P45, is it worth getting[?]

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:07 am

Hey all,

I'm thinking of moving to a P45 based mobo, so i can have plenty of room to upgrade my processor. I've got some specifics in mind from an offer, but i'm just wondering if there's any issue with the P45 that i should worry about right now.

I intend to sell my P965 and Pentium D 940, either together, or separate, but i'll be putting my existing 6gb of RAM into the P45 board, as well as all my other parts.

P45 would give me PCI Express 2.0, which will benefit the 9600GT, Dual Channel RAM which helps out the 6gb i have, and one PATA slot, which allows me to still use my old DVD burner. 5 SATA will keep my two drives running, and i like the layout of the ATX power connector better with this board as well, so the MOFSETs will have better cooling. I intend to keep using my ninja, and FSP 300W to power it. ad naturally, it'll go into my Cooler Master Elite 330.

is there anything i'm overlooking?

thanks,
-bonestonne

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:44 pm

I canâ€™t see what youâ€™ll gain unless your current board doesnâ€™t support the CPU that you wish to upgrade to!

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:39 pm

well, I'm aiming to get support for 1333 bus.

the best CPU i can get with this board is the E6700. Prices are out of control for that, and i had a great offer for an E6750, which i intend to take up once i order a P45 motherboard.

I'm just wondering if P45 has any problems i should keep in mind. I'm going to be using Windows XP x64, and hopefully Ubuntu 9.04 x64 when it comes out in about 3 weeks or so.

I'll move to a full 8gb of RAM eventually to run at 800mhz, but right now i'll be running my RAM at 667mhz because that's the best i can do.

I need slightly better graphics for audio apps, as i still have stuttering in graphics in alternate waveform views. 800mhz bus speed is killing me with render times finally.

$63 sounds like a great price right?

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:15 pm

bonestonne wrote:well, I'm aiming to get support for 1333 bus. the best CPU i can get with this board is the E6700. Prices are out of control for that, and i had a great offer for an E6750, which i intend to take up once i order a P45 motherboard.

Even though the P965 chipset doesnâ€™t officially support higher than 1066 FSB there are P965 boards out there that still support the newer 1333 FSB chips including 45nm and Quads; Gigabyte are one example. Or you can run an E7xxx series 1066 FSB 45nm C2D if your BIOS supports it; have you checked? What board do you have?

bonestonne wrote:I'll move to a full 8gb of RAM eventually to run at 800mhz, but right now i'll be running my RAM at 667mhz because that's the best i can do.

Doesnâ€™t this chipset support 800MHz natively and 8GB also!

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:44 pm

I have the MSI P965 Neo-F v1.1

yes it has support for 800mhz RAM, but i'm only upgrading to 800 as i have the money for that. I'm still running mixed 667 and 800mhz, bringing it all down to 667.

The CPU support list has no mention of any faster processors than the E6700, beyond 1066mhz bus, no processors are listed.

There is a second revision of the motherboard, v2.0 i think it is, which supports 1333mhz FSB. 65nm is the best CPU listed on the v1.1 webpage.

I'm also looking to move up to 8gb, and more if i need it past that (i work with audio, sometimes in a live environment, sometimes studio sessions).

The P45 board appeals to me having 3 PCI slots, which will go well with running sync'ed soundcards for more inputs, and if i need it, support for 16gb of RAM, but i'm not anticipating that much for a long time (but the support is welcome).

Future proofing me well through college.

FuturePastNow · Post by **FuturePastNow** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:56 pm

If you plan on replacing the board before the processor, check the board's CPU support list. Depending on the VRMs it may not support the voltages used by old Netburst processors. Some new Intel mobos don't.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:35 pm

yeah, i'm going to be replacing both within a couple weeks of each other, i'm ordering the motherboard tomorrow, the CPU may have to wait a couple days.

from what i've taken a look at, the board will support it (i'm pretty sure i've got a prescott core), but it's supported by the P45 according to the newegg spec list, it supports pentium, but i'll probably play it safe and wait for the E6750 before i try anything, i'll have 30 days to make sure the board works, which is plenty for me.

Riffer · Post by **Riffer** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:59 am

A lot of the Gigabyte P45 boards support older processors.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:08 pm

buy:

e8400
2x2ghz quality ddr2 1066mhz ram
buy any p45 board. they are less than 90 dollars.

the cpu is 150 dollars... ram.... 50 dollars at max.

'nuff said.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:28 pm

well, considering my budget, an e8400 would take up the whole thing.

I'm just going to keep what i have now, and slowly upgrade it all.

