temps i7 920 with new cooler

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Goldy
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temps i7 920 with new cooler

Post by Goldy » Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:10 am

Hello,

Just got a new cooler installes on mij i7 920, it's a thermalright HR-01 Plus with a nexus real silent fan @700 rpm.
Room temperature is now 24 , and the idle temps of the proc. are around 44.
Just wanna check here , the temps are a little high i think ...
Have tested with prime95 and with 10 minutes the temps were going to 80 degrees and the pc rebooted ....
Other info, ik have an antec p182 with 3 casefans, also 2 nexus @700rpm and a noctua top fan @700rpm.
Are these normal temperatures with the fan @700rpm on a thermalright hr-01 plus ? Did i something wrong with the installation of the cooler or must i just install another fan....more rpm...maybe a pwm fan nexus or scythe.

lodestar
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Post by lodestar » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:39 am

Core i7s run hot. Given an ambient of 24C I think your idle temps look OK. You obviously have a problem controlling load temperatures. From what is being said on the web the 920s either blue-screen or reboot at around 90C.

To keep the existing cooler you could run the existing fan at full speed, and consider adding a second fan of the same spec in a push-pull combination. You could also look at case fan speeds - again full speed rather than 700 rpm.

Replacing the existing CPU fan with a PWM model could be worthwhile, the advantage being that it will be quiet at idle, but will ramp up beyond 1000rpm at load. If I was going to do that now I would consider first of all the Akasa AK-FN057 120mm Apache Super Silence. This seems to be of Scythe origin but it does have open corners and claims higher air flow at its full speed of 1300 rpm, see
http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductId=1036586

If you go the PWM CPU fan route you could use something like the Akasa PWM Splitter Smart Fan cable to run the CPU and up to 2 PWM case fans from the CPU PWM socket. This also powers all the fans from the PSU rather than the motherboard but preserves speed sensing.

Alternatively you could simply replace your existing cooler. According to reviews on the net the most efficient Core i7 cooler seems to be the Xigmatek Thor's Hammer. But it is expensive, and it does not come with a fan.

quest_for_silence
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Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:53 am

lodestar wrote:Core i7s run hot. Given an ambient of 24C I think your idle temps look OK. You obviously have a problem controlling load temperatures.
...snip...
Alternatively you could simply replace your existing cooler. According to reviews on the net the most efficient Core i7 cooler seems to be the Xigmatek Thor's Hammer. But it is expensive, and it does not come with a fan.
Anyway it seems so strange to me that the High Riser Plus cannot cool adequately the i7: it's something better than the TRUE RT (the "flagship" TR i7 cooler), expecially at lowest fan voltages, and the sort of Scythe FDB which sports the latter is roughly on par with the venerable Nexus fan.

Goldy: Do you also use the LGA 1366 Bolt thru kit, don't you?

Regards,
Luca

Goldy
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Post by Goldy » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:14 am

Thnx for het quick replys.
Yes i'm using a 1366 bolt thru kit with the cooler.
And ik specialy purchased this cooler according the good reviews i have read, also here at spcr.
Thought this cooler with the nexus @7volt was enough but at load this failed as you can read.
I have the cooler now installes vertical in the antec p182 case.
Maybe a horizontal installation of the cooler will do the trick, but i have a passive vga (sapphire 4670 ultimate), so i'm afraid that this will just give more heat .
I have a gigabyte Ud3R board and this board has SMART FAN and i can tune this with Easytune 6, so a pwm fan is not specially needed.
I also thought to purchase a noctua nf-p12 fan so i can tune this with easytune, this fan is going to 1300 rpm.
I will also take al look at the Akasa AK-FN057 120mm Apache Super Silence as Lodestar said.

lodestar
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Post by lodestar » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:12 pm

Goldy wrote:I also thought to purchase a noctua nf-p12 fan
Noctua have an i7 cooler - the NH-U12P SE1366 - which uses 2 NF-P12s in a push-pull combination each side of the heatsink. Reviews on the web say it is a very efficient combination, coping even with overclocked i7s. But it might still be worth trying just the one fan first.

quest_for_silence
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Post by quest_for_silence » Mon Jun 29, 2009 12:37 pm

Goldy wrote:Thought this cooler with the nexus @7volt was enough but at load this failed as you can read.
And what about at 12v?

