The economy sucks!

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:47 pm

Anyone else having trouble finding a job? I have worked for years in low pay, dead end positions hoping one day to advanced into a role where I can finally get my own place and start a real life for myself.

I finally realized that my tactic of working hard and hoping for the best was not working and decided my only way out was to go back to college. So now after 4 years I am 28 and finally have my Bachelor's in Management.

Now I am applying for any management position I can find with no luck. I have over 4 years experience as an assistant manager at a video store and an above ground pool instillation company, but still no luck.

Ironically when I did get an interview <after about 5 months and 50 applications> I was asked why I think I would be good for this position. I proceeded to explain that I had a Bachelor's in Management, was in the top 7% of graduating business majors in the country, and had won several awards; not to mention the several years of managerial experience I acquired while attending college full time. The interviewer <a woman missing several of her teeth, and dressed in a shirt that clearly hadn't been washed recently> proceeded to tell me that a Bachelor's degree is worthless and that she made it to management because she worked at KFC for several years where she was promoted to management and then later took a position within the company I was applying for. Infact she said, I dropped out of school in 10th grade.

The point of my story is this; how is it that a woman that dropped out of high school and then worked a few years cooking chicken is more qualified to be a manager of a business, while an honor student who score a 32 on the ACT and aced Calculus while in high school ect. ect. can only find work as a stock boy or other minimum wage position?

mathias · Post by **mathias** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:28 pm

Who says she's more qualified?

That's pretty backwards logic, she just seems to be trying to force you to go along with it by leveraging the position that she's in.

Yeah, of course you're better suited for the position, I mean, I don't know enough about whether you're actually more experienced, but you seem to have demonstrated better character pretty clearly.

I'm no expert on this, but it seems to me that getting by in life is all about interacting with other people and being able to figure out or luckily assume what's really going on with various aspects of it, not about slavish devotion to any sort of horseshit societal ideals.

I fucking hate my life too.

AZBrandon · Post by **AZBrandon** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:31 pm

GamingGod wrote:The point of my story is this; how is it that a woman that dropped out of high school and then worked a few years cooking chicken is more qualified to be a manager of a business, while an honor student who score a 32 on the ACT and aced Calculus while in high school ect. ect. can only find work as a stock boy or other minimum wage position?

To be a manager of people you need to know how to encourage others, build them up, and motivate them to succeed, among other things. You need to be a people person. Your job as a manager is to be the leader of a team not just an accountant or someone who looks at numbers and tells someone if they made their quota or not. She's probably very good at working with people and encouraging them to succeed at their jobs. I don't think you need a fancy college education to know how to deal with people and build them up to be successful at their job.

bonestonne · Post by **bonestonne** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:36 pm

it's things like this that remind me of my physics class. I'm a senior in High School, and I graduate on the 23rd of this month, and I'm scared to death of job hunting like you wouldn't imagine.

At my school I'm the Chief Engineer at the Radio Station, I'm the resident sound tech, and I rebuilt an On-Air broadcast studio in one night with two other students. I've done live sound reinforcement, show production, management, the absolute works. Aside from a couple personal issues, I'm considered a marketable person, but there's only 2 local radio stations I can apply for a job at. The first one is a very prestigious FM station in the area, the other is an AM station, which is located at the same building and managed by the same company, but it runs a much older type of music. That's something I'm interested in, but i don't know if i can work full time there, because I don't have my own car yet, and the hours are possibly hell for me (as i'd probably bike to and from the workplace).

meanwhile here at home, I had the glorious grasp of reality hit earlier this year, when my dads company announced it's closing as of January 1st 2010. Over the past 4 months, the company has laid off as well as let people leave their positions through various methods and payment offers. My dad has been working there as his sole job for 37 years, and has raised me and all 4 of my sisters through that job as well as stock trading money, as my mom has been stay and home since my first sister was born. she briefly had a job 5 years ago at a local store she actually shopped at a lot, but had quit after only a few months there for probably no reason in particular.

I know where you're coming from when it comes to the economy, it burns the most to the working class. not only that, but my girlfriend, who's a year younger than i am, had around $20,000 for college set aside in stocks, but when the market went in it's downward spiral in the porcelain bowl, she lost 75% of that money, so she sees things as well.