I just ordered an MSI Neo-F P45 open box, it was $62, i'm going to send money for the CPU in the next couple days, and hopefully have it by tuesday.

then i'll start to rebuild it all, and that'll also give me reason to reinstall windows and ubuntu (and do some long needed updates).

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:16 pm

how is wasting 70 dollars saving you money on a 150 dollar chip? that makes the e8400 220 dollars if you ever upgrade.

Monkeh16 · Post by **Monkeh16** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:49 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:how is wasting 70 dollars saving you money on a 150 dollar chip?

Perhaps he'd like to be able to afford food and a CPU upgrade?

croddie · Post by **croddie** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:33 am

bonestonne wrote:well, I'm aiming to get support for 1333 bus.

the best CPU i can get with this board is the E6700. Prices are out of control for that, and i had a great offer for an E6750, which i intend to take up once i order a P45 motherboard.

This is two generations old. Go for an E7200 which should be faster or comparable and run much cooler.

I'm just wondering if P45 has any problems i should keep in mind. I'm going to be using Windows XP x64, and hopefully Ubuntu 9.04 x64 when it comes out in about 3 weeks or so.

No, P45 is a good chipset. I don't advise using XP64 since not only is XP out of date but XP64 is a specialist OS that is not supported by a lot of hardware. Try Vista 64 or the Windows 7 beta if you don't mind the fact that you may have to reinstall when it goes into production.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:08 am

Monkeh16 wrote:
~El~Jefe~ wrote:how is wasting 70 dollars saving you money on a 150 dollar chip?
Perhaps he'd like to be able to afford food and a CPU upgrade?

he is buying a chip he plans on throwing out within a year.

he should just wait unless he plans on getting a high clocked quad core. Of course, I duno why anyone would do that as an i7 is a large leap in speed and can be purchased for 229 dollars at Microcenter

Monkeh16 · Post by **Monkeh16** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:37 am

~El~Jefe~ wrote:
Monkeh16 wrote:
~El~Jefe~ wrote:how is wasting 70 dollars saving you money on a 150 dollar chip?
Perhaps he'd like to be able to afford food and a CPU upgrade?
he is buying a chip he plans on throwing out within a year.

Because right now he can't afford the faster CPU?

he should just wait unless he plans on getting a high clocked quad core. Of course, I duno why anyone would do that as an i7 is a large leap in speed and can be purchased for 229 dollars at Microcenter

Perhaps he needs (or very much wants) the extra power now. As for the quad.. I'd still buy a Core 2 Quad over an i7: DDR3 is far too expensive, and very little can take advantage of the i7 yet (at least on Windows. And 99.9% of Linux users won't use it either).

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:24 pm

thats peculiar

every benchmark i have seen has i7 920 blow away faster clocked core 2 quads for any and every windows application and game.

and ddr3, yes this is the problem right now. Only good thing is that the speed of the ddr3 has little bearing on the speed of an i7 system. just get the barest bones 6 gig package. you could even get the bare bones 3 gig package which is rather cheap. xp only uses 3-3.25 gigs and im doubting a guy like that is going to be buying vista for this new machine?

point is, his pentium d isnt too slow to justify buying a bottom end chip of the newer generation, when in fact, it is now not even the newer generation.

Look up all the 2.0ghz 939 threads about buying a starter chip, then upgrading when the 2.4-2.6 dual core would get cheaper.... the 2.6 dual core is more expensive than an i7 currently...........

old chips cost more than the faster current chips.

What he could do if he had no emotional ties to Intel (and buying a D chip means he might).

he should buy a cheap am2+ board and base dual core chip. much faster than his pentium D, MUCH Cheaper than intel setup.

then when he has cash, amd 720 black edition. its actually cheap but this method of starting is the cheapest with ending in the highest performance. He can also use ddr2 memory. like 1066 at max one needs. Overclocks into 3.5 range without much heat difference.

eh?

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:27 pm

to sum things up and answer things one at a time in no particular order:

1) i run XP x64 now, all the hardware i use is supported with no problems, with just the motherboard changing, and drivers available for the new one, i don't think i'm about to have a problem.

2) I don't intend on getting the E6750 to scrap it within a year, i intend to keep it for the rest of it's lifetime, it'll sure kick the pants off a Pentium D 940.