Regards,
Luca

Goldy
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Post by Goldy » Mon Jun 29, 2009 2:07 pm

That's the first thing i will try indeed :)
The nexus should have a rpm about 1000 and maybe this is just enough but i'm afraid not.
The best situation is that the heat of the proc. does not come over 65/70 degrees full stressed with prime95, at least that's my opinion.

Goldy
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Post by Goldy » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:29 am

Ok , i changed the fan to 12 V and now the rpm is about 1100.
After 10 minutes prime95 the max. temp was 72 degrees, but however i got 2 warnings which said "Hardware Failure Detected"!
And after 10 minutes the pc rebooted and even that did not go and now the bios said " Bios recovered after overclocking / voltage adjustments"
Overclocking i have not done, but i have ocz platinum xtc 1600 mhz memory and i did set these memory in the bios.
The memory settings i did , timings 7-7-7-24 , multiplier 12 (1600) and d-ram voltage 1.64 V.
After the bios recoverd the memory settings are on automatic , timings 7-7-7-16 , multiplier (1066) and 1,5 V.
And now prime95 is running after 15 minutes without errors ( i didnt have more time ).
Anybody got a clue about the memory settings and the hardware failure.
And what do you think about the max temp of 72 degrees ?
Is this good enough or another fan install and try to reduce the max temps a little bit.

quest_for_silence
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Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:29 am

Goldy wrote:And what do you think about the max temp of 72 degrees ?

I mean it's a bit high to say satisfactory (as an example, something like 68°C is to me satisfactory).
Goldy wrote:or another fan install and try to reduce the max temps a little bit.

Give a chance to this:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article83 ... .html#SS-M

(here it costs 7-9 euros, so it definitely worth a try)

Regards,
Luca

lodestar
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Post by lodestar » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:44 am

I think 72C is too much for a stock 920; something in the 60s would be better. There is clearly nothing wrong as far as I can see with the CPU cooler, but it still seems to me that it is simply not getting enough airflow.

If you look at the Xigmatek coolers some of these use a PWM fan that idles at 1000 rpm, and runs up to 2200 rpm. And the Noctua 1366 cooler uses 2 1300rpm fans in a push-pull combination. Agreed this is in part to give headroom for overclocking, but is a pointer to the fact that Core i7s do need significant cooling.

So perhaps you need something between where you are now, and what Xigmatek and Noctua are doing. If you want to stick with fixed speed fans I think you would be better off with something like the Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12M 1600 rpm, and using the BIOS or software to reduce idle speed. This fan appears at the top of the page of the SPCR review referenced by quest_for_silence.

quest_for_silence
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Post by quest_for_silence » Tue Jun 30, 2009 11:52 am

lodestar wrote:Scythe Slip Stream SY1225SL12M 1600 rpm
The M is 1200rpm.

To get better temperature with a 1600rpm SS you have to accept a noise of about 24dB for a 33% more airflow.

Regards,
Luca

lodestar
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Post by lodestar » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:50 pm

Yes, the point being that if an 1100 rpm fan is not good enough, then going to 1200 rpm is probably too small an increase to make a difference. And while the increase in noise level with the 1600 is obvious so is the increased air flow. If the 1600 works in terms of air flow at least you have the option of undervolting it.

I do wonder though whether this particular heatsink might benefit more from the Noctua NF-P12, particularly since the Noctua 1366 cooler that uses 2 of these fans in pull-push mode seems to be a superb i7 cooler. This is due to the combination of two 1300 rpm fans, but Noctua supply 7v and 5v adapters so there is scope to drop the speed of the fans if the noise level is intolerable.

Goldy
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Post by Goldy » Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:29 pm

Yes .i'm about to order a new cooler fan and the best 2 bets i think are the s-flex 1600 rpm ( i also think the extra 100 rpm over the nexus will not bring that much with the 1200 rpm s-flex model ).
And the other one i before mentioned the noctua nh-p12 ( with 1300 rpm i think it's just enougt to make the temps a little less at full load.

