Build a quiet webserver (maybe a HTPC)

cazz · Post by **cazz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:36 am

Hi
This is my first post here but I have been here sometime and read the article and that.

Now I have a little problem.
I was thinking about create a webserver that is so silent as possible but even cheap as possible (I know they two never is easy to succeed)
Why I write HTPC on the subject is I maybe dont going to have the server so long and I was think maybe use it as a HTPC instead to a friend of my.

I was thinking about two component
To the Mini-ITX I was thinking about Intel D945GCLF2, It look good, and it is cheap and it even have a S-video so it easy to connect to the projector/TV. No HD but that is ok.

For the case I was looking and find the Antec ISK 300-65 but after I have read a article here I'm not so sure anymore.

I can change the fan in the case (to what I have no idea) and I maybe can change the mini-ITX to INTEL D945GSEJT but then I dont have any S-video to the projector/TV (Well I can use VGA but I dont know about that)

In the article they use a Zotac IONITX but they cost almost the dubble what they take here for the D945GCLF2.

I dont know if that is possible but I was thinking about skip the DVD player and add a 3'5" HDD with some kind of rubber suspension if I dont want to have a DVD and going to have the computer as a webserver.

I hope someone can help me with my thought

RoGuE · Post by **RoGuE** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:51 am

it's really hard to read this due to grammar problems

cazz · Post by **cazz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:03 am

sorry is not so easy to write good grammer in english when swedish is my native language

alleycat · Post by **alleycat** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:01 am

Don't worry, I can easily understand it. I'm grateful that people in other countries make the effort to learn English. Unfortunately I don't have a good answer to your questions. Do you really need mini-ITX? It can limit your options, especially if you're on a budget.

ilovejedd · Post by **ilovejedd** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:18 am

The D945GCLF2 is quite a bit more power-hungry than the D945GSEJT. The fan that comes with the D945GCLF2 is also pretty noisy. It's easier to cool the D945GSEJT passively than it is the D945GCLF2.

Neither of the above boards would do you any good as an HTPC. As a webserver, how much load are you expecting? I'm using a netbook (basically same chipset/CPU as D945GSEJT) for PHP testing and it works quite well enough for that. If serving just static files, it's even easier. Unless you're expecting some pretty heavy loads, even an Atom N270 will probably suffice. I remember the online registration server of our school used to run on a PII 450MHz (~10,000 students). On the first two days of registration, it gets pretty bogged down (frequent time-outs), but other than it works fine.

The following thread might give you some ideas:
viewtopic.php?t=54161

However, alleycat makes a good point. You get much more value for your money if you go Micro-ATX. You'll get much better performance from a Micro-ATX build with a $50 CPU and $50 motherboard than you would with any Atom-based build.

Addendum:
If you're planning on just integrating the web server into an HTPC, though, I suggest you do it inside a virtual machine. VirtualBox+Linux distro would probably be good. Obviously, don't use an Atom for this one.

cazz · Post by **cazz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:41 am

alleycat:
Thanks, well I was just thinking about a Mini-ITX because I like to have something little. My flat is not big and I have no place to hide it (If I going to have it as a webserver) and I like to have it so quiet as possible.

ilovejedd:
Well yes I was afraid of that.
I was looking at Zotac ION ITX A Series 330 (If I want to run HD 1080p) and is alot more power-hungry

As a webserver I dont expect so much load. But I work alot with streaming of flash with FLV and MP4 and that take power. But I dont think
I going to have so much visitors at the sametime. I was thinking about running Apache with PHP, GD, MySQL and a SSH server.

I was thinking like this, I like to create a small computer that I can have beside at my desk that is quiet and run it as a webserver. But if I dont like itÂ´I maybe can sell it to a friend that want to have his own HTPC (I have already one, it is big but very quiet)

So I'm not going to have a webserver AND a HTPC at the same time, I already have a HTPC and I dont need another one

Very nice thread you gave me

I can use a Micro-ATX (I have it on my HTPC) but I'm a little afraid it going to be too big and take to much power.

But nothing is impossible that I maybe change my mind.

cazz · Post by **cazz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:50 am

But I can say this, the most important now is to have a webserver, not a HTPC

ilovejedd · Post by **ilovejedd** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:59 am

cazz wrote:Well yes I was afraid of that.
I was looking at Zotac ION ITX A Series 330 (If I want to run HD 1080p) and is alot more power-hungry

As a webserver I dont expect so much load. But I work alot with streaming of flash with FLV and MP4 and that take power. But I dont think
I going to have so much visitors at the sametime. I was thinking about running Apache with PHP, GD, MySQL and a SSH server.

