AMD New Radeon 5870, 5850

They make noise, too.

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RDaneel
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Post by RDaneel » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:43 am

PartEleven wrote:
RDaneel wrote:I'm very happy that ATI (unlike nVidia with the new GT300 parts) will be making a smaller chip on a smaller process. My WAG is that the GT300 will run hot.
Yeah at first I was also very disappointed with the GT300. But if you read later on in the Anandtech article, the actual physical die size is a little smaller than the GT200 because of the smaller process, so it's not as bad as I first imagined. Still is a monster chip with monster transistor count though.
That's what I'm concerned with - though I may be totally off base. My (possibly incorrect) assumption was that a higher transistor count meant that it would require more voltage (assuming that transistors have relatively equal power draw on a per-transistor basis). If it needs more juice, won't a smaller die mean it is even more power and thus heat per a given area, making it harder to cool? Just my thinking...

I'm not wed to either company, just hoping that both will view low power consumption as a selling point, and therefore work to reduce it.

trandy1001
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Post by trandy1001 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:36 am

*shameless plug alert*

bjorn3d is having a contest to win a 5850

http://www.bjorn3d.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31126

rpsgc
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Post by rpsgc » Tue Oct 06, 2009 12:44 pm

Hmm... why is the spcr review taking so long to come out?

trandy1001
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Post by trandy1001 » Tue Oct 06, 2009 4:47 pm

Wasn't Mr. Chin at IDF?

I'm not sure, but doesn't Lee normally do a Sunday review?

In any case, I'm sure when it does hit the presses, it should be a good read like always.

BTW I've ordered one, so I'm a little excited to see what they have to say.

ashura
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Post by ashura » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:40 am

Thinking about putting an S1 on the 5850, I looked up naked images of it and the 4850 which we all know to be compatible:

4850: www. dvhardware .net/news/amd_radeon_hd_4850_naked.jpg

5850: www. img97 .imageshack.us/img97/2066/captureto.png

The memory chip location and amount is the same but the VRM section is different. Anyone know offhand just what should be covered by heatsinks?

I can confirm by taking a look at the thermal pads underneath the stock heatsink but I thought I'd check in just in case.

(sorry, had to break links as I don't have 3 posts yet)

ashura
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Post by ashura » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:37 pm

I'm a terrible photographer so I aplogize for the crappy pics in advance. Also apologize again for breaking links. Newegg was awesome and was able to get me the card ASAP:

img29. imageshack.us/img29/1275/img0943an.jpg

Here's the card bare:

img25. imageshack.us/img25/6290/img0944is.jpg

Heatsinks attached, I used a mix of what came with the Accelero S1 and Zerotherm's ZH100:

img25. imageshack.us/img25/5863/img0946nb.jpg

Here's my problem. The heatsink doesn't fit unless I remove the metal and plastic DVI shrouds. I know nothing of how gfx cards work... as someone who will most likely never use the DVI outputs of the card, DisplayPort and HDMI only, will this modification be harmful in any way?

img196. imageshack.us/img196/1189/img0948fz.jpg

JamieG
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Post by JamieG » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:15 pm

You could also consider cutting into the fins on the Accelero instead so they clear the housing. I remember someone here saying they did it with a nail clippers, so it shouldn't be too much work. It might be a safer solution.

So the Accelero S1 Rev 2 fits on the 5850 otherwise? Let us know what temps you get once it is all mounted properly!

ashura
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Post by ashura » Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:29 pm

Ah, I'm such a fool! I should've taken measurements beforehand as the card with the S1 doesn't fit in my Lian Li HTPC case! :oops:

I would gladly cut the fins and let everyone know what temps I get but as I probably will now sell the cooler I don't want to damage it in any way. Sorry I couldn't be of any further help to the community! At least potential 5850 + S1 buyers are aware now that to run the two together requires some modification.