K.Murx
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Post by K.Murx » Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:14 pm

You could try to measure the temperature of your heatsink under load.
There might be a contact problem/broken heatpipe/...

alleycat
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Post by alleycat » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:14 pm

I suggest you try this fan http://www.nexustek.nl/NXS-120mm-pwm-fa ... -quiet.htm

Also, do you have Turbo Boost enabled? I found it increased temperatures about 10C, but only gave a small increase in processor speed. Not worth it IMO.

quest_for_silence
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Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Jul 01, 2009 2:34 am

lodestar wrote:Yes, the point being that if an 1100 rpm fan is not good enough, then going to 1200 rpm is probably too small an increase to make a difference.

Under a noise of 20dB the 1200rpm SS-M will supply a +30% more airflow than the venerable Nexus SCF. The SS-H a +74% more airflow but for a +4dB noise increase (so not just a bit), and comparable results (with reference to M) for any lower noise level.

I mean that anything above a 24dB noise is just too loud to be defined quiet.

The Noctua S are clearly inferior to SS-M (and H): without any SPCR review of Noctua P, personally I won't bet on this latter, as it's rather expensive (here it costs three times the above mentioned Scythes).

Regards,
Luca

Goldy
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Post by Goldy » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:16 am

Ok ,i run prime95 again without any errors this time. I had to set my d-ram voltage to 1.66V to let the platinum xtc memory work.
And now the temps were raising till 76 degrees,this is way to hot in my eyes.
So a fan with a little headroom is a good thing is think.
What do you think about the nexus real silent pwm ( range from 500 till 2000 rpm ), it's not an expensive fan here (€6).
Another choise could be the scythe slipstream 1600rpm, i don't think that 1200rpm will be enough to cool this processor.
May purchase them both and test wich i like more.
Anybody who uses this fan or have used it, would like to hear a few opinions...

K.Murx
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Post by K.Murx » Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:21 pm

Let me repeat my question: Are you sure that your heatsink works correctly? Does the heatsink get really hot under load?

Another point: You did not mention case temperatures. Are those all ok? Only 700 RPM case fans seems a little bit on the low side...

quest_for_silence
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Post by quest_for_silence » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:33 pm

Goldy wrote:Anybody who uses this fan or have used it, would like to hear a few opinions...
I cannot speak for PWM fans.

I can speak only of the SS-M, I have three of it, I love them: with one I even replaced a SS-L without repentance/second thought, as the attended noise increase is really negligible in my case. Being the 1200rpm version I don't think this experience may be useful if not with this last respect: personally I would buy just the 1600rpm SS-H, as more airflow is always helpful, and try to undervolt it. So, if you can't undervolt it without run into troubles, stick with it; on the contrary, I would buy a second 1200rpm SS-M just in case you won't tolerate the fan noise when undervolted.

If with a 12V SS-H your temp doesn't go well below 70°C, your setup is seriously flawed.

Best regards,
Luca

P.S.: the HR01S is a really spectacular cooler: as said by K.Murx, I would re-install it with a great TIM, there may be some contact or heatsinks defects.

Goldy
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Post by Goldy » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:56 am

The cooler is just a few weeks old, in the beginning i installed it a second time because i thougt maybe i did someting wrong with the thermal compound. But i did not control the cooler itself of any flaws, i'll do that the first thing i order a few fans very soon. Then i get it off again and install it again for the third time :)
By the way the room temperature is here now 25 degrees wich is very hot, it's a hot summer here right now.
I think i will order the scythe slipstream 1200 and 1600 model which you guys mentioned before and as i said take of and control the cooler of flaws. That's the plan right now, tips are always welcome.

Edit: just saw this in the online shop : Scythe Kaze Maru 1200 rpm( a 140mm fan), looks good , less noise and more airflow...
And what do you think about the scythe s-flex series...

