Radeon HD 4670: A perfect balance?

Klusu · Post by **Klusu** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:40 am

Yes, 0.9V. I have not measured the watts yet. (I certainly do not expect 3W).
DDR2 or DDR3?
It's a pity Speedfan does not read the GPU temperature, would be the best for my card.

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Fri May 08, 2009 7:50 am

Klusu wrote:Yes, 0.9V. I have not measured the watts yet. (I certainly do not expect 3W).
DDR2 or DDR3?
It's a pity Speedfan does not read the GPU temperature, would be the best for my card.

Hey, that's interesting

Can you take some photos of your card? Hi-res of the face and the back, near the Vcore supplying module.

Why not use Rivatuner for temp reading?

DDR3, of course. Tnx for correction.

Klusu · Post by **Klusu** » Sat May 09, 2009 11:32 am

Pictures of Gigabyte card.
GPU voltage chip uP6209AQ:
http://www.bildites.lv/images/c14mzd3mtaiuo4z45kky.jpg
Front:
http://www.bildites.lv/images/v6q514pjr4z5ebegbcg.jpg
Here the arrows show missing transistors (4-pin fan speed control??)
http://www.bildites.lv/images/i1hsisrq0zsjq7nre3.jpg
Rivatuner does not control the fan. Speedfan can adjust a fan, connected to the MB. And I use Speedfan anyway, for CPU fan.

Ksanderash wrote: But I can swear, that this chip is dealing with feedback loop PWM change, that is supplying the GPU. There is a track from the chip directly going to pin â„–13 of power PWM...

Seems to me, the trace from the magic chip ends here:
http://www.bildites.lv/images/bu8k6bzlcawr05aidr9.jpg
Just a circle without a hole. Test point?

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Sun May 10, 2009 2:24 pm

Klusu
Thanx for taking photos!

Your card has both similarities and differences from mine (e.g. Vcore by uP6201BQ). There is a lot of research work if somebody would want to modify the card. I'm personally loosing enthusiasm for the idea, seeing numerous missing scheme components on different layout pcbs.

Can you make, pls, the firmware dump of your Gigabyte? (GPU-Z)
I'll flash it, and see what happens

Klusu · Post by **Klusu** » Sun May 10, 2009 10:23 pm

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/vga/ ... uctID=2907
Version F21 is exactly what I have

My computer with this card at 165/250 0.9V draws from the wall 7.5W more than without it (just the integrated gf6100). Much better than 17W I measured earlier with "standard" Sapphire 4670.

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Tue May 12, 2009 3:44 am

Klusu wrote:http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Support/vga/ ... uctID=2907
Version F21 is exactly what I have

As expected, Gigabyte' firmware is incompatible with my card.

My computer with this card at 165/250 0.9V draws from the wall 7.5W more than without it (just the integrated gf6100). Much better than 17W I measured earlier with "standard" Sapphire 4770.

7,5W -- the most impressive wattage in this thread. I have ~12-14W (due to 1,25V in idle). Is it a common card? Everyone can buy it at a local shop/store?

Klusu · Post by **Klusu** » Tue May 12, 2009 5:58 am

Assuming 70% efficiency of the PSU, about 5.25W DC. The fan (not needed at this low power) takes 1.1W from that... Great. The card itself perhaps 4W. Yes, the brand seems quite common.
I soldered some transistors, but did not make the fan control work. 165/250 0.9V and 300/500 1.1V draw almost the same power.

Ksanderash wrote:Vicotnik
How do you measure AC wattage?

I wonder how you measure DC wattage...

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Mon May 18, 2009 11:42 am

Klusu wrote:I wonder how you measure DC wattage...

Sorry for the late answer, I haven't notice your message up to now. You can read more particularly here.

Klusu · Post by **Klusu** » Mon May 18, 2009 5:46 pm

Don't be sorry. The last lines I added yesterday, I think.

SebRad · Post by **SebRad** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:23 am

I recently got a HD4670 to replace my X1950 that got damaged when the fan on it got jammed

I made a rather snap decision and bought the cheapest HD4670 from my favourite eTailor. I got Powercolor 1GB PCS version for Â£57, looked like good value, even now thatâ€™s a good price for any HD4670 let alone a 1GB model with up-rated cooler. In practice the 1GB of RAM, which is GDDR3 rather than DDR3 if it makes any difference, only runs 873MHz where the 512MB models are ~1000MHz and the card is usually memory bandwidth limited. In situations where more than 512MB RAM is needed the card is probably not powerful enough anyway, that the HD4770 was released about 10 days later...
This model card has several issues, for SPCR folks the cooler is fair at idle and good with the speed manually reduced further but as soon as any load was applied the fan spun up noisily. I've "fixed" this problem with the VF-900 from my X1950pro and this keeps card 65C or less at very low fan speeds.
Other main issue is that the card does not under-clock or under-volt at all. Once I modified the BIOS (or enabled ATI overdrive) this causes unbearable flickering on the second screen every time the clock speed changes, and it changes often, just scrolling or re-sizing a window would do it. The solution is to fix the speeds at full in the cards BIOS, ok but not good for efficiency. I think this the same issue mentioned on a PowerColor card earlier in this thread, the poster got the card replaced for a different brand.
My card has been treated to good set of RAM sinks and the VF-900 on core but overclocking is pretty modest. The RAM is up from 873 to 903MHz and the core up from 750 to 770MHz.
On the plus side it's lower energy, physically smaller and faster than the X1950pro it replaces. Faster by 25-60% in my tests and it can fold

I'll write up a thread directly about my card with pictures.
Regards, Seb

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Wed May 20, 2009 1:54 am

SebRad
I have some glitches too on the screen due to PowerPlay working. But they are very minor, and when the screen got refresh (F5 in Windows) they disappear. Completely not disturbing.