Iirc, the Zotac uses less power than the D945GCLF2 from reviews. I haven't really tested my build for power consumption, though. If you're serving/streaming static FLV and MP4 files and not doing any live transcoding, then no, they don't take much power. It's almost the same as serving plain text/html files. Remember, all the decoding is done on the user's computer and not the server. If you're doing any transcoding, though, then stop now - the Atom would do you no good even if you only have one visitor.

By the way, what's your internet connection? Unless you've got a big pipe, I kinda think you'll max your bandwidth before you can even begin to stress the webserver's hardware.

cazz wrote:I was thinking like this, I like to create a small computer that I can have beside at my desk that is quiet and run it as a webserver. But if I dont like itÂ´I maybe can sell it to a friend that want to have his own HTPC (I have already one, it is big but very quiet)

So I'm not going to have a webserver AND a HTPC at the same time, I already have a HTPC and I dont need another one

Even if you go with the IONITX, I wouldn't recommend selling it to your friend as an HTPC. There's a lot of things it can't do that a Core- or Athlon X2-based build or higher will have no problem with.

Since you already have an HTPC, though, why not install VirtualBox and create a virtual machine with Apache/PHP/MySQL/SSH/etc?

cazz wrote:I can use a Micro-ATX (I have it on my HTPC) but I'm a little afraid it going to be too big and take to much power.

Assuming you don't need a gazillion hard drives, you can find fairly compact Micro-ATX cases, too. Not as small as Mini-ITX, but unless you're really pressed for space (as I am), then it's possible to build a relatively tiny Micro-ATX computer.

cazz · Post by **cazz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:32 am

ilovejedd wrote:By the way, what's your internet connection? Unless you've got a big pipe, I kinda think you'll max your bandwidth before you can even begin to stress the webserver's hardware.

I have fiber so bandwidth is no problem for me.

ilovejedd wrote:Since you already have an HTPC, though, why not install VirtualBox and create a virtual machine with Apache/PHP/MySQL/SSH/etc?

I like to have my HTPC as just HTPC and nothing more, Clean and nice

and I dont always have my HTPC on.

ilovejedd wrote:Assuming you don't need a gazillion hard drives, you can find fairly compact Micro-ATX cases, too. Not as small as Mini-ITX, but unless you're really pressed for space (as I am), then it's possible to build a relatively tiny Micro-ATX computer.

No I dont need so big hard drive.
I just need some help about what to buy so I can create a nice webserver. I dont care if it is Micro-ATX or mini-ITX, I just need a server
that is small and quiet

cazz · Post by **cazz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:58 am

I'm sorry if it seem to that I dont listen but I just want to be clear about something.

If I want to have a webserver and not a HTPC, is a mini-itx a good idea?
or if that is still a bad idea.

I have no problem to buy and use a Micro-ATX to webserver but I just want to know

/Update
What I have read that many people have problem with the flow of air to cool down the mini-atx because the case is to small and have no good fan.
And that is not a good idea if I going to have a server on 24/7

I like to have a small computer but I can't have one that is not reliable and quiet. So I maybe going to buy a small but nice case and a micro-atx
Maybe a good barebones

ilovejedd · Post by **ilovejedd** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:45 am

cazz wrote:I have fiber so bandwidth is no problem for me.

As mentioned, you'd probably max out your bandwidth before you stress the webserver - even if it is fiber. Hmm, first hardware limitation you'll hit is probably the hard drive speed. Again, just don't use the webserver for any transcoding jobs and you should be fine. All FLV and MP4 files should already be transcoded before you put it in the webserver.

cazz wrote:If I want to have a webserver and not a HTPC, is a mini-itx a good idea?
or if that is still a bad idea.

Not sure if I'd call it good or bad, but it certainly is possible. For something that won't see much load, even an Atom would more than suffice. I'm running two virtual machine instances with Apache/PHP on a build using a D945GCLF2 board. That's with VirtualPC 2007 with Windows XP host and Windows XP guest. If you use native Linux, then the webserver's bound to be much faster.

cazz · Post by **cazz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:58 am

ilovejedd wrote:As mentioned, you'd probably max out your bandwidth before you stress the webserver - even if it is fiber. Hmm, first hardware limitation you'll hit is probably the hard drive speed. Again, just don't use the webserver for any transcoding jobs and you should be fine. All FLV and MP4 files should already be transcoded before you put it in the webserver.

Yes that is true, I always trancoded my file on my big computer before I upload them.

ilovejedd wrote: Not sure if I'd call it good or bad, but it certainly is possible. For something that won't see much load, even an Atom would more than suffice. I'm running two virtual machine instances with Apache/PHP on a build using a D945GCLF2 board. That's with VirtualPC 2007 with Windows XP host and Windows XP guest. If you use native Linux, then the webserver's bound to be much faster.