ATWindsor
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Post by ATWindsor » Fri Jul 03, 2009 2:05 am

Goldy wrote:Ok ,i run prime95 again without any errors this time. I had to set my d-ram voltage to 1.66V to let the platinum xtc memory work.
And now the temps were raising till 76 degrees,this is way to hot in my eyes.
So a fan with a little headroom is a good thing is think.
What do you think about the nexus real silent pwm ( range from 500 till 2000 rpm ), it's not an expensive fan here (€6).
Another choise could be the scythe slipstream 1600rpm, i don't think that 1200rpm will be enough to cool this processor.
May purchase them both and test wich i like more.
Anybody who uses this fan or have used it, would like to hear a few opinions...
Sorry if i am a bit confused, but what RPM are you getting 76 Degres at? It's a bit on the hot side, but shouldn't be critical i think, i would run for it if you get 76 degrees with prime in varm weather, it's basically as bad as its ever going to get.

AtW

lodestar
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Post by lodestar » Fri Jul 03, 2009 3:37 am

Part of the issue here is that with a very good CPU cooler, the Thermalright HR-01 Plus and with a 920 at stock clocks, even allowing for ambient temperatures, you should not be seeing anything like 76C.

I am aware that people who overclock Core i7s accept temperatures in the 75C-80C range as a matter of course, but they generally have systems with copious ventilation (and noise) in order to achieve this. A modestly cooled system running at 76C only needs a slighter hotter than average day, and you would be back to the thermal runaway described in the first post.

Now admittedly I prefer PWM fans for CPUs, but the Nexus Real Silent PWM (range from 500 till 2000 rpm ) for €6 looks to be the best option. If nothing else it will establish how fast a PWM is going to run in this system under load, at the current ambients, and what system/CPU temperatures are going to result.

That should provide a benchmark to work from, without buying more fixed speed fans which may or may not reduce temperatures to the preferred level.

ATWindsor
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Post by ATWindsor » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:29 am

Hmm, what do you mean by "you should not be seeing anything like 76"? Do you mean that the OPs cooling system is under-performing compared to what is expected?

AtW

lodestar
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Post by lodestar » Fri Jul 03, 2009 6:37 am

ATWindsor wrote:Do you mean that the OPs cooling system is under-performing compared to what is expected?
Well the OP did mention an ambient temperature of 24. It was not said what the ambient temperature was when 76C was recorded. If we assume that it was 26C, then 76C-26C=50C over ambient.

Look up the SPCR review for the Thermalright HR-01 Plus, particularly this page
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article842-page4.html
and the section headed 'Cooling Results'.

Now this was with a CPU which was somewhat less powerful than a 920, but the over ambient figures for the same fan as the OP has at 12V, 9V, 7V and 5V were 34C, 36C, 37C and 41C respectively.

Clearly 50C over ambient at 12V indicates that the cooler is not delivering the results it should be, with the existing fan. Since the cooler has the bolt-down fixing, and has been fitted and refitted, then it must be that a 1100 rpm fan is insufficient given the heat produced by a Core i7 CPU.

ATWindsor
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Post by ATWindsor » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:11 am

lodestar wrote:
ATWindsor wrote:Do you mean that the OPs cooling system is under-performing compared to what is expected?
Well the OP did mention an ambient temperature of 24. It was not said what the ambient temperature was when 76C was recorded. If we assume that it was 26C, then 76C-26C=50C over ambient.

Look up the SPCR review for the Thermalright HR-01 Plus, particularly this page
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article842-page4.html
and the section headed 'Cooling Results'.

Now this was with a CPU which was somewhat less powerful than a 920, but the over ambient figures for the same fan as the OP has at 12V, 9V, 7V and 5V were 34C, 36C, 37C and 41C respectively.

Clearly 50C over ambient at 12V indicates that the cooler is not delivering the results it should be, with the existing fan. Since the cooler has the bolt-down fixing, and has been fitted and refitted, then it must be that a 1100 rpm fan is insufficient given the heat produced by a Core i7 CPU.
Hmm, that is an interesting point, lets say the i7 is using 30 Watts more. If you go by the figures in the table it should ambount to about 6 degrees more on the CPU. (based on 0.2 C/W). In tother words in the 40-50 range of temps.