Scruffie · Post by **Scruffie** » Wed May 20, 2009 5:22 am

hi folks,
Are 4670 cards typically greater or less than 17cm in length? want to see if i would have enough room in a lian li pc-c36 case for one.
Thanks!

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Wed May 20, 2009 5:44 am

Scruffie wrote:hi folks,
Are 4670 cards typically greater or less than 17cm in length? want to see if i would have enough room in a lian li pc-c36 case for one.
Thanks!

But how much room exactly do you have there? Reference card has 190x100x15mm dimensions.

Scruffie · Post by **Scruffie** » Wed May 20, 2009 7:44 am

i'm not exactly sure yet. I'm only specing the build but i'm basing it on a review of the case which installed a card approx 170mm in length with 10mm clearence. The Bluray drive i was thinking of using is also an LG model (as used in review i cant post url to) so i'm hoping his was the same cause at 200mm its one of the longer drives i've seen so if its longer than the one he used there isnt a hope of it working. I cant find any smaller drives near that price and i've height limitations on the case i can use.

btw, i'm only on page 5 of this thread at the moment (damn work getting in the way) so has the fan speed issue been fixed by any recent catalyst drivers ?

fecking 3 posts url limit....

Ksanderash · Post by **Ksanderash** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:54 am

Scruffie
"fan speed issue" -- you mean automatic speed control based on the temperature? I'm affaid, it is a hardware related thing. You must choose the right card for that.

About the lenght. Mine Force3D branded has 174mm, that's pcb + external connectors (165mm only pcb). The reference card has about 190mm, as far as I know. So you should look for smth non-reference.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Tue May 26, 2009 3:00 pm

Couple notes:

Finally got my Kill-A-Watt in. Quick run through with the Biostar 4670 and the onboard 780G would seem to show it is NOT dropping voltages. It does reduce clocks, and the bios shows voltage settings and hwmonitor tells me it is changing voltage BUT....

XP x86, desktop idle according to KAW:

780G: 43W
4670: 56W

Ran a matching set of test with Furmark, AtiTool, Orthos, CpuBurn and COD2 to get an idea of the differences but that was the big one for me.

Will measure the card before I pop it back in as well.

psiu · Post by **psiu** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:27 pm

Length on my Biostar card was 167mm for the PCB (not including rear connectors).

quest_for_silence · Post by **quest_for_silence** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:43 pm

psiu wrote:XP x86, desktop idle according to KAW:

780G: 43W
4670: 56W

Well, those 3w at idle, recorded by Mike Chin and his fellows, seem to me more and more "suspect": I'm wondering if it's another "first Ninja"case.

Would any SPCR staff member give a second look to the 4670? Or it's too late?

Regards,
Luca

Ch0z3n · Post by **Ch0z3n** » Sun May 31, 2009 2:01 pm

Is there any consensus as per lowest idle power consumption and/or best out of the box 4670?

Do any manufacturers allow you to change the heat sink without voiding the warranty? I know EVGA does as long as you put the old HS back on before you ship it to them, but they only make nVidia cards.

thepwner · Post by **thepwner** » Sun May 31, 2009 3:10 pm

I bet most companies are like that, I mean how would they know that you took off your old heatsink and put a new one on? As long as you put your old one back on I think you'd be fine.

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Sun May 31, 2009 3:33 pm

I was all set to get one of these until I read this thread.

Once again it looks like the review samples have been hand picked. Flickering/corruption when PowerPlay kicks in is unacceptable, and in practice every card I have ever seen that does it tends to be unstable, especially playing back video.

I'd love to get a modern 3w passive video card but it looks like at best it's luck of the draw and at worst a con

Ch0z3n · Post by **Ch0z3n** » Sun May 31, 2009 5:50 pm

Ehh, I believe the reason the review sample idle was so low was because the firmware the review samples shipped with didn't have all of the shaders or something enabled. It also seems like most of the boards can't actually change the voltage even though the bios allows for it because they are missing the VRMs needed.

I have kind of given up on the 'perfect card'. Sadly, no one seems to be able to come close. The 4770 would be awesome if they did some more work on the idle power consumption and maybe take off the 6-pin connector since it only uses ~60w... oh, and being able to buy them anywhere would be awesome.

josephclemente · Post by **josephclemente** » Sun May 31, 2009 6:47 pm

Ch0z3n wrote:The 4770 would be awesome if they did some more work on the idle power consumption and maybe take off the 6-pin connector since it only uses ~60w...

Each of my 4770 cards use way more than 60W on load.

Ch0z3n · Post by **Ch0z3n** » Sun May 31, 2009 6:51 pm

how much more?

Vibrator · Post by **Vibrator** » Sun May 31, 2009 6:56 pm

Ch0z3n wrote:how much more?

The 4770 is rated for 80W IIRC

Ch0z3n · Post by **Ch0z3n** » Sun May 31, 2009 7:50 pm

Right, and the 4830 is rated at 110w. That's just TDP, not actual power usage.

josephclemente · Post by **josephclemente** » Sun May 31, 2009 8:02 pm

Ch0z3n wrote:how much more?

I'm seeing 99W (AC) on load on my 4770.

Ch0z3n · Post by **Ch0z3n** » Sun May 31, 2009 8:20 pm

How efficient is your PSU at that level?

josephclemente · Post by **josephclemente** » Sun May 31, 2009 9:36 pm

Ch0z3n wrote:How efficient is your PSU at that level?

I'm not sure... I'm running a Seasonic M12II 430W.

MoJo · Post by **MoJo** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:05 am

I'm starting to think that the only way review sites can be sure of not being cheated by manufacturers is to buy the cards retail themselves.

Actually, there is one other option. Post the BIOS file so it can be compared with retail ones. Any chance of that, Mike?