WOW, you are using a D945GCLF2 and have a winXP at host and a WinXP as a guest with VPC2007 and it work, that I'm impress.
Yes I was thinking about install Xubuntu (I like sometime work in GUI and not always in a terminal)

well if I going to use mini-itx it going to be between
Intel D945GCLF2
Intel D945GSEJT

I think the "Zotac ION ITX A Series 330" is a little to exaggerate for a server

ilovejedd · Post by **ilovejedd** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:38 pm

cazz wrote:WOW, you are using a D945GCLF2 and have a winXP at host and a WinXP as a guest with VPC2007 and it work, that I'm impress.
Yes I was thinking about install Xubuntu (I like sometime work in GUI and not always in a terminal)

well if I going to use mini-itx it going to be between
Intel D945GCLF2
Intel D945GSEJT

I think the "Zotac ION ITX A Series 330" is a little to exaggerate for a server

Take note, that's two WinXP guests working at the same time.

They're idle for the most part, though and I'm pretty much the only user.

Again, it all depends on how much load you're going to be putting on the webserver. Static files are easy. I've mostly tested with the D945GCLF2. I'm not sure how the D945GSEJT would compare. Though I have a netbook (similar performance to D945GSEJT), I only use it for local code testing. It should be noted that the sample PHP scripts included with XAMPP (GD2, Flash, MySQL, etc) all loaded pretty much instantaneously when loaded from localhost.

cazz · Post by **cazz** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:52 pm

well how much load is not so easy for me to say to be true.

I going to have alot of big JPEG files (~8mb each) FLV and MP4 movies.
Not so many users at the same time but that I can't promise)

That I now is that I'm not going to buy anything before next week so I have sometime to read, search and ask.

right now I was thinking about

Intel D945GCLF2
Corsair Value Select SO-DIMM DDR2 PC5300/667MHz CL5 2GB
Compucase 8K01 100W (Svart/Silver)

I already have hard drive and I dont need any CD/DVD.

Emyr · Post by **Emyr** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:16 am

If it's a server, find a cupboard and don't worry too much about the noise;

I found this whilst searching for "1U" on the eBay's Swedish site:
http://www.tradera.com/Dell-Poweredge-1 ... n_95881156

You should be able to find a good rackmount server for under 1000 Krona (about Â£83, US$137). Don't worry too much about having an actual rack, just a big enough shelf to lay it on.

cazz · Post by **cazz** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:48 am

wow, well if I did have a bigger flat I maybe going to have one like that but I don't.

I think I going to have this

Intel D945GCLF2
Corsair Value Select SO-DIMM DDR2 PC5300/667MHz CL5 2GB
Compucase 8K01 100W (Svart/Silver)

I mean D945GCLF2 have a 1,6 Ghz and that is alot when I have found other have old 1 Ghz or some old P3 as a server and that is no problem.

I did ask one about the case because I was afraid of the fan to the power supply but he did say that he hear more from the hard disk and the big fan he have on the CPU (he have another motherboard)

I have also read that some have remove the little fan from the D945GCLF2 and nothing change if you have a good case so I think I going to do that.

ilovejedd · Post by **ilovejedd** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:37 pm

cazz wrote:wow, well if I did have a bigger flat I maybe going to have one like that but I don't.

I think I going to have this

Intel D945GCLF2
Corsair Value Select SO-DIMM DDR2 PC5300/667MHz CL5 2GB
Compucase 8K01 100W (Svart/Silver)

I mean D945GCLF2 have a 1,6 Ghz and that is alot when I have found other have old 1 Ghz or some old P3 as a server and that is no problem.

I did ask one about the case because I was afraid of the fan to the power supply but he did say that he hear more from the hard disk and the big fan he have on the CPU (he have another motherboard)

I have also read that some have remove the little fan from the D945GCLF2 and nothing change if you have a good case so I think I going to do that.

Before you buy those parts, I'd like to mention the Intel D945GCLF2 uses regular DDR2 SDRAM (desktop memory) and not DDR2 SO-DIMM (notebook).

As for the included 40mm chipset fan, it's pretty loud and unnecessary if you have other sources of airflow.

cazz · Post by **cazz** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:57 pm

ilovejedd wrote:Before you buy those parts, I'd like to mention the Intel D945GCLF2 uses regular DDR2 SDRAM (desktop memory) and not DDR2 SO-DIMM (notebook).

As for the included 40mm chipset fan, it's pretty loud and unnecessary if you have other sources of airflow.

ohh sorry, I did not see that I pick wrong memory