My school district had a Commendation ceremony on monday, where me and several other students had been recognized for all of our work, but I was the only student from the radio station, and only one of three who had been recognized for work that went above and beyond scholastic achievement, which really bit hard, because the paper looks really nice, but doesn't mean a thing at this point in time.

In my physics class i got into an argument with another student who was so proud to be an american, but when i heard that, i only thought of how this country is gone...the very fabrics that held us together simply don't exist anymore. companies are going bankrupt, millions of people are losing jobs, and what we all once thought the american dream was is simply going to return to just that, it's going to just be thoughts and dreams. By no means would i say immigrants have anything to do with it, but the government, on local and national levels are overlooking so many issues.

GamingGod, I'm 10 years younger than you, I have 4 years of college to get through, and I understand completely what you're going through...we may all have talents, we may be able to show outstanding characteristics, but even the expectations have changed too much for that.

GamingGod · Post by **GamingGod** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:24 pm

The really ironic part is that I went for a management degree because I thought it was a sure thing. Every business has managers, and my reasoning told me that if I wanted a solid career I should get a degree in something broad.

I should have just saved the $25,000 I spent on college and tried to get into one of my "dream" careers. I really wanted to be a fiction writer, video game designer, or even a script writer for sci-fi/horror movies. I knew that getting into one of these careers was almost impossible so I tried to get into something that sounded more realistic.

I have decided that I will not work for minimum wage at the age of 28. I would rather live with my mom and sell blood if I have to. I have been working since I was 16 and have nothing to show for it.

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:46 pm

Sorry to hear of your difficulties. It's a bit of a cliche, but "it's not what you know, it's who you know" is a huge part of the reality of finding a job. It's worked for me several times. The other thing is communication skills, seeing eye-to-eye with the employer. They want to know that you are on the same wavelength and can relate to each other. A bit of charm can go a long way. I have always treated job interviews as a two way thing - I'm interviewing them as much as they are interviewing me. If I don't like their style or personality then I'm not going to enjoy working with them. I've been presented with some good opportunities over the years but declined them on this basis, even though I needed to get a job at the time.

Although I'm probably not well qualified to give advice, I would recommend that you find an industry or company that you really want to work for, then just get any job with them and work your way up. Don't just rely on job ads, go out and find those companies you like and try to get a foot in the door. It's your interest, enthusiasm and commitment to the company (as well as your communication/team skills) that will get you the job.

judge56988 · Post by **judge56988** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:05 pm

alleycat wrote: I would recommend that you find an industry or company that you really want to work for, then just get any job with them and work your way up. Don't just rely on job ads, go out and find those companies you like and try to get a foot in the door. It's your interest, enthusiasm and commitment to the company (as well as your communication/team skills) that will get you the job.

I'd also recommend this approach - plus some luck helps, being in the right place at the right time.
With those "dream jobs" film/TV/theatre type stuff, even if you have relevant qualifications you invariably still have to start at the bottom as a runner/tea boy and work up. It's the only way to really learn how things work.
The companies I do freelance work for often have kids offering to work for nothing just so they can get a foot in the door and some experience.

Greg F. · Post by **Greg F.** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:38 pm

In the early nineties American business eliminated a whole layer of mid management jobs. They never missed those people. It was just, I guess, a whole cadre of paper shufflers. It made American corporations very competitive for awhile. Euro did it, I guess, about ten years later. It helped Euro corps to compete.
IMHO you should have spent the time acquiring a set of job skills such as refrigeration tech, nuclear grade welder, even cabinet maker. I am on the west coast of USA and even today people are needed in positions such as these and the jobs go begging. People want to be in management because they perceive it to be a nice clean job in an air conditioned or heated environment. The USA is having a crisis of not turning out people who can do the sort of jobs I mentioned above. Those jobs require people who have brains and take pride in their work. Sadly those qualities seem to be in short supply.
My two cents and free advice, take it for what it is worth.

rbrodka · Post by **rbrodka** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:16 pm

GamingGod wrote: I was asked why I think I would be good for this position. I proceeded to explain that I had a Bachelor's in Management, was in the top 7% of graduating business majors in the country, and had won several awards; not to mention the several years of managerial experience I acquired while attending college full time. The interviewer <a woman missing several of her teeth, and dressed in a shirt that clearly hadn't been washed recently> proceeded to tell me that a Bachelor's degree is worthless and that she made it to management because she worked at KFC for several years where she was promoted to management and then later took a position within the company I was applying for. Infact she said, I dropped out of school in 10th grade.

