Radeon HD 4670: A perfect balance?

lechuck · Post by **lechuck** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:45 pm

Ksanderash: Are you sure this is THE magic chip?

Looking at the pictures in SPCR review, I'd say that reviewed card was missing that chip also. At the side view the place is flat.

maf718 · Post by **maf718** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:42 pm

Ksanderash wrote:
maf718 wrote:I used the profiles method above to lower my memory clock from 1000 to 500 at idle. Power consumption drops by 2 watts at the wall (with an 80+ power supply).
Why don't you just flash a modified firmware? I have 165/250, but even with this reduction I feel that the RAM is heating up a little. The card is under +5V 80mm cooling, inaudible absolutely, like there isn't fan, but not so performing -- about 38C in idle and 75C load.

I'll probably flash it eventually, I'm experimenting first to get settings that work - I don't want to brick the card. Is there actually any advantage to flashing v edited profile? At least with edited profile you (I) do not lose the warranty.

Currently on 165/500 , 300/1000 , 790/1040 , core/mem, the core speeds are default (apart from 790) and I see no need to change them. Will probably try 250 mem speed for idle and maybe 500 for the medium state.

The voltage is set for 0.9v/1.15v/1.25v but obviously doesn't change down to such levels.

Here's my current cooling on the card:

The 2000rpm Panaflo fan is stuck to the heatsink with double sided tape and hooked up to the 2-pin header on the card; I allow the card to auto control the fan speed. At auto the fan spins 27% idle and 56% max load, (approx 550 rpm and 1100 rpm ?) with temps 33c/75c. If I limit the fan speed manually to 23% the temps rise to 84 or 85c after a few hours of Furmark.

maf718 · Post by **maf718** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:38 pm

Matija wrote:
maf718 wrote:Matija, would your fan connector problem be any better if you removed the plastic shroud around the pins? That is reversible if warranty is ever needed.
Knowing my luck, I'd chip the PCB or something. But I still don't think it would fit - the pins are only a little bit below the top of the shroud, and I need more space.
.......
At the moment, I'm happy enough with this setup. When I feel like getting frustrated again and messing up my warranty, I'll take a soldering iron and get rid of the fan connector.

If it was my card I'd remove the shroud and then try bending the pins out of the way of the cooler. At least there would be some chance of getting them back to original state if you needed warranty vs soldering iron where there is none.

*Btw this is not a recommendation of what you should do, just an indication of what I would do in your situation*

However, it sounds like you have your card running quietly now so there is probably no need.

lechuck · Post by **lechuck** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:50 pm

maf718: You have perfect card for installing HR-03!

Only Palit and Gainward use this PCB layout.

Matija: I'd also do what maf718 suggested, by bending the pins instead of soldering.

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:48 am

lechuck wrote:Ksanderash: Are you sure this is THE magic chip?

Looking at the pictures in SPCR review, I'd say that reviewed card was missing that chip also. At the side view the place is flat.

Hey, you have opened my eyes!

I didn't even noticed that it is missing there too! It seems that X-bit lab is having more complete version of a board. But I can swear, that this chip is dealing with feedback loop PWM change, that is supplying the GPU. There is a track from the chip directly going to pin â„–13 of power PWM. If it is hitting the ground, we get Vcore raise, if it is pulling in, we are getting lower.

Oh, if anyone could reach the card SPCR were reviewed

I just want touch this card, to see where it takes low idle.

...

maf718 wrote:Is there actually any advantage to flashing v edited profile?

Nope, just for excluding additional software factor.

The 2000rpm Panaflo fan is stuck to the heatsink with double sided tape and hooked up to the 2-pin header on the card; I allow the card to auto control the fan speed.

Yeah, if there is such possibility, why not use it. Also your heatsink is realy big, and has ideal construction for 80mm cooling.

maf718 · Post by **maf718** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 7:58 am

lechuck wrote:maf718: You have perfect card for installing HR-03!
Only Palit and Gainward use this PCB layout.

Yes, I like Thermalright coolers, the quality (and the price) is always top notch. I think I will buy one eventually, especially as the only way to fit an Accelero S2 on the Palit card is to remove the VGA connector.

Ksanderash wrote:Nope, just for excluding additional software factor.

That's okay then, I already use CCC/Overdrive so it makes no difference.

lechuck · Post by **lechuck** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:44 am

maf718: One question for you. Did you mod your Bios with RBE, to lower mem. frekv in idle? Did your power consumption improve?
Also did your power consumption change, when you changed the fan?

I'm starting to think, that about 9W AC or 10-11W DC is the max any 4670 card can do. The SPCR review might be inacurate.
It is 4W + IGP. If its IGP consumption 7W, than it all makes sense.