I'll be on the lookout now for a different cooler that can possibly be run passively without requiring as much vertical space as the S1. Possibly a Thermalright solution...

ashura
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Post by ashura » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:08 pm

Some more pics for anyone still interested in trying a 5850 w/ S1:

Image

Image

Image

And one more of the problematic DVI area:

Image

Kaleid
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Post by Kaleid » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:46 am

re:last picture.
Just bend the fins of the cooler.

Good to see that it works.

nutball
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Post by nutball » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:48 am

Still curious to know if it fits with the stock baseplate left in place...

lm
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Post by lm » Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:54 am

RDaneel wrote:That's what I'm concerned with - though I may be totally off base. My (possibly incorrect) assumption was that a higher transistor count meant that it would require more voltage (assuming that transistors have relatively equal power draw on a per-transistor basis). If it needs more juice, won't a smaller die mean it is even more power and thus heat per a given area, making it harder to cool? Just my thinking...
I don't know where you get that voltage thing. You should rather assume that:

1) power draw depends linearly on number of transistors (this is what you meant I guess)

2) power draw decreases with process shrink (for complex reasons)

The net effect of both a process shrink and increase in the amount of transistors is hard to estimate so just wait for the reviews.

RDaneel
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Post by RDaneel » Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:58 am

lm wrote:
1) power draw depends linearly on number of transistors (this is what you meant I guess)

2) power draw decreases with process shrink (for complex reasons)

The net effect of both a process shrink and increase in the amount of transistors is hard to estimate so just wait for the reviews.
Yes, that is exactly what I meant, thanks. That's my GT300 suspicion - which, as I said, is a WAG. Will be interesting to see what is revealed when the reviews are out...

ashura
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Post by ashura » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:05 am

Looking at various VGA heatsinks, it looks like the Thermalright T-Rad² might be a good option given my case size constraints but I can't tell if there will be an issue with the 5850's dual DVI shroud. I've gotten a bunch of pics from various T-Rad on 48xx card reviews and compared it to my 5850 but I still can't tell for sure:

Image
Image
Image
Image


Anyone here have any experience with this cooler and can comment?

DAve_M
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Post by DAve_M » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:38 am

ashura wrote:Anyone here have any experience with this cooler and can comment?
Yes. You can make the S1 fit in a HTPC case by bending the heatpipes.

See here viewtopic.php?t=46721&highlight=accelero++bend#400519


If you do try that, can you also see if it fits with the stock ATI base plate / heat spreader?

Mats
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Post by Mats » Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:43 am

Here's another alternative, in the same thread.

ashura
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Post by ashura » Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:08 am

Mats wrote:Here's another alternative, in the same thread.
From looking at pics of the Twin Turbo, I'm fairly certain it wouldn't work because of the pesky dual DVI.

See this pic: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/fullimag ... mage=12955
DAve_M wrote:
ashura wrote:Anyone here have any experience with this cooler and can comment?
Yes. You can make the S1 fit in a HTPC case by bending the heatpipes.

See here viewtopic.php?t=46721&highlight=accelero++bend#400519


If you do try that, can you also see if it fits with the stock ATI base plate / heat spreader?
Holy moly! That looks nuts... I have to try it. :D

I unfortunately won't have time tonight but tomorrow evening I'll give it a shot and let you know. Thanks for the heads up!

However, I'm not sure what you mean about keeping the stock base plate and heat spreader. The former has to be removed with the stock heatsinks as far as I know.

nutball
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Post by nutball » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:37 am

ashura wrote:However, I'm not sure what you mean about keeping the stock base plate and heat spreader. The former has to be removed with the stock heatsinks as far as I know.
If you look at these pics:

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3

from this article it looks like you can remove the plastic shroud, fan and heat-pipe heat-sink thing whilst leaving the black metal base-plate in place. This should act as a heat-spreader helping to dissipate the heat from the memory. It means disassembling the whole heat-sink assembly, but this should be possible.

Basically what the world wants to know is can an S1 be fitted to the card with the base-plate in place as in Image 3 above.