The point of my story is this; how is it that a woman that dropped out of high school and then worked a few years cooking chicken is more qualified to be a manager of a business, while an honor student who score a 32 on the ACT and aced Calculus while in high school ect. ect. can only find work as a stock boy or other minimum wage position?

She is more qualified because she is better at playing the game than you are. When interviewing, you have to consider who you are interviewing with, and tailor your presentation to that person. For example, if you are interviewing with an HR person, you could probably impress them with your degree, awards, top 7%, etc. But when interviewing with the hiring manager, especially one with missing teeth, soiled clothes, and a 10th grade drop-out, those credentials are threatening. She is obviously smart enough to not hire someone who might replace her.

Your best approach in this situation is to downplay your credentials, and emphasize your loyalty, dedication, and hard work. You need to convince her that your mission in life is to make her look good. You need to put yourself in her shoes. If you were her, would you hire someone like yourself?

Consider yourself lucky that you were not hired for this position. With a manager like you described, your work life would be miserable, and could be a waste of several years of your life.

All managers want to hire subordinates that will make them look good. However, you need to find a hiring manager that is smart and upwardly mobile, so when you make them look good and they get promoted, it opens a position for you to move into. The manager you described above is not likely to be promoted, and under her, you would not likely ever be promoted.

I know how frustrating it is to be looking for a job, I've been there many many times. Keep looking and don't get discouraged. It will happen, but remember, looking for a job is a full time endeavor, it is your "job" to do until you gain employment.

Good luck with the search.

colm · Post by **colm** » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:40 pm

it really is that bad.

If to think of reality instead of just stepping up to jobs that can have dropouts really earning specifics of a location,, you could really challenge yourself with a military tour as an officer...and then some undoubtable guarantees may happen after just 4-6 years. It is brutal out there, LIVE with it.

I do not want to give an example of "jackpot" in the military for personal integrity reasons, but it is an answer and challenge to ponder.

andyb · Post by **andyb** » Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:45 am

I am luckily very busy at work (computer engineer), and if anything have been busier since the so-called "recession" started. Likewise the Car mechanics and second-hand car dealers are doing very well simply because its cheaper for someone to get something that they "need" fixed than buy new.

I personally dont know anyone who is currently out of work, but several people are feeling their companies tighten their belts.

I would aggree with "rbrodka", you really need to tailor your CV to the job your applying for, many people/companies simply wont employ someone if they are deemed to be "over-qualified". You are best off dumbing down your CV and grades if you need to just to get a job rather than holding out for a job that you actually want. Then in a years time go after a job that you really want when things are picking up. You really dont want gaps in your CV, people see that you havent been employed for xxx amount of time and wonder why - then its even harder to get a job.

Andy

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:44 am

GamingGod wrote:Anyone else having trouble finding a job? I have worked for years in low pay, dead end positions hoping one day to advanced into a role where I can finally get my own place and start a real life for myself.

Yes, I'm in a similar position.

GamingGod wrote:I finally realized that my tactic of working hard and hoping for the best was not working and decided my only way out was to go back to college. So now after 4 years I am 28 and finally have my Bachelor's in Management.

I have also thought of returning to study, but I wonder whether it's worth my time or money.

Additional Note: Interestingly, I heard a BBC World Service documentary some time ago on the history of American business that is relevant to this current economic crisis. In the 18TH-19TH centuries, spurred on by the "Protestant work ethic" and the desire to create a "heaven on earth" in America, communities began small businesses as they continued to "build" America. Managers were humble working men--they came from the company they worked in and had toiled at the coal face themselves. As we moved in the 20TH Century, companies grew too large to be managed by local shop floor managers, so the idea of middle and high tier management came into being. No longer was it necessary to be from the company and have intimate knowledge of the industry: you just had to be a well presented but shrewd superb accountant who took care of things from the top. People got Degrees instead of Experience, and they were parachuted from Business School into the Company. And the rest is, as they say, history.