AtW

edan
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Post by edan » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:46 am

lodestar wrote: Look up the SPCR review for the Thermalright HR-01 Plus, particularly this page
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article842-page4.html
and the section headed 'Cooling Results'.

Now this was with a CPU which was somewhat less powerful than a 920, but the over ambient figures for the same fan as the OP has at 12V, 9V, 7V and 5V were 34C, 36C, 37C and 41C respectively.
I'm sorry, but I think you were looking at the raw temperature numbers, not the "over ambient." The temps were 13C, 15C, 16C and 20C over ambient.
lodestar wrote: Clearly 50C over ambient at 12V indicates that the cooler is not delivering the results it should be, with the existing fan. Since the cooler has the bolt-down fixing, and has been fitted and refitted, then it must be that a 1100 rpm fan is insufficient given the heat produced by a Core i7 CPU.
I would agree, 50C is a bit insane :) Curiously, this recent post has a Core i7 and HR-01. His temps under load were 45C over ambient... But he doesn't have a fan on the HR-01! And the system is stable.

The plot thickens! 8)

lodestar
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Post by lodestar » Fri Jul 03, 2009 8:56 am

ATWindsor wrote:In tother words in the 40-50 range of temps.
Yes, if your calculation is correct, then at 12V the same fan should be 40C over ambient, so 40C+26C=66C when it fact it is 76C. Now it was originally at 7V, and with 24C ambient it should have been 43C+24C=67C, but in fact it was 80C.

So 10C hotter than expected at 12V and 13C hotter than expected at 7v would seem to confirm that more airflow is needed. So a single fan at higher revs, or maybe two fans in push-pull hopefully at somewhat lower revs.

lodestar
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Post by lodestar » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:11 am

edan wrote:His temps under load were 45C over ambient... But he doesn't have a fan on the HR-01! And the system is stable.

The plot thickens! 8)
Unlike the OP in this thread, he has a top mounted PSU, which actually suits a hot Core i7 because it will speed up with temperature, and act (as was originally intended) as an additional exhaust fan. More so because he has ducted the HR-01 so that both the rear exhaust fan (at 1300 rpm at load) and the PSU are pulling air through. He mentions at one point that he thought the PSU was flat out; the fan in his PSU is a Yate Loon D12SM-12 which runs at 1600 rpm at full speed. And now it runs at... 1100/1200 rpm at load?

This seems to underline the HR-01 Plus's need for airflow to cool a Core i7. I still think it is significant that the Noctua 1366 cooler uses two 1300 rpm fans in a push-pull combination, and I suspect that something like this would be best for the HR-01.

If it was my system, and I have built a Core i7 system incidentally, I would dispense with the the case exhaust fan, and fit it and a companion to the HR-01 in push pull mode. I suspect it would be a bit cooler, and/or you could drop the revs down from current levels.

ATWindsor
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Post by ATWindsor » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:23 am

lodestar wrote:
ATWindsor wrote:In tother words in the 40-50 range of temps.
Yes, if your calculation is correct, then at 12V the same fan should be 40C over ambient, so 40C+26C=66C when it fact it is 76C. Now it was originally at 7V, and with 24C ambient it should have been 43C+24C=67C, but in fact it was 80C.

So 10C hotter than expected at 12V and 13C hotter than expected at 7v would seem to confirm that more airflow is needed. So a single fan at higher revs, or maybe two fans in push-pull hopefully at somewhat lower revs.
Well, i was actually thinking 40-50 in absolute temprature. I wonder if push pull has much effect on a cooler like this with low restriction, i would guess it wouldn't help all that much.

AtW

danimal
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Post by danimal » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:52 am

i have not seen the o.p. post the software he is using to determine what the cpu temps are(??) or did i miss it?

probably the best program for that is realtemp, with the sensors calibrated at idle, per the instructions.

if the cpu temps still show 80+ degrees after that, it's time to look at the way the tim was applied, whether the cooler needs to be lapped, etc... swapping tims with 80+ degree cpu temps won't help much.

similarly, fussing about fan choices with a seriously overheated cpu is like putting a tiny bandaid on an open running sore... it's just a mask for the real problem.

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