card.
Edit: In a quiet room the sound of the card is noticeable within a metre of the case but not loud. I think the average computer user would not notice it but a SPCR reader would. Reducing the fan speed from 27% to 20% decreases the air-whoosh noise but unfortunately introduces a noticeable hum. Subjectively 23% seems to be the quietest fan setting, or at least the best sounding. I may experiment with disconnecting the fan and strapping a 120mm onto the heatsink instead.

The Powerplay settings on this card seem pretty good, power consumption of my PC at idle is 13 watts lower than with my previous 1950pro. Reading from RBE the clock 01 state is 165mhz 0.9V, clock 02 = 300mhz 1.15V, and clock 03 = 750mhz 1.25V. The memory clocks stay at 1000mhz regardless, would it make much difference to the power consumption if the memory frequency went lower at idle?

Hope this helps somebody, if you want to know anything in particular about the Palit 4670 please ask and I will try to answer.

DTF
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Post by DTF » Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:52 am

I'm country HIS model is not available so could anyone post 01 settings for powercolor model?

Ksanderash
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Post by Ksanderash » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:13 am

lechuck
That means no voltage regulation for Sapphire - how typical! That also explains why diferent cards have diferent power consumption. Maybe that will be someday regulated with drivers?
I'm not shure if there is a special hardware scheme in every 4670 card to provide ability of switching Vcore on-the-fly. My Force3D 4670 e.g. don't have that. Despite RBE settings it always runs on its default Vcore. This card even don't have elements (there are some areas for them to be soldered in) for the cooler speed change!
The best way to know what is happening there with Vcore is to measure it with a digital multimeter.

If anyone needs BIOS from this card (Samsung 1ns DRAM):
http://www.rapidshare.com/files/1606396 ... 30.7z.html
Picture of the Force3D 4670:
http://keep4u.ru/full/081118/341b5d862e200d0b13/jpg
Picture of modified cooling (just exchanged stock for 80mm fan):
http://keep4u.ru/full/081118/b7a72a14cfa66b6efe/jpg
Scanned picture of reference board (compare with yours, I found many elements missing around fan connector, so no wonder):
http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/rv730 ... -front.jpg

lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:07 am

@Ksanderash: Your Bios looks like the reference one - just like HIS one!

Did you set Power Management in Control Panel to Max Battery?
Only that enables PowerPlay modes.

Ksanderash
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Post by Ksanderash » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:05 pm

lechuck wrote: Did you set Power Management in Control Panel to Max Battery?
Only that enables PowerPlay modes.
Are you shure? Have got 165/250MHz in idle without checking that dialog.

fanerman91
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Post by fanerman91 » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:21 am

This looks like a great card.

I'm someone concerned about power consumption at idle, since I don't game that often. But it'd be nice to know I have the power to play HL2/TF2 at 1680x1050 if I need it. What other cards are out there that I should consider for low idle power consumption with decent gaming performance? I'm not really seeing anything much better than this.

Does anybody know how the power consumption of this card compares with an onboard GPU's?

The other thing I'm considering is getting an NVIDIA HybridPower motherboard, but then there seem to be a lot of compatibility limitations. I'd be limited to Vista (my sound card isn't supported in Vista) and limited to NVIDIA video cards, the cheapest compatible one being a 9800 GT. My power supply (Seasonic Super Silencer 460 watt) also isn't listed as HybridPower compatible, but people say my power supply should still work.

lechuck
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Post by lechuck » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:44 pm

@Ksanderash: Now I'm bit confused ... ???

@fanerman91: We can assume onboard GPU's consume few wats (2, 3 maybe 4?). So with 4670 you could come close
to that, at least below 10W, as SPCR test showed.

I don't have onboard GPU, but I did measure consumption with old Matrox PCI card. That card is so old, that does not
even have a HS on chip! My idle consumption was 54W, then added Radeon 2600XT and it jumped to almost 71W.
So I'm also looking for 4670 card, but it must be passive for me. Now I'm thinking of HIS 4670 + HR-03.

Did anybody tried to install HR-03 on this card (or on 36x0 series)?

Matija
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Post by Matija » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:05 pm

lechuck wrote:Did anybody tried to install HR-03 on this card (or on 36x0 series)?
I asked the same thing earlier, but nobody probably did it ;)

I'd try, but I can't find a 4670 cheaply in my proximity.

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Post by Ksanderash » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:16 am

fanerman91 wrote:This looks like a great card.

I'm someone concerned about power consumption at idle, since I don't game that often.
Check my topic G31+E5200 (there is also 4670 consuming test): viewtopic.php?t=51054
But it'd be nice to know I have the power to play HL2/TF2 at 1680x1050 if I need it. What other cards are out there that I should consider for low idle power consumption with decent gaming performance? I'm not really seeing anything much better than this.
Neither do I ;) 9600GT has more 3D power, but much warmer in idle.
Does anybody know how the power consumption of this card compares with an onboard GPU's?
And check also this: viewtopic.php?t=50886
The other thing I'm considering is getting an NVIDIA HybridPower motherboard
I wish it was real but the HybridPower technology is half-done yet.

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