GamingGod wrote:The point of my story is this; how is it that a woman that dropped out of high school and then worked a few years cooking chicken is more qualified to be a manager of a business, while an honor student who score a 32 on the ACT and aced Calculus while in high school ect. ect. can only find work as a stock boy or other minimum wage position?

The problem is people are convinced into believing that an education is the path to all things great. And while it certainly helps, it is not the be all and end all. I have always been told "Education, education, education!" But I could never "fit in" to the education system. It makes things more difficult, but I just have to achieve things through another pathway.

I don't know the situation in the United States, but here in Australia, employers value on the job experience very highly. In a company I used to work for, many people were once "high school dropouts" as you call it; but many became store managers, area managers, buyers, recruiters, trainers and even CEOs who earned higher than average salaries. I don't think you should look down on people who didn't necessarily get a formal education: not all people who leave school or don't end up getting a degree are intellectually inept. Many of these people worked out they weren't going to cut it in a classroom and went out and got their hands dirty working 16+ hours a day instead. I know of a true story of a trolley boy who progressed through the company to become the CEO: from the very bottom to the very top.

People will get to their goals through different ways. You decided to go back and get a degree and that is commendable. There is an employer out there who will value that, as well as your hands on experience -- so don't give up.

The economy sucks -- truly it does, but it's only going to worsen before it gets better. You just have to do the best that you can. *Manage your expenditure, draw up a budget, get a dedicated savings account that puts aside some of your income -- all of this helps to weather the economic storm.

* I am not a financial expert. My advice may not be suitable to your particular needs or situation. Please read the PDS before... Wait, I do not have one

.

LodeHacker · Post by **LodeHacker** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:55 am

Shamgar, truer words have never been spoken before.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:44 pm

Shamgar wrote:I have also thought of returning to study, but I wonder whether it's worth my time or money.

I am about a year from finishing my degree and I'm middle aged. The school keeps telling me I'm in the right place at the right time, but they have never backed up their words with proof. I've asked for general stats from the career services department and they always give me the runaround. They know, and they don't want to say, probably so that they don't discourage you from giving them more money.

People got Degrees instead of Experience, and they were parachuted from Business School into the Company. And the rest is, as they say, history.

People equate degrees to being smart. You don't get smart earning a degree you were smart to being with or you're a dumb-ass both before and after the degree. There's a certain group of people with degrees who look down on people who work their way up the ranks. They aren't comfortable with the notion that a person with no degree can do the job as well, maybe better. Of course you also have the reverse discrimination of that as well, the lady with the missing teeth. Neither one is evaluating each of us as individuals. We're just pigeon-holed into whatever category is convenient.

I don't know the situation in the United States, but here in Australia, employers value on the job experience very highly.

If you're in the wrong field that very attitude works against you as well. I've handed off resumes with years of hard core experience and the reply is "Oh great, and you're expectations of salary are also higher." Now the ads say they don't want tons of experience, and what they are really saying is they don't want to pay for it. Oh by the way, this is the world of IT today, with colleges touting this is where you want to be. Where have I heard that before?

In my physics class i got into an argument with another student who was so proud to be an american

I enjoy pointing out that it's relative; you can be the best at something and still not be any good at it. You should always strive for better, not sit back and brag. That's when you get passed like you're standing still, because you are. And where was this person when America toxic mortgages caused global economic collapse?

The economy sucks -- truly it does, but it's only going to worsen before it gets better.

The job market will recover very slowly or not at all as more and more jobs get exported to places and people who will work for less than a 1/10th of what we make today. I'm suppose to compete on a global scale, but I pay local taxes, local costs to own and heat a home, local SS. In the other countries where we export jobs they have no taxes because they have no real armies, no massive collection of bombs or arms development. Hell, some places have no plumbing or basic hygiene. Not only can I not compete with that, I have no reason to want to compete with it, which is why I buy American products when they are good, available, and affordable.

I've taken the dubious economics 101 course. They think it will even out in the end, and they will buy our goods as well. I don't see poor countries buying our goods, what they get from us we often give to them, whether it be food or arms. Now the worker in Japan or Europe can at least afford to buy a Jeep, a Mustang, or a Harley. But the workers in some countries where they are paid a couple of bucks a day? They won't be adding to my local economy in my lifetime, if ever.