The diferences from 11W to 14W, that were measured here, might come to diferent components used on
cards (solid caps, number of vid. outputs,...).

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:34 am

lechuck wrote:I'm starting to think, that about 9W AC or 10-11W DC is the max any 4670 card can do. The SPCR review might be inacurate.
It is 4W + IGP. If its IGP consumption 7W, than it all makes sense.

Must we ask SPCR staff to do a recheck? If they can, as a matter of course. They probably had sent back to ATI that card

maf718 · Post by **maf718** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:17 pm

Also in the SPCR review it's worth remembering that the difference in power consumption between the 4670 and the integrated graphics was actually 6W at system idle, the 4W figure was when CPUBurn was running. http://www.silentpcreview.com/article873-page4.html Compare the first line of the first two tables.

Lechuck, I am sorry I do not 100% understand what you mean by "mem. frekv", do you mean memory frequency or is it something to do with memory voltage? I lowered the RAM MHz from 1000 to 500 at idle and it saved 2watts, but I used an edited CCC profile rather than edited Bios. The Panaflo fan uses 0.82W at full speed, difference in consumption was too small to detect.

Different components such as caps etc will affect power consumption at idle but nowhere near as much as lowering the GPU voltage from 1.25V to 0.9V would. There must be some cards that can use 0.9V, even if only reference ones, else why bother including this setting in the Bios? I would be willing to bet my power consumption would decrease by 5 watts or more if I could lower voltage to 0.9V.

lechuck · Post by **lechuck** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:20 pm

Of course memory frequency, did you set your card in 2D mode to 165MHz/250 Mhz @0.9V?

I got reply from Gigabyte support. I was asking if the card can go to 0.9V in idle, they said:
'Thank you for supporting GIGABYTE products. As to the question you asked, yes, GV-R467D3-512I VGA card will automatically
decrease the voltage of chipset and memory in the low usage of environment to achieve power saving effect. '

maf718 · Post by **maf718** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 9:07 am

Card is set to 165/500 @ 0.9 V at idle. This is the same as default idle apart from memory (default = 1000). I have tried 250 mem speed via an edited profile but the card will not budge from 500, that seems to be its limit.

RedAE102 · Post by **RedAE102** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:01 pm

Just installed my HIS HD4670 IceQ Turbo (I would have gone for the normal one if NewEgg had it in stock yesterday), and I'm seeing 165/250MHz idle, but it still increased my idle wattage from 58W to 75W running the system shown in my signature. I'm happy to have a proper 3D card again, but this is a pretty big jump. I have yet to do much experimenting with the fan speed, but GPU-Z says it's running at 30% at idle, and has an annoying, easily noticeable buzz to it. I have an Accelero S2 sitting around here somewhere that may soon find a home on this card.

CallmeRoth · Post by **CallmeRoth** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:26 pm

Most stuff has been covered but heres my cents.

*Note I have not done and have no way to do power tests*

I bought the HIS version last week. The fan is fairly quiet some may complain but for a 72mm its great.

The temps are more than satisfactory. Stock i was getting 27-30 idle and 43-45 load.

After overclocking 50mhz all around I get 30-33 idle and 45-48 load.

As for overclocking I hit 865 core and got a hard lockup instantly. Anything before 860 is fine. As for memory I stopped at 1110. I ended up going back down to the CCC limit of 800core and 1050memory because it seems to be most stable under any condition. Its almost as if they planned it so any higher than CCC limit and your bound for problems even if a stress test shows stability.

Iam one the only ones here who didnt by the card for extreme low noise and extreme low power so I cant offer anything there.

I got it for no need of 6pin power and acceptable game performance at sub $150 CDN. Its for my mATX on the go gaming needs. =D

ex.treme · Post by **ex.treme** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:25 pm

Hallo !
I have problem with underclocking and management tool for this card.
I hate instant powerplay, she moves so oftenly frekvency core and mem.
I wanted some utilities with stable settings for core and memory.( Enough 200/500 for 2d) .
I tried newest Ati tray tools 1.6.9-1374, but this tool doesn't make changes with cpu or memory frekvency. He shows default core -878-4.50 ddr -wt....?

With rivatuner 2.20 i can change frekv. but for 2d is too much 375 core/500 mem.

Is available any tools?

yaler · Post by **yaler** » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:06 pm

Really enjoying my Sapphire 4670 with Accelero S1. 40C idle and 50C max playing games. Very happy

Haven't felt the need to tinker...

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 3:19 am

ex.treme wrote: I hate instant powerplay, she moves so oftenly frekvency core and mem.

So what? That's normal! And even wonderful

With rivatuner 2.20 i can change frekv. but for 2d is too much 375 core/500 mem.