3) my budget is ~$150 for the entire upgrade to my computer, that's CPU and motherboard. If i had an unlimited budget, i would have gone quad already. the P45 motherboard i bought was open box because i don't expect any problems with it. the P965 board i'm using now was open box, and it's given me no problems for the time been using it (1.5 years). the secondhand E6750 is because it's a great deal for me right now, and i can see it lasting me for college. I would have hoped the D940 would have lasted, but processors have changed too much, a 1333mhz FSB and 2.66ghz is enough for me, no overclocking, but lots of cooling.

i7 is completely out of the question, DDR3 is out of the question. i'm looking for a leap in speed compared to what i have. if it can further cut render times for audio, i'll be happy as a clam. i don't do major upgrades like this normally, so while it's birthday time and i have the budget, i want to make it happen.

I'm a senior in high school, and currently "unemployed." jobs start to hit me towards april, and after may, towards the middle/end of june, it'll be a standard job, not odd jobs.

i don't want to come off as snappy, but i'm squeezing everything i can out of that $140 budget as i can for what's available to me right now.

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:49 pm

Monkeh16 wrote:Perhaps he needs (or very much wants) the extra power now. As for the quad.. I'd still buy a Core 2 Quad over an i7: DDR3 is far too expensive, and very little can take advantage of the i7 yet (at least on Windows. And 99.9% of Linux users won't use it either).

DDR3 is now surprisingly affordable, itâ€™s the motherboard cost that is hurting i7 as much as the CPU price.

Monkeh16 · Post by **Monkeh16** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:04 pm

smilingcrow wrote:
Monkeh16 wrote:Perhaps he needs (or very much wants) the extra power now. As for the quad.. I'd still buy a Core 2 Quad over an i7: DDR3 is far too expensive, and very little can take advantage of the i7 yet (at least on Windows. And 99.9% of Linux users won't use it either).
DDR3 is now surprisingly affordable, itâ€™s the motherboard cost that is hurting i7 as much as the CPU price.

50% more than DDR2 for basic RAM? I don't call that affordable for the performance increase.

~El~Jefe~ wrote:every benchmark i have seen has i7 920 blow away faster clocked core 2 quads for any and every windows application and game.

i7 is about 20% faster clock for clock than a Core 2 Quad. For the money, it is not a significant increase. Almost nothing uses eight threads currently (certainly nothing I use), and as such, it's far inferior value right now.

~El~Jefe~ · Post by **~El~Jefe~** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:12 pm

Monkeh16 wrote: (certainly nothing I use)

well, you dont use multithreaded applications then. theres no reason for a quad ever then if that's the case.

if you do want the quad, then a regular quad core2 is a waste of money if building from ground up. as.... you must have multithreaded apps to want it....

It should also be noted that computer parts are much cheaper and more varied in choice in the USA. the differences are quite small in long run.

Also should be noted that overall maybe 20%, however for multicore enabled programs, video editing, compression crap, all that, i7 is a beast and not a bump.

Monkeh16 · Post by **Monkeh16** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:46 pm

~El~Jefe~ wrote:
Monkeh16 wrote: (certainly nothing I use)
well, you dont use multithreaded applications then. theres no reason for a quad ever then if that's the case.

if you do want the quad, then a regular quad core2 is a waste of money if building from ground up. as.... you must have multithreaded apps to want it....

I use lots of multithreaded programs, even on Windows. None of them actually scale to eight threads on Windows.

smilingcrow · Post by **smilingcrow** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:21 am

Monkeh16 wrote:
smilingcrow wrote:
Monkeh16 wrote:DDR3 is far too expensiveâ€¦
DDR3 is now surprisingly affordable, itâ€™s the motherboard cost that is hurting i7 as much as the CPU price.
50% more than DDR2 for basic RAM? I don't call that affordable for the performance increase.

Affordability and value are different things and the current pricing difference between DDR3 and DDR2 in the UK for 6GB RAM is less than Â£10.

The relevant performance increase is for the platform and not the RAM alone and the value also has to be looked at in that context of the overall platform cost and performance. See Techreport for a look at platform value and the graph below which is for overall system performance per dollar shows i7 920 doing well:

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:02 am

my question was whether or not there's anything about P45 i need to worry about. not what the best of the best is.

the upgrade simply has to work better than this, i'm not interested in sitting on the bleeding edge of performance, my budget cannot handle that.

considering the best processor my motherboard can handle is an E6700, it's time for an upgrade, and this is the best way for me to do it.

but for the sake of being frivolous, why shouldn't i try to get my hands on a bunch of itaniums next? i'm sure that would slaughter an i7.

Monkeh16 · Post by **Monkeh16** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:30 am

/me already has some Itaniums

So, back on topic: There are no issues I'm aware of with the P45, excepting a minor issue with the ICH10 (all port multiplier support has been removed, however, as the ICH9 didn't support FIS-based pmps anyway, it's not a great loss).