Yes, we sell Coke and Pepsi overseas. Score one for the corn syrup industry. Mission accomplished.

Not.

You would think that as I complete my degree my biggest concern will be getting a better job, which I define as having a little job security, as compared to zero where I am now. But that's not my biggest concern. Given my age, the pallets of money distributed to the Halliburtons of the world, and this sucky economy, no, my main concern is that this job will be my last real job and I'll end up like a lot of older people, worrying if I will be able to continue to makes end meet.

But other than that how's it going?

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:33 am

aristide1 wrote:
Shamgar wrote:I have also thought of returning to study, but I wonder whether it's worth my time or money.
I am about a year from finishing my degree and I'm middle aged. The school keeps telling me I'm in the right place at the right time, but they have never backed up their words with proof.

I would really need to be motivated and know I am there for the right reasons in order to return to study. At the moment, there isn't a real sense of urgency on my part to do so.

aristide1 wrote:If you're in the wrong field that very attitude works against you as well. I've handed off resumes with years of hard core experience and the reply is "Oh great, and you're expectations of salary are also higher."

Yes, that is also true. I was speaking more for the industry I worked in. But I can seen how an employer may be cautious of considering someone who may be "over-qualified". Generally, when you have degrees and an extensive C.V., you're not exactly looking for a bottom rung job. And with the economy as it is, companies don't want to hire more (expensive) managers or high income staff.

aristide1 wrote:
In my physics class i got into an argument with another student who was so proud to be an american
I enjoy pointing out that it's relative; you can be the best at something and still not be any good at it. You should always strive for better, not sit back and brag. That's when you get passed like you're standing still, because you are. And where was this person when America toxic mortgages caused global economic collapse?

Defining oneself purely by national identity is pure tribalism. It causes divisions, fear, hate and wars. When human beings realise they are but one tiny piece in a very large jigsaw puzzle, or one small, short part in a great long play, they will stop getting so puffed up about the colours on a flag and cease destroying everything else that doesn't agree with that notion. Sadly, the majority of people will never realise this.

You know, when an animal dies, what's left of its physical death is still very useful: for food, clothing, shelter, manufacturing goods. What about a human being? Nothing. A handful of chemical dust. And people boast and go on like they own the planet because they have some money to their name and a title or office to go with it.

If there's one good thing to come out of the economic downturn, it's to make people realise they're not as big as they think they are. You can lose it all in a blink of an eye.

aristide1 wrote:Yes, we sell Coke and Pepsi overseas. Score one for the corn syrup industry. Mission accomplished.

Not.

I always found it disturbing (and amusing) when I watch a documentary or news program where people living in atrocious and terribly under-developed conditions--who have little or no money for food, clothing, shelter, schooling for their children,--still manage to have cigarettes, tobacco, alcohol, drugs and Coke/Pepsi in their hands, smiling all the way.

aristide1 wrote:But other than that how's it going?

I'm in similar circumstances I found myself in 6-7 years ago: without a job, living at home, living off my savings, concerned about the future but not anxious about it. I am older of course, wiser, less naÃ¯ve, perhaps more cynical even, but still optimistic. There is a Kingdom beside this world, a Life beyond this life that I look forward to. I am sure of It; sure as the night turns into day. Others may differ. I have no problem with that. But It is what carries me on.

Career wise, I decided a while back that I no longer want to continue working in dead-end jobs wasting precious years of my life. I won't go into my life story... but from early on I knew what I wanted to do and what I was born to do. I write. I love writing. But I need to channel it in the right way. I have just never really got the sum of all the parts working together. I don't care all that much about money, but I realise I need an income to support myself and get by in this life. So I try my best to be financially astute. I guess that is the struggle: pursuing your life's passion but still making a living enough to pay for life's expenses.

I'm sorry to hear some of your situations. I hope we can all find work that is both fulfilling and sustaining.