What's interesting about those pics is that the VRM(s) don't seem to be covered by the base-plate. So maybe that means they don't need as much care and attention as 4870/4890?!

Mats
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Post by Mats » Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:44 am

ashura wrote:From looking at pics of the Twin Turbo, I'm fairly certain it wouldn't work because of the pesky dual DVI.
I was talking about an alternative to the S1, if that one is too tall. I guess both needs some bending of the fins, not really a problem.
Last edited by Mats on Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

ashura
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Post by ashura » Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:07 am

nutball wrote:
ashura wrote:However, I'm not sure what you mean about keeping the stock base plate and heat spreader. The former has to be removed with the stock heatsinks as far as I know.
If you look at these pics:

Image 1
Image 2
Image 3

from this article it looks like you can remove the plastic shroud, fan and heat-pipe heat-sink thing whilst leaving the black metal base-plate in place. This should act as a heat-spreader helping to dissipate the heat from the memory. It means disassembling the whole heat-sink assembly, but this should be possible.

Basically what the world wants to know is can an S1 be fitted to the card with the base-plate in place as in Image 3 above.

What's interesting about those pics is that the VRM(s) don't seem to be covered by the base-plate. So maybe that means they don't need as much care and attention as 4870/4890?!
Ah, so I essentially have to dismantle the shroud, get just the heat spreader and use that with the S1? Sure, I'll give it a shot!

DAve_M
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Post by DAve_M » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:52 pm

nutball wrote:What's interesting about those pics is that the VRM(s) don't seem to be covered by the base-plate. So maybe that means they don't need as much care and attention as 4870/4890?!
I can see a dip in the heat spreader just to the left of that white, exposed part of the VRMs. I'm pretty sure that's the hot part of the VRMs that need cooling (surface mount chips... very small). Leaving the heat spreader on should provide really excellent cooling. So best leave it on since it came with the card anyway.


Edit: on closer inspection it looks more like the hot part of the VRMs are on the right of that white, exposed part.

ashura
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Post by ashura » Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:11 pm

DAve_M wrote:
nutball wrote:What's interesting about those pics is that the VRM(s) don't seem to be covered by the base-plate. So maybe that means they don't need as much care and attention as 4870/4890?!
I can see a dip in the heat spreader just to the left of that white, exposed part of the VRMs. I'm pretty sure that's the hot part of the VRMs that need cooling (surface mount chips... very small). Leaving the heat spreader on should provide really excellent cooling. So best leave it on since it came with the card anyway.


Edit: on closer inspection it looks more like the hot part of the VRMs are on the right of that white, exposed part.
That's correct, from this picture you can see on the underside of the stock heatsink that the VRMs to the right have thermal pads:

Image

alecmg
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Post by alecmg » Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:52 pm

Leaked AMD presentation (here) has all info on specs of new midrange cards coming out oct. 13th

5770: 800SP 850MHz core, 1200MHz 128 bit memory (4800GDDR5)
idle power: 18w load power 108w
5750: 720SP 700 MHz core, 1150MHz 128 bit memory (4600GDDR5)
idle power: 16w load power 86w

basically half of 5870 and 5850 respectively.
oh and price points $159 and $129


Definitely getting the faster one.

trandy1001
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Post by trandy1001 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:39 am

Hey guys, I just got my 5850 yesterday (UPS guy ran late and I wasn't happy about that) mine is a Gigabyte variant. And another treat, I got my Accelero S1 also, which was a nice surprise.

So my first impressions of the card is that it is a heavy peice of technology.

I am not one to purchase "high-end" parts and the heft of the thing was nice. Popped it in and I threw a few games at it (Fallout, L4D, Empire Total War) and it handled them dutifully. A huge update compared to my faithful 4770 to be sure.