Hey, Rivatuner isn't so bad app

Click in there the Power user tab, then Overclocking Global, then MaxClockLimit, right-click on it, Set value to 1, and from the right of it enter the desire offset instead of 1.

ex.treme · Post by **ex.treme** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:33 am

Ksanderash: Thanx, it's working. I'm running now at 100/400. Is more than enough for 2d.

Have low consumption at 2d load (Hd movie) about 3w. But higher consumption at idle.
I think, it's because powerplay undervolting works.

noreaga · Post by **noreaga** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:03 pm

I kept getting crashes also when oc-ing my gigabyte 4670, but disabling VPU Recover solved that. Zero crashes now when oc-ed.

spc · Post by **spc** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:22 pm

"HIS releases fan-less Radeon HD4670"

http://www.techspot.com/news/32928-his- ... aster.html

HIS's latest offering is based on the same iSilence 4 heatsink ... able to keep the card cool enough without underclocking ... You will have to pay a steeper price for the card ...

CallmeRoth · Post by **CallmeRoth** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:40 pm

yaler wrote:Really enjoying my Sapphire 4670 with Accelero S1. 40C idle and 50C max playing games. Very happy Haven't felt the need to tinker...

Iam running the stock HIS cooling and getting 28Â° under idle and 43Â° under load....

Iam not sure that accelero was worth it. And the 72mm fan is definatly not loud enough to justify.

friend · Post by **friend** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:58 am

I am really confused.

I want an quiet card for my pc.

I have read that Powercolor is Quieter than His.

But users opinion that tested the card is better.

Do you recommend the Powercolor or the His Iceq Turbo ??

Tobias · Post by **Tobias** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:32 am

This is interesting

Matija · Post by **Matija** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:42 am

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

I just bought the damn card! They can't go and make a new, better one!!!

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:41 am

There have been rumors about the RV740 for almost a year now, they always make a new, better one.

My guess is that it (the 5670?) shows up at CES in january, for sale in february or march if everything goes right.

lechuck · Post by **lechuck** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:16 pm

Now this one could be the next perfect balance.

friend: I guess none of them is quiet and it all comes to the point how silent your system is in the first place.

Matija: Don't worry, then you'll jump on 6679 train ... you know, the only thing that doesn't change are changes.

maf718 · Post by **maf718** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:01 pm

Indeed a new generation is always coming. It seems not till Q2 2009 though:

A product based on the RV740 can be expected only after Q1 2009.

friend · Post by **friend** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 8:04 pm

lechuck wrote:Now this one could be the next perfect balance.

friend: I guess none of them is quiet and it all comes to the point how silent your system is in the first place.

Matija: Don't worry, then you'll jump on 6679 train ... you know, the only thing that doesn't change are changes.

I accept that BUT which one should i choose the His or the Powercolor one ?

I see many members that have purchased them.

Any verdict ?

Chang · Post by **Chang** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:41 am

It depends on what you're hoping to get out of the card. My cheatsheet tells me that the PowerColor has fan speed adjustment, the HIS does not. The HIS has decent PowerPlay settings though. No mention of the PowerColor's PowerPlay settings or whether they're editable by RBE. Two members have reported problems with PowerColor cards.

If having a fixed fan speed bothers you, the HIS probably isn't your best choice. If you're more concerned about getting the lowest power draw or have bad luck when it comes to getting DOA computer parts, the HIS card is probably a better choice.

Personally, I'm willing to wait for prices to drop further and for passive cards to be released.

Mats · Post by **Mats** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:11 am

Can't you just connect the fan wires to the motherboared and control it with Speedfan?

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:46 am

Some additional info about RV740. Looks like it is much hungry for energy than 4670. I wonder how advanced will be PowerPlay technology on it.

RV740 is often misunderstood as the successor to RV730 which in fact is far from it. RV740 is expected to take the market by storm by Q2 next year as the best value/performance chip from AMD. It is AMD's first 40nm GPG chip with all IP being re-designed and characterized for 40nm. If you check out the chart above, RV740 is essentially a 40nm version of RV770LE core with 640 stream processors but has the goodness of the GDDR5 memories used currently by the HD 4870 card. Certainly, AMD reckons that 128-bit memory interface is sufficient for RV740 by using the GDDR5 memories. You will also be seeing RV740 cards with GDDR2, GDDR3 and even GDDR4 memories to give you more choices. Due to its 40nm process, power consumption clearly will be much lower than HD 4830 yet faster. Performance of RV740 is estimated to be between HD 4830 and HD 4850. You can expect RV740 cards to be priced lower than US$100. Update : A typo in the number of render backends of RV730. It should be 8 instead of 16 but RV740 remains at 16.