Have any of you considered going abroad to find work, or is that not an option for you at all? Myself: I don't feel strongly to go abroad. But I would not rule it out altogether.

aristide1 · Post by **aristide1** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:58 am

Shamgar wrote:Defining oneself purely by national identity is pure tribalism. It causes divisions, fear, hate and wars. When human beings realise they are but one tiny piece in a very large jigsaw puzzle, or one small, short part in a great long play, they will stop getting so puffed up about the colours on a flag and cease destroying everything else that doesn't agree with that notion. Sadly, the majority of people will never realise this.

Wow, I'm blown away at what you said here. It identifies and puts the flag waivers in their proper place. Well for me, not for them. I suspect from their perspective you've said enough to be bombed.

Yes I consider working elsewhere and Australia and New Zealand are a consideration. I wouldn't expect to make much money in Greece, though I would prefer dry heat to high humidity. And not having 30% of my taxes go military funding suits me fine. But given how people behave in regards to territory, while I believe the meek will inherit the earth I wonder if it will be 1 vast wasteland by then.

I went back to school because (no particular order):

1. I wanted to prove to myself I could do it.
2. I have not gotten jobs because I have currently a 2 year degree.
3. The 2 year degree makes me inferior in the eyes of some HR people and managers, and that's a hurdle I don't need or want to deal with.
4. Middled aged employees seem to slow down and lack motivation for whatever reason. My new degree will prove otherwise. I think it's from doing the same thing for too long and the weight of all their responsibilites.
5. Yes I am tired of doing the same thing AND the lack of job security.

But if it doesn't work out new career wise I too, have found I like to write, and I did well in the English classes I was forced to take, which I found I enjoyed quite a bit.

I haven't ruled out substinance farming either.

Shamgar · Post by **Shamgar** » Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:22 pm

aristide1 wrote:
Shamgar wrote:Defining oneself purely by national identity is pure tribalism. It causes divisions, fear, hate and wars. When human beings realise they are but one tiny piece in a very large jigsaw puzzle, or one small, short part in a great long play, they will stop getting so puffed up about the colours on a flag and cease destroying everything else that doesn't agree with that notion. Sadly, the majority of people will never realise this.
Wow, I'm blown away at what you said here. It identifies and puts the flag waivers in their proper place. Well for me, not for them. I suspect from their perspective you've said enough to be bombed.

It's okay to be proud of where you come from. I am. If I really wanted to do a vain excercise, I could trace my genealogy back, say 4000 years. But what does that prove? That I'm a good researcher? That I had an ancestor who was a general, a king, a queen? I'm dust to begin with and to dust I shall return. But if I come from a Higher Source, then I'm going Somewhere Good.

aristide1 wrote:Yes I consider working elsewhere and Australia and New Zealand are a consideration. I wouldn't expect to make much money in Greece, though I would prefer dry heat to high humidity.

Australia is on the whole a dry and warm country. But, depending on whereabouts you live, the conditions change considerably. In the heart of summer, temperatures in this city average 30-35 C and there are always a few days which go over 40. I am acclimatised somewhat, so I consider 30-35 C warm, rather than hot. Once it gets over this threshold, it starts to get uncomfortable. I am sensitive to cold conditions, so I don't enjoy the winter especially nor do I want to live in a cold climate. At the moment, we are going through some quite heavy storms on this side of the country.

aristide1 wrote:I went back to school because (no particular order):

1. I wanted to prove to myself I could do it.
2. I have not gotten jobs because I have currently a 2 year degree.
3. The 2 year degree makes me inferior in the eyes of some HR people and managers, and that's a hurdle I don't need or want to deal with.
4. Middled aged employees seem to slow down and lack motivation for whatever reason. My new degree will prove otherwise. I think it's from doing the same thing for too long and the weight of all their responsibilites.
5. Yes I am tired of doing the same thing AND the lack of job security.

These are all the things that have weighed on my mind also. Since I never ended up getting a degree, I feel that there is some "unfinished business" in my academic life. I would need some time to consider my current situation, get some advice, and go from there. I think returning to study could be a good experience for me if I approach it the right way.

aristide1 wrote:But if it doesn't work out new career wise I too, have found I like to write, and I did well in the English classes I was forced to take, which I found I enjoyed quite a bit.

Writing is not a financially rewarding profession, unless you write for the masses and are commercially successful.

The economy sucks!

The economy sucks!

Re: The economy sucks!

Re: The economy sucks!

Re: The economy sucks!

Re: The economy sucks!