Room temp was ~21c . Open workbench. Stressed with ATI overdrive overclock utility and then Furmark

In terms of temperatures, the stock solution was certainly up to the task with temps in the high 40s under load and in the mid 30s idle. I discovered that it exhausts half of its heat out the back and half through side vents in the shroud into the case, so it does provide a "full sized" exhaust outlet. This was at 25% fan speed. However, even at lowest fan speed, it is a bearable hum but not up to SPCR standards. Just for fun I threw it up to 100% fanspeed and that hum turned into a roar, I'd say it was fairly impressive in terms of decibel output. Under load, I didn't see temps go above 41c which is great.

Now with aftermarket cooling, it faired quite well but I have yet to really test it heavily. The Accelero did have some fins bent by the dual DVI connectors to fit, but otherwise installation was easy. I have to immediately point out that a dedicated fan is a necessity from what I've seen as it just kept getting hotter. Even with very little airflow, however, dangerous temps were never achieved. A 500rpm 120mm Scythe managed around 51c under load and with a 1200rpm scythe the numbers were better than that of the stock cooler at 100% (~39c under load).

I am confident that the card runs cool enough to make for an stunningly good quiet gaming platform.

On a side note, I don't know about the cooling needs of the VRM chips as I could not target them for temp measurements. I got the S1 heatsinks to stick but not very well. And these chips might be of issue in a low airflow cooling environment. Luckily, it looks as if it is compatible with any of the VRM cooling products from the likes of Zalman and Thermalright. I'll order one eventually to see whether they will fit with or without modification.

Will update with more impressions and info when I get the time to test it more thoroughly. Spent time that my girlfriend will appreciate for sure ;).

Many thanks to my Alissa for putting up with my computeryness.

Downtown1
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Post by Downtown1 » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:38 pm

So is it going to be possible at all to build a "silent"/very quiet PC with a 5870? I want to make a new PC and desperately need it to also have 3x24" monitors so I can run EyeFinity (which means I'll need the power of the 5870).

(OTOH the 57xx series looks like they might be a nice fit into my already-quiet HTPC)

DAve_M
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Post by DAve_M » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:52 am

trandy1001 wrote:On a side note, I don't know about the cooling needs of the VRM chips as I could not target them for temp measurements. I got the S1 heatsinks to stick but not very well. And these chips might be of issue in a low airflow cooling environment. Luckily, it looks as if it is compatible with any of the VRM cooling products from the likes of Zalman and Thermalright. I'll order one eventually to see whether they will fit with or without modification.
Why don't you just use the stock base plate as we have been discussing just a few posts ago? It should cool the VRM and RAM easily...

falcon26
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Post by falcon26 » Sat Oct 10, 2009 8:51 am

So the S1 and the twin turbo fit on the 5870? It must be a ghetto mod for it to work. I'll probably wait for artic cooling or thermalright to come out with an official cooler for the 5870. I don't want to jack up my $400 card. I actually thing the stock cooler is faitly quiet and cools very well..

webdev511
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Post by webdev511 » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:47 am

Just wanted to throw in my two cents. I've been running a PowerColor 3870 (AX version with the non reference cooler) for nearly two years and just upgraded to a Sapphire 5850 last night. I am positive that it isn't louder than the 3870 and the fact that I can bump World in Conflict up to 1900x1200 high quality without dropping frames is very nice.

Hopefully the rest of the mid-high range 5700's will continue to have the ability to bitstream lossless audio over HDMI. It would make the selection of a 5770 for an HTPC a lot easier.

nutball
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Post by nutball » Mon Oct 12, 2009 11:28 pm

Well, 5850s popped into stock at UK e-tailers for about twenty minutes yesterday morning (damn these flaccid launches!). I managed to grab my credit card in time. Should be arriving today with luck!

akromatic
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Post by akromatic » Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:32 am

what im dieing to find out is if the 5870 can operate semi passively with the S1

ie slap a S1 on it without any cooling fan and have a front intake 120mm fan blowing 1-2mm behind it

basically i want to have a pair of 5870 in the SG03 and use its front intake as cooling fan

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